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What one person finds unfortunate another enjoys
What another person finds interesting another person hates
Its all in how a romance is done that matters, tropes and archetypes are just tools after all.
I mean tvtropes has a playing with and YMMV and Alternate Character Interpretation page for a reason.
Another one I just remembered. The "anything but white human/elf" females aren't pretty enough trophe. This is evidenced by: both black LIs to date have been men. All of the most alien looking romances (Garrus, Thane, now Iron Bull) have been male. Liara just looks like a beautiful woman with tentacle hair. The closest thing we had was Tali, but that was botched to turn her into a pretty white chick with three fingers.
Solution: more races and more colors being represented among the female LIs.
There was Samantha. Also the LIs in Jade Empire, of course. And Josephine in DA:I
I've always figured this was a side-effect of preventing the noble knight from being the natural party leader instead of the PC.
Yeah, but that doesn't really explain why it's decisions that range from (relatively) minor to major, and like the PC ends up being in an almost parental role telling these dudes to buck up buttercup, and make a **** decision. In contrast, the women have a lot less trouble deciding things for themselves overall, with a nudge here and there perhaps depending on the woman (Merrill, lookin' at you), and while in a sense it's a nice inversion of the common "women need help doing things" it's also skirting kinda close to "dude can't take care of himself" which ties into almost Freudian parental issues. 
So I think my main point can be summed up as: Please give the PC a break from men with parental issues being dependent on the PC to be a fixer.
Did anyone already cover childhood friend/girl next door?
BTW you are correct about Asari and Quarians. For female aliens they have human breasts, buttocks, even body shapes, and human faces. But the male aliens look more bestial. particularly turians.
The turians where never meant to be romancible and only became romancable because of player request. And Thane is pretty huminiod. (Though with the qurians off mask it clear they did not thin it though and they did not get why we were upset about it.)
Then it's long overdue.
Actually Dawn Star was the (literal) Girl Next Door.
Guest_Postlapsarian_*
The turians where never meant to be romancible and only became romancable because of player request. And Thane is pretty huminiod. (Though with the qurians off mask it clear they did not thin it though and they did not get why we were upset about it.)
Actually Thane kinda of looks (face-wise) bestial. I agree he has a human body shape, but even that is covered in scales.
That is never used in a bw game as a romance.
Actually Dawn Star was the (literal) Girl Next Door.
Dammit Blonde! I wanted to make that point 
Yep, Dawn Star is your childhood friend/Girl-Next-Door trope with Silk Fox being the sassy bisexual Veronica to her Betty.
I've got one: So far, every lesbian relationship prominently featured in the DA games/EU has ended in tragedy. Branka and Hespith; Leliana and Majorline; Celene and Briala. I'm not sure if there is a specific trope name for that (although Hespith could be considered a case of Bury Your Gays,) but that's something that's getting a little painful.
Guest_Postlapsarian_*
Just a curiosity. Do you think portraying a lesbian female love interest as "masculine" in attitude and appearance may repel straight, male players from playing the female pc as a lesbian?
I noticed on youtube most views for Mass Effect love scenes are for modded and original lesbian love scenes.
He is damaged. It just sounds like the trope is worthy of being expanded beyond simply rogues. Is it safe to say you feel damaged bisexual comes up to much?
Slight tangent: I think part of the challenges with DA2's system of all the companions being bisexual creates some extra challenges, since by that very nature any of the romanceable options being damaged may serve as a reinforcement of the trope.
Ahh yes, forgot to clarify- when I mentioned the tropes I brought up earlier, I was thinking of them separately.
As in, "bisexual/pansexual promiscuous rogue" being one trope, and "damaged character in need of aid/healing" being another trope.
Although the two are often paired.
On the topic of annoying tropes, all I can think about is Anders or Fenris aka male love interests who carry a lot of angst/heavy past that the player have to fix.
Maybe it's just me but it feels a lot of male romances imply cuddling on the player part (even for Alistair).
Just a curiosity. Do you think portraying a lesbian female love interest as "masculine" in attitude and appearance may repel straight, male players from playing the female pc as a lesbian?
I noticed on youtube most views for Mass Effect love scenes are for modded and original lesbian love scenes.
Maybe it would but I have a feeling Bioware wouldn't care (and they shouldn't). Like they don't care that Cassandra is viewed by some male players as "manish".
I agree with the part of the conversation that female LIs aren't "allowed" to have injuries to stay attractive while male LIs have greatly varied appearances. I'm on board with y'all on that.
This a thousand times.
I'm glad you mentioned it, because I was also thinking it.
Same here. I agree completely. Hopefully Inquisition presents the player with more variety on that regard. I certainly can't see Cassandra as the awkward virgin or the promiscuous type, in any case, and I really hope she doesn't become that.
Just a curiosity. Do you think portraying a lesbian female love interest as "masculine" in attitude and appearance may repel straight, male players from playing the female pc as a lesbian?
I noticed on youtube most views for Mass Effect love scenes are for modded and original lesbian love scenes.
No. I only see it as stereotype people have the habit of labeling lesbian romances are like. I would not be turned away if the woman in the f/f romance was masculine. We already have that with Straight romances with Cassandra and Ashley.
I think it's fair to say, though, that Bioware has made games were the romantic element... intertwines with the main plot, for lack of a better word. I don't think there's a need to go farther; but it is fair to say that the non-straight LIs don't feature into the plot the same way.
I'm not sure how this relates to the discussion I was having with the poster whom was discussing that they'd like the romances to become more important and more recognized by the rest of the game world beyond the
I am trying to keep my responses more focused to the particular issue described because otherwise it becomes too difficult to manage.... Your trope is fine, and I guess I failed by keeping on topic since my explanation wasn't relevant to the topic itself, but I'd actually prefer you create a new post without a quote describing the trope because I find this confusing as I'm not sure if your response relates to the original issue the poster brought forward or not.
Just a curiosity. Do you think portraying a lesbian female love interest as "masculine" in attitude and appearance may repel straight, male players from playing the female pc as a lesbian?
I noticed on youtube most views for Mass Effect love scenes are for modded and original lesbian love scenes.
Ahh yes, forgot to clarify- when I mentioned the tropes I brought up earlier, I was thinking of them separately.
As in, "bisexual/pansexual promiscuous rogue" being one trope, and "damaged character in need of aid/healing" being another trope.
Although the two are often paired.
Yep.
Sky, Zaveran, and Isabela,
This is a good point to take notice of and bring to Allen's attention. It hadn't occurred to me but you're right, all of the f/f LIs are feminine in ways that are likely appealing to straight men. There's no "butch" bi or lesbian LIs and I can't help wondering if this is because someone thinks that straight men won't want to romance someone who is" manly". Maybe it's accidental, but it's a good thing to think about during the character planning from the next game.
That's actually one thing I've NEVER seen ANYONE post regarding a female character. I've seen "she's fugly" for all of them. I've seen "I don't think she's fugly" for all of them. I have never. once. seen "I think she's fugly BUT I DON'T CARE SHE SOUNDS LIKE AN INTERESTING PERSON who would be fun to sexytime with."
Swtor's Akaavi Spar is the closes thing to this.(Though she is not ugly just harsh looking)
That's actually one thing I've NEVER seen ANYONE post regarding a female character. I've seen "she's fugly" for all of them. I've seen "I don't think she's fugly" for all of them. I have never. once. seen "I think she's fugly BUT I DON'T CARE SHE SOUNDS LIKE AN INTERESTING PERSON who would be fun to sexytime with."
Yeah, this. Honestly, I'm the sort to go for someone far more for personality than looks, though looks do play into it at least sometimes. If Merrill wasn't dainty and femme I'd still adore her because her mix of naive and innocent with a dash of witty intellect is what makes me swoon the most. And while we don't yet know whether Solas is an LI, neither him nor Iron Bull is remotely my "type" for looks, yet I can't wait to #RideTheBull with one of my Inquisitors and I have near zero interest in Solas in that way. Not to say Solas isn't appealing in personality, but that he doesn't draw me the way IB does (and I like nerdy dudes, actually 
just not Solas... yet).
And I mean, I get that a percentage of Bioware's fanbase is hetero dudes, though I'd argue it's not as significant a percentage as some seem to think it is, and thus we get the conventionally pretty women vs. the wider range of dude appearances, I just... would really like a female Iron Bull, to be perfectly blunt. 
Thing is, I *don't* necessarily dig those specific features. I'm also talking about them in aggregate. I see no more need to specifically point out his missing eye than I do him having horns. In short, I dig and want to see more "exotic, different, nonconventional, alien" or whatever else you want to call it. This includes a host of human and nonhuman features that fall outside traditional beauty standards.
Would it be fair to say that "outside traditional beauty standards" would include, not just exotic appearances, but something that is more, well, average or ordinary (for lack of a better term)?
What I mean is an unfortunate trend in Bioware games for the last couple of years has been the increase of Rule of Sexy, especially for its female characters. Characters which are not only beautiful, but near-inhumanely so, and with outfits designed more to emphasize that than out of any sort of practicality. Characters like Samara and Miranda and Jacob in ME2, and Isabela in DA2. Also the differences in leather armor appearances for men and women in DAO is rather eye-rolling.
Compare the appearance of Ashley Williams in ME1 to her in ME3, and you will see that she had been pretty blatantly "sexified" Kaidan too had been bulked up and made more handsome as well. But he at least got to keep a standar uniform as his outfit.
Anyway, not sure if this qualifies as an "unfortunate romance trope" but I thought it seemed appropriate.
Thread closed because I'm finding myself actively removing most posts because it's evolved into a general discussion about things I consider off topic which, unfortunately, I don't want from this thread because it's complicating the information gathering I am intending on doing.
I will probably reopen the thread later when I can more consistently engage directly and have time to keep the thread more on track, and I do acknowledge that doing this biases my exposure to people that share the same schedule on when I am "casually" on the boards. But I literally have an entire page is entirely hidden because it was a discussion about what it means to be "white" when the trope itself seemed to be more "deviate more from standard conventions of women's attractiveness."
The extended conversations about it actually confuse me because now I am dissecting if it's an extension of the trope, or just an off topic tangent. I know I engaged in off topic discussion from time to time too when elaborating on some things when trying to give responses to posters, and will resolve to not do so in the future.
If you have any concerns about this decision please contact me via PM.
I haven't forgotten to open this again, just was busy and still need to do some things.
SOON(ish).
Cleaned up some posts, thread reopened. Going to reexamine the list, so to speak right now too.
I know conversations tend to be fluid so it's easy to have discussions. I'll simply try my best to keep it on track I guess, but if we can keep idle chatter I do find it helpful.
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