I appreciated the way Morrowind concluded. (Spoilers)
*snip*
Oh Morrowind, how I miss thee.
You should cover that up for those of us who have yet to play it, and are still waiting for the mod, Skywind. Not sure if you can do that on this forum though.
Guest_Morrigan_*
You should cover that up for those of us who have yet to play it, and are still waiting for the mod, Skywind. Not sure if you can do that on this forum though.
My apologies. I would have done so, but I've never been able to figure out how to work the spoiler tags on this site.
On a side note, I would just go ahead and play the game in its original state. Skywind, Morroblivion, and all of the other mods are taking an eternity to release, and the game holds up pretty well today. The character models and textures are obviously a bit rough, but the story is f*cking amazing.
I don't know. Once the story ends ... I'm usually not really interested in just running around and doing stuff in the world. I'm mainly playing for the story, and I'll want to experience the world as a part of that. Afterward ... I don't know. It just seems sort of empty MMOish, but maybe they'll have something up their sleeve.
My apologies. I would have done so, but I've never been able to figure out how to work the spoiler tags on this site.
On a side note, I would just go ahead and play the game in its original state. Skywind, Morroblivion, and all of the other mods are taking an eternity to release, and the game holds up pretty well today. The character models and textures are obviously a bit rough, but the story is f*cking amazing.
It's no worries, neither have I, lol.
That said, I was sure that Morroblivion was already finished. They've said that Skywind should be ready by the end of summer, should everything go as planned. But hey, we'll see.
I don't know. Once the story ends ... I'm usually not really interested in just running around and doing stuff in the world. I'm mainly playing for the story, and I'll want to experience the world as a part of that. Afterward ... I don't know. It just seems sort of empty MMOish, but maybe they'll have something up their sleeve.
One can only hope, I suppose.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
After reading that interview now I just hope that they have an ending. I hope that the "we only really want" is exactly what it sounds like... a load of..?
Why would they add quests that are supposed to be done after the main quest? So we can go saving kittens after we save the world and the npcs won't even acknowledge who we are and what we've done?
This is no Skyrim, and even that fails. No one really feels good about beating Anduril because whatever "epic" feeling this fight induces, you forget it in 2 minutes after talking with Parthunaxx for the last time. Cause nothing changes. The world is exactly the same, no one acknowledges your accomplishments and those that do just pat you in the back like you didn't pee outside of the litter box.
I'm totally looking forward to ending the biggest threat the world has ever seen only to go back killing renegade mercenaries and a crazy golem with a combat system that from the demo looks like it gets old by the middle of the game like both previous DA games do.
Just please, end the game. Don't care. Even a pokemon ending will do. The inquisitor kills all the bad guys, his party gets registered in the hall of fame and you get credits and THE END. Best ending.
Not disagreeing that Skyrim's ending couldn't have been better... But if you know and understand the lore it is SO much better. The player character walks in the footsteps of Shor/Lorkhan and fights Alduin at the beginning/end of Time on the spirit plane (because the beginning is the end and vise versa in the Aurbis) in a grandfather paradox. The Last Dragonborn is literally the First.
Not disagreeing that Skyrim's ending couldn't have been better... But if you know and understand the lore it is SO much better. The player character walks in the footsteps of Shor/Lorkhan and fights Alduin at the beginning/end of Time on the spirit plane (because the beginning is the end and vise versa in the Aurbis) in a grandfather paradox. The Last Dragonborn is literally the First.
As cool as that might seem, it literally leaves you cold and alone on a mountain top, staring up at some dragons flying around while another dragon essentially takes Alduin's place. And with the fact that you can't understand any of what they're saying, all of it is sort of lost on you as a player.
Like, it would have been nice if, as the dragonborn, the dragon language was translated for you via text.
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
After reading that interview now I just hope that they have an ending. I hope that the "we only really want" is exactly what it sounds like... a load of..?
Why would they add quests that are supposed to be done after the main quest? So we can go saving kittens after we save the world and the npcs won't even acknowledge who we are and what we've done?
This is no Skyrim, and even that fails. No one really feels good about beating Anduril because whatever "epic" feeling this fight induces, you forget it in 2 minutes after talking with Parthunaxx for the last time. Cause nothing changes. The world is exactly the same, no one acknowledges your accomplishments and those that do just pat you in the back like you didn't pee outside of the litter box.
I'm totally looking forward to ending the biggest threat the world has ever seen only to go back killing renegade mercenaries and a crazy golem with a combat system that from the demo looks like it gets old by the middle of the game like both previous DA games do.
Just please, end the game. Don't care. Even a pokemon ending will do. The inquisitor kills all the bad guys, his party gets registered in the hall of fame and you get credits and THE END. Best ending.
Have you ever played a Final Fantasy game?
My first was Final Fantasy 13. I finished the main plot in about 40 hours. However, I managed to play for about 50 more hours on sidequests and on monsters who were many, many times more powerful than the final "main quest" boss.
Final Fantasy 7 is much the same. I didn't play much after the end of the story, because the combat is painfully bad, but it has a number of enemies, "superbosses" the term is called, that can only be beaten after the story is over.
DA I is doing the same. The dragons are endgame enemies who will be more powerful than the final main quest boss. And there's nothing wrong with that--nothing says that the final main quest boss needs to be the most powerful creature in the world (in fact, that's a critical critical flaw of most RPGs today, the main quest's scope keeps getting blown out of proportion).
I've always been of the opinion that one of DA2s greatest sins regarding the illusion of player agency was its lack of epilogue slides. If it had had epilogue slides, I bet at least 50% of the 'none of my choices meant anything' would have gone away, even if nothing else was changed. Honestly, I could go for or against them in DA:I. I'll be fine either way.
It's entirely feasible that the 'post-game' sections will actually be pre-ending, with the game 'rolling back' to a pre-ending state in the manner of several JRPGs.
DA2 had a different problem. It actually showed consequences. Bioware doesn't get that fans want exclusive, diverse content. To Bioware, having everyone end up in the same place is showing consequences, because they're showing where your actions lead. But players don't just want consequence - they want to feel important, like they changed the world. That's why "your choices don't matter" is the biggest criticism - people think and demand that their actions alter the world substantially.
Every time a developer offers a choice, players except two totally different worldstates. This is why TW2 gets so much praise for how it handles its Act II.
I like when the game continues after the main story. I don't mind the "epilogue slides" at that as a final note, a conclusion but it's not critical to me, it's a nice bonus. But being able to play further and indeed, do something which wasn't done before or was too hard before or play through the new content - that's always a BIG bonus for me. I never liked these "open vast world" games where the game ended as soon as the final quest was done. It felt like "what the heck, all this world, all these options for more details and new content and it just... ended!?"
So in that sense it's cool if they add epilogue slides, let us know how things turned out as a summary. BUT I also would like that the NPC's would be aware of these things and that it's over. Not that I walk past some village and NPC's still say things like "Oh this and that veil is open here and there and world is coming to an end!" - hello you redneck, I saved the world, end's over now. And whenever my char goes everyone would be aware after the main quest end that he is the dude who saved the world, not that they'd still ask their old questions like "who are you" or "whar are you gonna do about it".
I hated the epilogues from DA: O. Super vague and generic, no matter what you did. Would've preferred they simply ended it like KOTOR with possibilities left open.
I really hope the world isn't 'rolled back'. That's how ME2 was, once you beat the game you could keep playing to 'finish up stuff! 
... except I never wanted to do all the pre-stuff based off you not having beaten it yet. I would rather it be an expanded version of what DAO did. DAO, let you kinda walk through (if you where alive) for a last goodbyes kinda thing. If they can manage say, 3 actual big ending world states, **** even 2, just getting to walk around and 'see' how the world was effected by the main story arch? Yeah I'll keep playing for a bit, not sure how long.
If they got some areas that require super high lvl chars, you could get there before the end game, I don't think that'll be a real issue. Though leaving that stuff for after I could see being fun. So far, Skyrim is the only game I didn't give a damn about the game ending. Every other game thats let me play 'after' I beat the main story has never compelled me to keep playing for some reason. But I did in Skyrim for some reason, so, yeah I dunno, curious to see where DAI takes it.
I hated the epilogues from DA: O. Super vague and generic, no matter what you did. Would've preferred they simply ended it like KOTOR with possibilities left open.
Really? I thought they were fairly clear.
Some were specific. Others amounted to "and you ruled together awesomely, because you are awesome".
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
I really hope the world isn't 'rolled back'. That's how ME2 was, once you beat the game you could keep playing to 'finish up stuff!
If they got some areas that require super high lvl chars, you could get there before the end game, I don't think that'll be a real issue. Though leaving that stuff for after I could see being fun. So far, Skyrim is the only game I didn't give a damn about the game ending. Every other game thats let me play 'after' I beat the main story has never compelled me to keep playing for some reason. But I did in Skyrim for some reason, so, yeah I dunno, curious to see where DAI takes it.
Wha? ME2 definitely does not roll back the world state. Rolling back the world state means that the main missions leading up to the ending are magically available again, and that plot is left open in your journal. ME2 didn't do that, it let you back into the world AFTER you finished the mission.
You can see that in the two big DLCs, the Lair of the Shadow Broker and Arrival. If played after beating the game, both DLC reference the ending.
ME3 kind of rolls back the world state. FF 13 rolls back the world state.
In a recent interview, Cameron Lee said:
"So two points on that, one: the game isn’t structured such that you consume an area, then move onto the next, then move onto the next. It’s structured so that we encourage players to go back and forward between these different regions all of the time. Some of the areas in these regions are say too high level for you to get to go there originally -- there might be a dragon there -- so it’s, like, ‘I could go and fight it; I’m going to get killed, but I’m going’, so maybe you come back to that area later on.
But then, when you finish the game, you’re still in the world, so you’re still going to do all of these different things. There’s parts of the game that we’ve built that are so difficult that we would only really want players to go there after they finish the story, because it’s just that high level. So it all sort of changes as you go through the story, and we want people to, as you said, have a lot of longevity in the game."
So this makes me curious as to what it means for our epilogue slides, if we have any at all. For me, I tend to try and complete as many things as I can, before I face the final battle. So it makes me curious as to how this will play out, especially considering games like Skyrim, where simply being left on top of that mountain, felt so lackluster. Then again, that whole last battle also had me soured, given my experience with the end boss of Dragon's Dogma.
That said, I also hope the people of Thedas are aware that the world is saved too, if at all.
How do you guys feel about this?
Hard to say, becouse BioWare never did something like that in a previous games. In TES serie I have always feelings, that my character just living there, so Im going for hunting, study alchemy, going to Academies, join to factions etc, just You know..live there, and Im not forced to do any quest. So I don't care if there is any ending...TES for me are like fantasy Sims. And I don't expect to have emotions, true relationships, etc there. I doubt that Devs could make DA:I this way. For example, we have always in BioWare games interesting companions with a lot of dialogs. How long they will be interesting if DA:I would be like TES games? You can't expect that in game without ending, we will have endless interesting dialogs and interactions with companions, or even LIs. It would end probably blant like in Skyrim ( where I don't care too much becouse I never expected something different). So if after intense gameplay I expect from DA:I, with a ton of interactions and dialogs with my companions, I will stuck with group who have nothing to say, in the world I have nothing to do really ( killing beast I couldn't before becouse of low level isn't rewarding really) I will be very disapoitment. Also there are very slim chances for any interesting mods for DA:I, what usually makes game live longer. It's nice to see that Devs are trying to do something new for them, but it don't fit to theirs style, so no, Im not excited by Cameron Lee words and I would prefer to have true ending for my game, with summary of events and hints about my PC&Co future. Im affraid it would end not so good, similar to mounts, where it's half done without companions using them and without mounted fight. But we will see in October.
maybe this time the game wont have an ending maybe it will pave way for the next story
maybe this time the game wont have an ending maybe it will pave way for the next story
Perhaps. I could imagine it leading into an expansion DLC, which would be nice. God knows there have been a sincere lack of those lately, and it always disappoints me having to wait forever, to continue adventuring in a world I potentially love.
@EntropicAngel: That's... way worse then what I consider rolled back. It's not just the world state prior to the ending ride but also... lets you do the ending line again after doing it already? Well, I dislike the version I said and i REALLY dislike the version you said. I'm very much against either form of rolling back. I want a proper end state.
Hard to say, becouse BioWare never did something like that in a previous games. In TES serie I have always feelings, that my character just living there, so Im going for hunting, study alchemy, going to Academies, join to factions etc, just You know..live there, and Im not forced to do any quest. So I don't care if there is any ending...TES for me are like fantasy Sims. And I don't expect to have emotions, true relationships, etc there. I doubt that Devs could make DA:I this way. For example, we have always in BioWare games interesting companions with a lot of dialogs. How long they will be interesting if DA:I would be like TES games? You can't expect that in game without ending, we will have endless interesting dialogs and interactions with companions, or even LIs. It would end probably blant like in Skyrim ( where I don't care too much becouse I never expected something different). So if after intense gameplay I expect from DA:I, with a ton of interactions and dialogs with my companions, I will stuck with group who have nothing to say, in the world I have nothing to do really ( killing beast I couldn't before becouse of low level isn't rewarding really) I will be very disapoitment. Also there are very slim chances for any interesting mods for DA:I, what usually makes game live longer. It's nice to see that Devs are trying to do something new for them, but it don't fit to theirs style, so no, Im not excited by Cameron Lee words and I would prefer to have true ending for my game, with summary of events and hints about my PC&Co future. Im affraid it would end not so good, similar to mounts, where it's half done without companions using them and without mounted fight. But we will see in October.
Given my experience with the mod for Skyrim that I spoke of earlier, it's very possible to have a character continue to be interesting throughout, as long as they continue to comment on the goings on around them. Interesting NPCs is its own beast though, as quests and such are still being added to this day, and so that connection to the world and the characters it introduces, continue throughout.
So in the instance that quests and such were continually introduced throughout an expansion, etc, I think a lot could be done. But for now, even in a one off, it can still be done well, given that the characters in said mod, even comment on their surroundings and which quests you're on. And if one guy can do that, I think Bioware's team is plenty capable given their larger resources.
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