278 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

Theory: Part of the reason the final scene plays out the way it did is because the player picked the wrong combination of party characters.

Sending Leliana on the mission is your choice.
We've been told you can avoid Redcliffe castle entirely.
There are hints that the player made a bad decision before the demo even starts. (Leliana's "You're alive?" when she sees the Inquisitor.)
There are obviously several edits and time skips during the demo.

You're seeing a failure state for a set of player decisions.

[J-Reyno]

Thinking about the right characters to bring along to a quest is important. It is story vital as well as thinking about their abilities, do they work together right. You can't send two healing mages to fight off a demon army

 

It's not random and it is completely controllable if you pick the right people. This mechanic will encourage people to not just take along their favorite character on every single mission, because if they are a bad match with the others, wrong choices are made, they're going to permanently die.

I don't completely agree.  I kind of liked the ending of ME2 where you used common sense to choose the companions for each job.  Choosing the wrong companion would result in something bad happening.  I thought that was pretty neat.  But I wouldn't want to play an entire game where I have to constantly pick different companions for each quest for fear of losing one or another or just having something terrible happen.

 

What I'd be cool with is if I have to make common sense choices independent of my party composition, like choosing whether to send espionage or military agents to some location.  That would be fine.  But I'd like to choose my companions based on other things, like who I favor for combat, or who I want to hear talk as we explore, or who I just like in general.

[AresKeith]

Didn't a dev say she did die based on previous player choices?

[SerCambria358]

Oh? How is she not dead? Are they making our enemies cartoon villains? Pitiful... She should have been torn to pieces if the enemies were smart, and evil, but apparently not

They clearly have their attention set on this amulet, i dont see how not killing one person while in a rush to stop them, concludes that they're cartoon villains

[CamlTowPetttingZoo]

She looked dead, she acted dead, the scenario could easily result in someone being dead, and another poster said a dev mentioned that party members can actually die in the Redcliffe section. So 2 posters have said opposite things, both apparently by a developer and neither posted proof. Seems equal to me.

 

She looked and acted dead yes. Does that necessarily equal death? people that get blind sided by a dirty punch that go out cold look like they could be dead too when they hit the ground. I don't jump to the conclusion that they are though. I never said that she wasn't dead. She very well could be. Saying definitively that she must positively be dead based on this scenario makes no sense. How much editing was done for this demo. You don't know the whole story and neither do I.

[Olessan-]

Paralysis spell?

[MarchWaltz]

Maybe the play-through they were doing was such an epic failure...like your Inquisition level is like 0 or something?

[deuce985]

Haha. It would make sense for this to be a "failure" situation. Bioware definitely throws a ton of red flags up in their games. Usually when these "bad" scenarios happen it's because the player is trying to do it like that or they're a really really bad Inquisitor. It's like the suicide mission in ME2. You kill everyone off in that mission and you just had to try to be the worst Commander mankind has ever laid eyes on. You're a bad leader and an even worse friend!

[BloodyTalon]

Well  they could do more realistic death and have the body release all its contents!

Ok bad joke(though not really a joke), but till we see the third part of the video which have a feeling will confirm how choices go wrong. or right.

[Bob from Accounting]

Sending Leliana on the mission is your choice.

 

But it's only a meaningful choice if the player has a reasonable idea of what will happen when they make it, and if the story reasonably follows through with that expectation.

[Maria Caliban]

But it's only a meaningful choice if the player has a reasonable idea of what will happen when they make it, and if the story reasonably follows through with that expectation.

... and?

Are you assuming that there will be no information given to the player before they make important choices? In a game with three major characters whose job it is to give the PC advise?

[Aggie Punbot]

Goodie, a five-page discussion about Schrodinger's Sera.

[Bob from Accounting]

... and?

Are you assuming that there will be no information given to the player before they make important choices? In a game with three major characters whose job it is to give the PC advise?

 

I don't think the player will be going in blind. But I am somewhat disheartened by the amount of people who advocate such a thing.

[Gannayev of Dreams]

Whether she is dead or not seems like a rather pointless argument.  Nothing short of a Dev making a statement one way or the other can resolve it.  We're never going to know the exact circumstances that create that event, since it was specially cut together for the demo.  Player level, approval with companions, prerequisite conditions... all things that are unlikely to be similar when we ourselves experience that content.

[deuce985]

I don't think the player will be going in blind. But I am somewhat disheartened by the amount of people who advocate such a thing.

 

I don't think you have to worry about that. I'm pretty sure I even read on this forum a dev said they will never throw the player in blind when it comes to choices. I have no proof so don't take that as 100% fact...but I'm fairly confident I remember reading that here awhile back.

[BubbleDncr]

If it is a moment in the game where a companion truly can die - I feel like they would make a bigger moment out of it. 

 

Which makes me think she's just knocked out. 

[Zelanthair]

You better make sure you do things differently than whatever caused the demo's outcome, because Sera is killed in the demo. Posting just in case anyone missed this detail. This also fully confirms that party members can actually die, and not just at the ending like ME2&3. This is going to be an intense game if party members you really like can die unexpectedly to a choice you made. If you doubt she died, check her wide open eyes. People in fiction don't faint with their eyes open.

 

13:24 of the demo of Redcliffe Castle
 

 

 

This has been covered already. Sera's not dead. I do believe you understand the concept of being knocked unconcious, yes? Sera's unconscious

[movieguyabw]

Theory: Part of the reason the final scene plays out the way it did is because the player picked the wrong combination of party characters. Though Iron Bull is powerful, Sera wasn't a good support. Back when ME2 first came out, there was the whole "Mordin glitch" fiasco where people kept having him hold the line and he kept dying. Then finally everyone realized, he was just a bad choice for that part of the mission and it wasn't a glitch.

 

 

I've always wondered why everyone kept saying "don't have Mordin hold the line" at the end.  Never had any problem with that, personally.  If you save everyone else, and make sure you leave enough party members with him who can hold their own, he'll be fine.

 

My point is that it's a decision that actually makes sense.  He's a weaker character, and he would not be able to handle his own in a situation like that, without enough backup.  But most importantly, you are aware of the dangers when making the choice.

 

If this mission is designed so that whoever you bring with you has a possibility of dying at that particular moment, then there would need to be a serious warning prior to beginning the mission.  Because everything we saw was an outcome to a decision we never even saw the Inquisitor make, (sending Leliana on that mission) and never once did the Inquisitor make a choice that affected anything in that confrontation.

 

From everything we've seen, my money's on her being knocked out.  My guess is that they cut right before either Leliana is killed (because we know this is the outcome of sending her on this mission, and her getting captured), or right before the Inquisitor makes a critical decision.  That decision may influence whether or not Sera/Iron Bull die - but I think it's more likely to influence whether or not Leliana does.

 

 

Again, this is purely speculation based on what we saw.  However, I find this scenario *far* more likely than Bioware unceremoniously killing off 2 party members off screen, based on a choice made prior to even starting the mission.  I mean, these aren't Skyrim party members afterall.  The devs have put a lot of effort into developing their personalities, backstories, and character arcs.  If they're going to kill them off, I'm willing to bet its going to be either a very emotional moment, or it's going to be because they reached their crisis point and have turned on you.

[SerCambria358]

It just doesnt make sense to me that a companion would die so suddenly with almost no focus on it

 

If this implies that companions can die at anytime if they dont receive a decent amount of approval then thats going to be an annoying feature because it would mean that we're forced to cater to every single companion in order for them not to die, i might not be a fan of some companions but death seems a bit much only because i didnt show them attention

[deuce985]

This has been covered already. Sera's not dead. I do believe you understand the concept of being knocked unconcious, yes? Sera's unconscious

 

It was confirmed by a dev? Possible link?

[TheCreeper]

I'm pretty postive was showing what would happen if story wise, everything that could have gone with Redcliffe, did. 

[bandcandy]

She's not dead. If a companion is going to be permanently killed off there's going to be more pomp, circumstance, needless chest clutching and famous last words as they go out in a blaze of glory. As opposed to an off screen death combined with a blink-and-you'll-miss-it pan of the camera. 

[Saberchic]

I don't necessarily think they would need to showcase Sera's death more. Perhaps the point of her seemingly pointless death is that it is pointless. So no fanfare there.

[ElementalFury106]

Proof? I want a link, something to know you're not mistaken.

 

Even if, this scene has made me realize that this game is going to have the most mortal and vulnerable party of any Bioware game yet. And that terrifies and hypes me.

 

I'm sure people provided links and proof on that thread of mine, you can find it on my profile. Sorry I'm just too lazy to look stuff up lol.

 

I agree though, that scene really knocked the wind out of my stomach. But I was also super intrigued, I was like thinking "damn these consequences are actually meaningful!." I hope they really do have a lot of thought and meaning to them. 

 

EDIT: nevermind found the post, posted it later in the thread

[Deebo305]

Pretty sure shes just knocked out, otherwise where is IB. Holding the line ain't easy but companion dying in a press demo....nope