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[The Baconer]

Whoever it is, it isn't Fen'Harel.

[DanielCofour]

Because demons in DA are just reflection of mortal emotions, fixated on a single idea.  Demons are, by definition, not complex.

 

True, most codex entries seem to indicate this. Except that there is Imshael in Masked Empire. A complex demon. The lore of Dragon Age is intentionally pretty ambiguous, so don't take anything you read or hear as gospel. 

[godModeAlpha]

I'm thinking Corypheus and his gang

[Heimdall]

True, most codex entries seem to indicate this. Except that there is Imshael in Masked Empire. A complex demon. The lore of Dragon Age is intentionally pretty ambiguous, so don't take anything you read or hear as gospel. 

Most of our encounters with demons indicate this.  Imshael isn't truly complex, he only appears to be because he acts on other people's choices hoping it will lead to chaos.

[Nyeredzi]

I believe that the main "villain" is connected to the Venatori. He is a misunderstood antagonist, who's goal is to end the mage/non-mage conflict permanently by turning every mundane being on Thedas into Mages.

 

This is because magic cannot be taken away without causing tranquility, and new mages will be born. He will do this by getting rid of the veil, so he can expose every mundane, none-magical being in Thedas to magic. Making the "change" that we have been hearing about from Sandal, and other characters like Morrigan, and Flemeth, possible.

 

I will tell you why he is a male. But first read Sandal's prophecy, and watch the Dragon Age Inquisition Pax Demo 24:34

 

Sandal says: "When he rises, everyone will see."

This of course can be referring to the Inquisitor who can be male or female, but the inquisitor isn't the one who caused the veil tear, or the one making this change in the world. He's trying to find the guy doing this.

 

During the pax demo, the Venatori Enchanter yelled out: "He will reign!"

 

We don't know what caused the veil tear, but we do know that the inquisitor was there, and that he has a choice; to stand against the closing darkness/change, or leave this world to its bitter "end"/ to accept the change

[Herr Uhl]

The beings with the most incentive to tear the fade would be demons. I'm expecting it to be one of the most ancient unchanging demons.

[leaguer of one]

It's been too long for anything of any elder to be left. This isn't like Javik or something, it's not air tight and the elder elf isn't frozen. Any elf who entered that centuries ago or even thousands of years ago will be dust by now.

We don't know that. Give their is a massive want for the elven mirror's for some reason it would mean their is a chance.

[leaguer of one]

I think it one of the unbounded. They are the oldest known demons/spirits with great power.

[DanielCofour]

Most of our encounters with demons indicate this.  Imshael isn't truly complex, he only appears to be because he acts on other people's choices hoping it will lead to chaos.

 

I'm a bit confused as to what it is you consider complex. He gives them those choices. He anticipates which one they will take. And besides that, he butchers the dalish camp, no choices. He kills Fellasan, no choices. And it's not chaos he wants. When he gave the choice to Michel, his reason was freedom, when he butchered the elven camp, his reason was revenge. And his ultimate goal is not clear at all. From what I've read, that demon is a classic case of a psychopath. And psychopaths are nothing if not complex. Again, you're basing this, literally, on made-up hearsay. It is entirely possible that complex demons exist, and one of them is the Elder One. 

[leaguer of one]

I'm a bit confused as to what it is you consider complex. He gives them those choices. He anticipates which one they will take. And besides that, he butchers the dalish camp, no choices. He kills Fellasan, no choices. And it's not chaos he wants. When he gave the choice to Michel, his reason was freedom, when he butchered the elven camp, his reason was revenge. And his ultimate goal is not clear at all. From what I've read, that demon is a classic case of a psychopath. And psychopaths are nothing if not complex. Again, you're basing this, literally, on made-up hearsay. It is entirely possible that complex demons exist, and one of them is the Elder One. 

Demons are not psychopaths. They are preditors. They feed on the emotions and life force of the people on this plan. Each demon has a specific emotion or trait they feed off. They are not  crazy beings killing people for satisfaction, they are tiger hunting and feeding off of livestock.

[Heimdall]

I'm a bit confused as to what it is you consider complex. He gives them those choices. He anticipates which one they will take. And besides that, he butchers the dalish camp, no choices. He kills Fellasan, no choices. From what I've read, that demon is a classic case of a psychopath. And psychopaths are nothing but complex. Again, you're basing this, literally, on made-up hearsay. It is entirely possible that complex demons exist, and one of them is the Elder One. 

I'm not, I'm basing it off of every demon we've ever encountered in game.  Every single one of them has been hellbent on executing and pursuing a single idea.  Imshael killed the clan because they imprisoned him, there's nothing complex about that.  Beyond that, he only follows through mortal choices hoping they lead to interesting conclusions and mayhem.  He's inhuman, but not complex.  His particular predation (choice) may be somewhat more nuanced than the average rage/desire/pride demon, but that's all he is, a predator obsessed with a single idea like any other demon we've encountered or heard of.

 

A demon can only ever embody an aspect of mortal thought.  The complex whole is what I'm interested in.

[DanielCofour]

 

I believe that the main "villain" is connected to the Venatori. He is a misunderstood antagonist, who's goal is to end the mage/non-mage conflict permanently by turning every mundane being on Thedas into Mages.

 

Not likely. This conflict goes waaay beyond the mage-templar conflict. It involves the darkspawn, civil wars, actual wars. The Venatori are but one faction of Tevinter mages. And a single mage, no matter how powerful cannot destroy the entirety of the veil. It is far more likely to be an ancient demon. And sundering the veil will not cause everyone to become a mage. It will cause demons to pour through. That is not going to solve the mages' problem.

 

Demons are not psychopaths. They are preditors. They feed on the emotions and life force of the people on this plan. Each demon has a specific emotion or trait they feed off. They are not  crazy beings killing people for satisfaction, they are tiger hunting and feeding off of livestock.

 

Do you mind reading the comment before replying to one? This statement is exactly what we're debating. I'm not talking about demons in general. I'm talking about one specific demon/spirit. And besides I don't know where you got that idea that they're "feeding" on people. They're not "predators". They're simply imitating human emotion. I wasn't saying that this demon was a psychopath, I saying he acted like one. And what the argument was about is whether this one demon was complex and if there are complex demons. Not what demons in general are. 

[Narosian]

whoever it was was big enough to shake the castle (or at least the part they were in) and make a loud noise.

[BloodyTalon]

Would say one of the forbidden ones but they all have genders right?

But what if its the chief god of the old gods, the ones the marker sent to rest given all the old gods are dragons, maybe one didn't get imprison and is now back,

[WardenKing]

Flemeth most likely, she is behind all of this I think. She has been putting things in motion since Dragon Age Origins.

[leaguer of one]

 

 

 

Do you mind reading the comment before replying to one? This statement is exactly what we're debating. I'm not talking about demons in general. I'm talking about one specific demon/spirit. And besides I don't know where you got that idea that they're "feeding" on people. They're not "predators". They're simply imitating human emotion. I wasn't saying that this demon was a psychopath, I saying he acted like one. And what the argument was about is whether this one demon was complex and if there are complex demons. Not what demons in general are. 

They are feeding off people. We the desire demon in dragon origin in the mage tower. The hunger demon in the Forrest. Cole with the emotion of despair. and every other demon that has not possessed anyone. They need to feed off the being of this plan to say her if they are not bounded to any thing or they go back to the fade.

Ishael is the same way he is interest in a specific emotion and trait and nothing else. The issue with conflict with demons is what they eat and the lack of control when they gouge themselves.

[leaguer of one]

Would say one of the forbidden ones but they all have genders right?

But what if its the chief god of the old gods, the ones the marker sent to rest given all the old gods are dragons, maybe one didn't get imprison and is now back,

The formless one, an unbounded, has no gender.

[BloodyTalon]

The formless one, an unbounded, has no gender.

Thanks half alseep, which of the forbidden ones is the eldest or unkown?

[Heimdall]

An addition to my previous idea about an ancient elf, part of the reason I came to that conclusion was the hints about ancient elven influence we've been hearing.  We've heard about investigating ancient elven ruins, we'll be exploring the dales, there's the Eluvian network active again, Felassan and his mysterious master...  Something must be going on there.

[Heimdall]

Thanks half alseep, which of the forbidden ones is the eldest or unkown?

None are "Eldest" as far as we know.  We just know that they're old and powerful demons.  The Formless One, just happens to be the one we haven't encountered in any media.

[Burricho]

Wellll I guess the masked empire has now been spoiled.

[Nyeredzi]

whoever it was was big enough to shake the castle (or at least the part they were in) and make a loud noise.

It was a pride spirit

[BloodyTalon]

Flemeth most likely, she is behind all of this I think. She has been putting things in motion since Dragon Age Origins.

She asscoites herself has female is the thing, and the elder one is being talked about has an it.

Unless her true forum is genderless, always thought she had some sort of different demon in her and they become something different and melded, or she is honestly an eold god.

[Revelat0]

When Leliana says "The Elder One..." you can hear what sounds like a dragon flying over and screaming, that is as much as I can infer anyway. As for speculating, I am gonna go with Flemeth.

[Nyeredzi]

None are "Eldest" as far as we know.  We just know that they're old and powerful demons.  The Formless One, just happens to be the one we haven't encountered in any media.

i'ts Flemeth, or maybe "Cole"