55 réponses à ce sujet

[Dayze]

Just thinking at this point; lacking any knowledge of exactly how this would apply either to Fereldan law, medieval law or modern day law.

 

Who exactly owns the urn?

 

I mean; I don't think there are any known descendants of Andraste so I don't think it works from that angle.

 

The Guardian?  Well; if he's actually a spirit he may not have legal rights like we think of.

 

He was left in charge of the guantlet that houses the ashes but does he have legal ownership of them?

 

Though it could be argued it was left to the cult as a whole to guard it and not "just" the spirit.  

 

Then it would ultimately be decided by the group or whoever was in charge of it.  Not counting the dubious nature of The Guardians existence from a legal perspective.

 

That being said; would it be the Cultists who own the ashes?

 

 

 

 

[TheodoricFriede]

I dont think anyone "owns" the Urn, but i imagine the Chantry took control of that mountain shrine.

 

The ashes have been verified by Brother Genitivi, and he is pretty intent on telling the Chantry when you see him last.

 

I dont think anyone in particular owns the ashes, but the Chantry is definitely in control of them.

 

This is, of course, assuming the ashes still exist.

[godModeAlpha]

The only person that can lay claim to the urn is the one who is able to kill the guardian, basically the warden.

The guardians existence is not dubious, how can we explain the fact that he knew every thing about the party members plus how he has lived so long.

The cultist have no claim either.

But politically speaking, I'd say the chantry.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The Maker owns it like any person owns the urn of their deceased spouse. 

[TheodoricFriede]

I dont think anyone would be able to lay claim to the ashes but the Chantry.

 

Its the ashes of Andraste. That lady they all worship.

 

Even if the Cultists has a "legitimate claim" the chantry would ride in and take that whole mountain. The Divine would probably hold an Exalted March for those ashes.

[Reznore57]

The Chantry probably owns the urn, since it's some kind of holy relic.

I'm not sure it has anything to do with law...more who's  willing to fight and kill for it.

[TheodoricFriede]

The chantry isn't necessarily the same thing as Andraste. They just happen to be the most powerful sect. The early days after Andraste had many movements.

 

Even the Guardian calls Wynne out on her need to advise people, saying she's just a mouthpiece for Chantry platitudes. This is a disciple of Andraste, and he still makes note of it.

Im not sure what your point is.

[TheodoricFriede]

The point is that Andraste and the Chantry are not the same thing. They don't own her any more than others. They just happen to be the most powerful.

 

Just like the early Christian church had Jewish, Gnostic, and other early groups surrounding the figure of Jesus, Andraste had many types of followers in the early days well.

Yeah... Im still not sure what your point is.

 

You dont think the Chantry would mobilize an army to take control of those ashes? Ownership doesnt have alot of meaning when you are dealing with a large powerful force.

 

Im not saying the Chantry owns the ashes because they are connected to Andraste, im saying the Chantry is in control of the ashes because they probably sent an army of soldiers, scholars, masons, and priests to take control of that shrine.

[TheodoricFriede]

 

 

I just mean they don't have some magical default ownership.

I never claimed they did.

 

Which is why i initially said that no one "owns" the ashes, but the ashes are probably in the control of the chantry.

[godModeAlpha]

The chantry isn't necessarily the same thing as Andraste. They just happen to be the most powerful sect. The early days after Andraste had many movements.

Even the Guardian calls Wynne out on her need to advise people, saying she's just a mouthpiece for Chantry platitudes. This is a disciple of Andraste, and yet he seems to be outside all of this.

Hmmm you might be on to something there. One can also see similarities between real world religion, say who owns the Garden Tomb in Isreal, where Jesus was buried? Isreal has claim tot the land, so in this case I would say the building with Andrastes ashes is owned by the Ferelden. On the other hand the ashes is owned by the person who is able to defeat the guardian.

Ultimately, Like real world religion if the bones of Jesus are found and retrieved I suspect the guys in Rome would ensure by any means possible that it ends up in their care. So again I somehow think the chantry would claim it.

[bunch1]

No one owns the urn.  Anyone who proves themselves worthy can take a pinch of the ashes and do what they want with them.  I'm curious if they will explain how they even found the temple considering that it was possible to, and I did, kill Brother Genativi so no one should have been able to tell them.  I guess Liliana disregarded my decision to keep it secret to protect the ashes and went and told the chantry them moment the warden disappeared. 

[Wulfram]

The Maker.

[Gervaise]

In at least one of the epilogues the Guardian makes off with the Ashes, whereabouts unknown, so I'd say that ultimately ownership is his.   Effectively traversing the Gauntlet does not give you ownership, just entitlement to be in the presence of the Ashes and take a small pinch.    Since the Guardian has to maintain his vigil until Tevinter finally falls, this would suggest even if you don't see him, he is around to keep an eye on them.    Not sure what the Big Bang does to him but may be he has something to do with the Inquisitor's survival.

[EmperorSahlertz]

No one owns the Urn. The Chantry have probably taken possession of it though. There is a difference.

[Amy326]

If you don't take Genitivi with you to the Temple or you don't kill the High Dragon in the clearing of the mountain, in the epilogue, it says that the Ashes disappear. Noone knows what happens to them. If you do take Genitivi and kill the High Dragon it says the Chantry takes over the Temple and that there is a pilgrimage of people to see the Ashes.

 

In the lore of the game I imagine nobody "owns" the Urn, but the Chantry takes care of it and makes sure no one messes with it.

[x Raizer x]

Well, in my game I killed the high dragon and I took Genetivi, so that means the Chantry technically.  I'd assume they have guards there, and a Chantry built by now.  Genetivi is likely there as well, possibly studying the Urn and the Ashes.

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

It'd be interesting if a Leliana present when you corrupt the ashes only survives your assault because she managed to crawl to the ashes after you left, making it so that Leliana has dragon blood in her. (Do people who drink high dragon blood die? Furthermore is it high dragon blood or wyvern blood that the cult gives you for the ashes? I know they give you wyvern blood for yourself afterwards)

Whoop s I got off topic <___<

[blussi]

By the way, will the urn be safe from explosion at the beginning of the game? 

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

By the way, will the urn be safe from explosion at the beginning of the game?

... what if the explosion was caused just to get the urn for... something

[X Equestris]

It'd be interesting if a Leliana present when you corrupt the ashes only survives your assault because she managed to crawl to the ashes after you left, making it so that Leliana has dragon blood in her. (Do people who drink high dragon blood die? Furthermore is it high dragon blood or wyvern blood that the cult gives you for the ashes? I know they give you wyvern blood for yourself afterwards)
Whoop s I got off topic <___<

I think the blood they give you is dragonling blood, since the codex on dragon cults mentions that the dragon will allow the cultists to kill a few of its young to make reavers with. That raises the question of why they give you the cheap knock-off instead of actual dragon blood. On the point about Leliana, the dragon blood may not have soaked through all of the ashes. Further, are we even sure that the blood destroys the ashes power like Kolgrim says it will?

On topic, the Urn is probably owned, or at least protected, by the Chantry.