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My party members keep dying and more, i need some help.


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#1
Moonwalker1982

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Hey all,

 

So i recently started with DA2 and after starting a new game a few times, cause i could not decide if i wanted to be rogue,mage or warrior, i ended up with a mage.

 

I need some general tips and advice on:

 

- What are the recommended talent trees? I mostly have been using Elemental for my mage, like Fireball and Pyromancer, Winter's grasp. Primal like Chain lightning and upgrade and Stonefist. But there are many to choose from...which is the most fun and best to use?

 

- I made Anders so he will heal party members, but he's not doing much of a good job at that. Why is this?

 

- What should i spend my money on? Is it recommended to buy good armor/robes for my mage or a better staff? Or will i find that on my travels?

 

The biggest problem so far is...when in combat (storywise i have done the Dalish Elves mountain part, Merrill etc.) i stand from a distance and use my magic on foes, but my other party members: Varric and Merril get killed incredibly easily and way too fast. Anders should be going to them and healing them, but most of the time it's too late. Which mostly means it ends up with me and Anders as the survivers. In early boss fights (dragon for example) it even happened that they all died and it was up to me.

 

I am used to RPGs where it's just you...you know...The Witcher, The Elder Scrolls. Now i have a party at my disposal and i am wondering what's the best way to play this. Is it adviceable to switch between characters a lot?

 

So yeah...some general advice on how to make this work, cause man...they just keep dying before i know it. Lol.



#2
Taki17

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First of all, you're going to need a good party setup: warrior tank, healer mage, archer rogue are a must, since it seems  you are playing as a damage dealer mage.

 

Your best bet for a tank is a sword & shield warrior, like Aveline. For her, you should focus on the Weapon and Shield and Defender talent trees, as well her unique talents in the Guardian tree. She's going to need every ability that draws enemy attention towards her and increases her defense. Immovable, Shield Defense, Stone Wall and Turn the blade are all great for defensive purposes. As for drawing enemy attention, you'll need taunt, and the aggressive or the tank behaviour in tactics.Set her tactics to rush in first, activate her defensive abilities and draw attention away from party members if they are being attacked. As for the skill points, you should increase strenght, dexterity and constitution. Give her the best shield and sword you find, and choose the trinkets which increase armor and defense.

 

For a healer mage - Anders in this case - you should focus on Arcane, Creation and Vengeance trees. Mind Blast from Arcane is useful for stunning enemies and reducing threat on your healer. Crushing prison is recommended, but not essential for Anders. From Creation, Healing is naturally essential, you should set the tactics to heal party members and himself if ther health drops below 50%. The other useful spell from creation is Heroic Aura, which is also useful in keeping your party alive. The glyphs are also useful. From Vengeance tree, you should evolve Panacea and the two spells that come with it, but usually you don't have to keep Panace active during regular fights, just prolonged or boss encounters, or when your party is really taking a beating, The Vengeance tree can be ignored, if you are building a healer. At level ups, spend points to magic and willpower.

 

For Varric, the Archer rogue, I'd recommend the following trees: Bianca, Marksman, Sabotage and Suberfuge/Scoundrel for threat reduction (Armistice or Evasion). The rogue is going to be a damage dealer, so you should spend your points to dexterity and cunning, From the Marksman tree, you should keep Bianca's Song active at all times, it gives Varric a good chance to hit his target and deal critical damage. From the Sabotage tree, you should have Miasmic flask by default, use it on clustered enemies to stun them and give your mages a chance to nuke them freely. From the Archery tree, go for everything and use them according to situation, the descriptions should tell you what the abilities do.

 

And as for your mage, with this party setup it should be a damage dealer & debilitator. You're going to need the Elemental, Primal, Spirit, Arcane and Entropy trees. First, you should use the abilites that weaken your opponents, and for doing this, the Entropy & Spirit trees are your best friends. Entropy spells are all useful, and you should also get Walking Bomb from the spirit tree, it can work wonders on groups of lesser enemies. From Primal, you should get Stonefist, Chain Lightning and Tempest; from Elemental, you can choose everything, those abilites usally the best damage dealers. From Arcane, Crushing Prison and Mind Blast are recommended. A generally good tactic for damage dealer mages is casting hexes and curses on enemies, then nuking them with powerful Primal and Elemental Spells.

 

Giving some basic healing spells to your mage makes Anders not so essential in every fight, so sometimes you can replace him with Fenris or Isabela to maximize your damage output. But never-ever remove the tank from your party, otherwise you are as good as dead on higher difficulties.

 

I think that's all. Following this guide and setting your party tactics accordingly should get you through the game. English is not my mother tongue, sorry for any grammar mistakes. Also, if something is not clear or you need more help, let me know.


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#3
Moonwalker1982

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Fantastic reply. Very very helpful. I will definitely use this.  One more thing, when i go to the character screen, i can choose tactics. Should i leave this as it is? Here i can actually select that a warrior is going to be a tank. I know i should change it for Anders for healing, but should i change other things there or leave it?

 

And when i've set the abilities for the party members, will they just use those talents automatically and wisely when i am not controlling them? For example will Anders know when to use Mind blast?

 

EDIT

 

I went into the tactics screen for Anders and now it says:

 

Ally: Health < 50%

Self: Health <50 %

 

Should be good, right?



#4
Taki17

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If you are not so familiar with tactics, you can always choose a preset for them, accordingly to their roles. Don't forget to change behaviours too. The tank should get the tank or the aggressive, the mages the caoutius or passive (we'll want to keep them out of melee combat, after all), the archer the ranged, and any other melee fighters the default behaviour.

 

You can also tailor your tactics to your liking, a generally good method is to take one of the presets and change some things according to your preferences.

 

General tactics for tank (in order of priority):

Activate sustained defensive ability

Taunt enemy if it is attacking an other party member

Use offensive ability on nearest enemy

 

General tactics for healer:

Heal ally if ally health <50%

Heal self if self health <50%

Activate sustained defensive ability

Use mind blast if attacked/surrounded

Use offensive ability on nearest enemy

 

General tactics for damage dealer mage:

Use hexes and curses on enemies with highest health/rank

Use non-AOE offensive abilities on previously cursed enemies

Use mind blast if attacked/surrounded

/*I would not recommend setting any area-of-effect spells to tactics, those should be used manually for maximum effectiveness*/

 

General tactics for rogue archer:

Use stunning/weakening ability

Activate sustained offensive ability

Use Evasion/Armistice if attacked in melee combat

Unleash offensive abilites

/*Again, I would not recommend setting any area-of-effect abilites to tactics, those should be used manually for maximum effectiveness*/

 

Those above are just a rough draft of tactics, but they generally served me well as tactics core components, feel free to experiment and add your own.


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#5
Taki17

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I went into the tactics screen for Anders and now it says:

 

Ally: Health < 50%

Self: Health <50 %

 

Should be good, right?

Yeah, that is a good start, but you should expand it based on the tactics I wrote in the previous post of mine. The party members won't use the abilites themselves if you don't set them it tactics.



#6
Moonwalker1982

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I made photos of how the tactics screen for my characters look. I have been using two mages for a while, so no Varric, But i probably will add him soon. But for some stupid reason i cannot copy and paste links to pictures here...so.....

 

Aveline

 

Tank

Defender

 

1- Ally being attacked by melee attack : Taunt

2- Self surrounded by at least two enemies: Stonewall

3- Self surrounded by no enemies: deactivate shield defense

4- self surrounded by at least three enemies:  activate shield defense

5- self being attacked by melee or ranged attack: activate turn blade

6- enemy : any : shield bash

7- ally being attacked by a ranged or magic attack: taunt

8- enemy: target rank is normal or higher: Assault

 

Hawke

 

Agressive

Damager

 

1- Enemy clustered with at least three enemies: Chain lightning

2- Self surrounded by at least two enemies: Mind blast

3- Enemy: Clustered with at least two enemies : Fireball

4-Enemy: any: Stonefist

5- Enemy: any: Winter's grasp

 

Merrill

 

Default

Controller

 

1- Self: any : activate wrath of the elven

2- Self: any: activate rock armor

3- Enemy: target rank is elite or higher: horror

4- Enemy target rank is normal or higher: Horror

5- Enemy: any: Stonefist

6- Enemy: any: Spirit bolt

 

Anders

 

Cautious

custom

 

1- Self surrounded by at least two enemies: mind blast

2- Self surrounded by at least two enemies: Glyph of repulsion

3- Self: any: Heroic aura

4- Ally health 50% : heal

5- Self health 50% : heal

6- Enemy: any: Winter's grasp

 

If you could take a look at these and tell me if they are alright. Something is telling me Merrill should not be a controller preset, but i could be wrong.

 

 



#7
Taki17

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I would use the following tactics, based on the ones you described:

 

Aveline: behaviour Tank

1 - Enemy: Any - Shield defense

2 - Ally being attacked by melee attack - Taunt

3 - Ally being attacked by a ranged or magic attack - Taunt

4 - Self: Surrounded by at least two enemies - Stonewall

5 - Enemy: Any - Shield Bash

6 - Enemy: target rank is normal or higher - Assault

 

Hawke: behaviour Cautious/Passive

1- Enemy: any - Stonefist

2 - Enemy: any - Winter's grasp

3 - Self: surrounded by at least two enemies - Mind Blast

4 - Self: being attacked by melee attack - Mind Blast

/*Use the AOE attacks like Fireball manually*/

 

Merrill: behaviour Cautious/Passive

Tactics #1, if you do not wish to use blood magic:

1- Self: any - Activate wrath of the elven

2- Self: any - Activate rock armor

3- Enemy: highest health - horror

5- Enemy: any: Stonefist

6- Enemy: any: Spirit bolt

Tactics #2, if you use blood magic:

1- Self: any - Activate Blood Magic

2- Self: any - Activate rock armor

3- Enemy: highest health - horror

5- Enemy: any: Stonefist

6- Enemy: any: Spirit bolt

 

Anders: behaviour Cautious/Passive

1 - Ally health <50% - heal

2 - Self health <50% - heal

3 - Self: any - Heroic aura

4 - Self surrounded by at least two enemies - Mind Blast

5 - Enemy: any - Winter's grasp

/*Use glyph of repulsion manually*/

 

I'd recommend teaching Merrill Entropy spells and Anders Panacea spells from the Vengeance tree. But it would help more if I knew what abilities and spells your characthers currently know.


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#8
Moonwalker1982

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Again, awesome help. I am sure this is going to help me a whole lot in Inquisition too when it comes out. A lot of this makes sense, but it's still something i have to learn and get used to. I changed the tactics that what you said.

 

As for the abilities my characters know

 

Hawke has:

 

Mindblast

Winter's grasp

Stonefist

Chain lightning

Fireball

Summon Mabari

 

Merrill has:

 

Stonefist

Hex of torment

Spirit bolt

Chain lightning

Horror

Wrath of the elvhen

Blood of the first

Rock armor

 

Anders has:

 

Mind blast

Heal

Winter's grasp

Glyph of paralysis

Glypsh of repulsion

Heroic aura

Panacea

Aveline has:

 

Taunt

Shield bash

Assault

Stonewall

Shield Defense

Turn the blade



#9
Kreator_Wrex

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In addition to what Taki has been saying. This might also be helpful for you.

 

For your mages, it's not a bad idea to have them look out for each other and your rogues, particularly if you're using one that's an archer, you'll want to put these high on your list:

  • Enemy: Attacking - rogue/mage - Stonefist
  • Enemy: Attacking - rogue/mage - Kickback
  • Enemy: Attacking - rogue/mage - Winter's Grasp
  • Enemy: Attacking - rogue/mage - Horror
  • Enemy: Attacking - rogue/mage - Attack (for your warriors and melee rogues)

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#10
Moonwalker1982

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Ok i will keep that in mind. I made a mistake when it comes to the warrior in my party. She still has to cope with sword that does like 5 damage and thus she dies very very soon in fights. I will up her strength as soon as i can so she can wield a much better sword. Although i'll probably have to buy a sword then.

 

Right now i don't have a rogue in my party, but i might add Varric back later. What is a good tactic list for him?



#11
SofaJockey

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I think Taki17's responses are probably the most generous and helpful responses I have ever seem on the BioWare Forum.

Prima or one of the game guide companies should immediately hire Taki17.

 

I might also respectfully suggest to Moonwalker1982 that there is a limit to the amount of 'tell me everything' information it is appropriate to seek from the forum without having spent some time reviewing the BioWare forum search function and mining the depth of information already shared on these pages.

 

I feel a little mean spirited in the face of Taki17's (and Kreator_Wrex's) kind assistance to say it, but there it is.


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#12
Taki17

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Right now i don't have a rogue in my party, but i might add Varric back later. What is a good tactic list for him?

Sorry for the late response, I went out and had some beer with my friends. Anyway, here's what I recommend for Varric:

 

behaviour: Ranged

1 - Enemy: Any - Activate Bianca's Song

2 - Self: Being attacked by melee attack - Evasion/Armistice

3 - Enemy: Target using melee attack - Pinning shot

4 - Enemy: Target rank normal or lesser - Archer's Lance

5 - Enemy: Highest health - Ryhming Triplet

6 - Enemy: Nearst Visible - Kickback

 

Plus, you should use Miasmic Flask, Bursting Arrow and Hail of Arrows manually on clustered enemies.

 

(note that these tactics are for a high level Varric, so you might don't have some of these abilities yet)



#13
Taki17

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I think Taki17's responses are probably the most generous and helpful responses I have ever seem on the BioWare Forum.

Prima or one of the game guide companies should immediately hire Taki17.

You sir, are too kind :D Though writing game guides does seem a rather interesting job...



#14
Moonwalker1982

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That's all fine and dandy, but there also another way to look at this. Other people starting with DA2 will find this to be an incredibly helpful thread. Especially if he/she is wondering about the exact same things i was wondering about. That is another way to look at it. :)

 

For some reason quote isn't working for me. So i can't post links...nor i can quote people. I click on the button, but it just doesn't insert the quote. This was meant for SofaJockey.



#15
MagicalMaster

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She still has to cope with sword that does like 5 damage and thus she dies very very soon in fights.

Her having a bad weapon has nothing to do with her dying.  If anything it makes it harder for her to hold threat so she'll be LESS likely to die.



#16
SofaJockey

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That's all fine and dandy, but there also another way to look at this. Other people starting with DA2 will find this to be an incredibly helpful thread. Especially if he/she is wondering about the exact same things i was wondering about. That is another way to look at it.  :)

 

For some reason quote isn't working for me. So i can't post links...nor i can quote people. I click on the button, but it just doesn't insert the quote. This was meant for SofaJockey.

 

The point you make about others benefiting is of course quite correct. It is about balance.

 

As far as quotes are concerned I also find I can't get them to work, but what I do is to take copy of the text immediately before posting, the post comes up empty and I then immediately edit it pasting the copy back in.

 



#17
SofaJockey

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...though writing game guides does seem a rather interesting job...

 

I always thought so.
 

I have never found any articles written by a game guide writer.
I have always wondered how early or late in the day the plot and side quests are locked and hence how quickly the writer has to write the immense guides.

 

EDIT:

Answering my own question, here is an old interview with the author of the DAI Prima guide:

 

http://gaming.suvudu...game-guide.html

 



#18
Tideford

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Eventually you will get two spells to go with Panacea called Aid Allies and Regroup.  While we prefer his regular heal spell, sometimes it is on cooldown.  So I set up my later tactics like this.

 

Ally: health < 25% - Activate Panacea

Ally: health < 25% - Aid Allies

Ally: Dead - Activate Panacea

Ally: Dead - Regroup

 

It is not perfect by any means, but it works.  I just like the health to be less than the tactic that says 50% for the normal heal.  Also, keep in mind that during Panacea he cannot use offensive spells like winters grasp, so you will have to manually click it off to go back offensive.  I hope this helps.


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#19
Moonwalker1982

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@ MagicalMaster

 

Odd. Cause she kept getting demolished just now, and these fights weren't that incredibly hard. Her tactics screen hasn't changed either. Hmmm.



#20
MagicalMaster

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She might not have Immovable enabled, might have less health/armor relative to earlier levels, might be fighting more enemies, etc.  Could be any number of things.

 

But I can guarantee you that her survivability has nothing to do with her weapon.



#21
Kreator_Wrex

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Right now i don't have a rogue in my party, but i might add Varric back later. What is a good tactic list for him?

 

Enemy: Attacking - rougue/mage - Kickback



#22
cJohnOne

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I think shield defense just lowers you offense.  In general you want to maximize offense in DA2.  I tank fine without shield defense.  I also get second wind for more stamina but I guess you could use potions for that but I don't use potion for that , ha ha.  I build Aveline mostly Strength just enough constitution for her shield.



#23
MagicalMaster

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Shield defense is far more than just less offense -- also more threat, more damage resistance, and chance to cause glancing glows.



#24
Magdalena11

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Ok i will keep that in mind. I made a mistake when it comes to the warrior in my party. She still has to cope with sword that does like 5 damage and thus she dies very very soon in fights. I will up her strength as soon as i can so she can wield a much better sword. Although i'll probably have to buy a sword then.

 

Right now i don't have a rogue in my party, but i might add Varric back later. What is a good tactic list for him?

I don't know if it's a mod, but Aveline's starting issue sword levels up with her in my version, and I usually keep it on her for most of the game.  Even at max level, a single-handed weapon isn't going to do more than about 30 points, I think.  I usually go more by the other weapon properties than straight damage and covet those rune slots.  Her biggest value, for me, is holding aggro while others do the real hurting.  She was dying a bunch until I set Anders up to heal the warriors first.  Using the AOE ability she gets later that staggers multiple enemies will set you up beautifullly for the upgraded chain lightning later on.

 

I use cross-class-combos a lot and program them right into tactics as soon as they're available on hard and lower.  Because of friendly fire, I use them selectively on nightmare so Fenris stops with the FF party wipes already.  He does play better with mages and archers than DW rogues, though.  


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#25
Magdalena11

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@ MagicalMaster

 

Odd. Cause she kept getting demolished just now, and these fights weren't that incredibly hard. Her tactics screen hasn't changed either. Hmmm.

I've had many combats have 180 degree different outcomes by doing nothing other than reloading.  Keep an eye on it and focus on keeping her health topped up and she should do fine.  I usually build her weighted toward constitution, as well.