579 réponses à ce sujet

[Natashina]

 

Anders definitely has issues, though he wouldn't fit the classification of "Bisexual/Pansexual rogue that is damaged" that was put forward.

 

Do you think the trope should be more encompassing?

I'd call Anders damaged as well, especially by the time we see him again in DA2.  Between growing up in the Circles; being on the run for years; Grey Warden nightmares;  rarely finding love outside of trysts; trying to save his best friend and lover (I think that Karl was his first serious relationship, but I'm not sure) in a very Templar powered city; torn between himself and Justice, I'd call him damaged by the time he shows up in Act 1.  It isn't to say he's a bad character, and I don't hate the guy, but he strike me as someone that had something broken within him a long time ago.  I'd say this about him in Awakening, even before the Justice merger.  I think he was always a little damaged and broken on the inside, only that Justice made worse.  That's just me though.

 

 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

It's getting a little repetitive that Alistair, Sebastian and Cullen have all been the straight choices, and all the "nice guy, pretty boy" type, as well. I think it would be a bit concerning if that continued on over more games, also. 

[LPPrince]

Anders definitely has issues, though he wouldn't fit the classification of "Bisexual/Pansexual rogue that is damaged" that was put forward.

 

Do you think the trope should be more encompassing?

 

Aye, he doesn't fit the "bisexual/pansexual rogue" trope, but he does fit the "damaged" trope. 

 

Too often, romantic partners in video games have dark histories with issues that the PC has to help them through.

 

That is something I'd like to see the end of.

[Ailith Tycane]

This may be my bias wording this:  Are you referring basically to a romance that is "two people end up falling in love and it is awesome?"  I know that's not phrased amazingly, but there may be some preclusion towards content (romance or otherwise) that doesn't have conflict.

 

Or is there something more here?  Perhaps the conflict is something else?

 

IMO I think the fact that (in DAI anyway) the world is starting to leak demons could be enough drama. To be fair though I can't really imagine how that kind of romance would look in action, so there's that. Maybe the drama arises within current events instead of everyone's past baggage? 

 

I like the idea of romances who are your characters equal in some way, a real companion to fight whatever big bad you're having to deal with and support you while you support them. 

[Darth Krytie]

A trope I'd love to avoid is the one I commonly refer to as: the healing ****.

 

Basically, it's when someone is "emotionally damaged" and is "fixed" by sex.

 

 

I'd like to move away from that and towards something closer to having two characters have a meeting of minds or a connection that's fostered by the events that your PC and potential LI currently are going through instead of some dread emotional scarring from the past.

[Allan Schumacher]

Carth comes to mind. 

 

Also something else I can think of, although I'm not sure if it falls under being a trope, but I might as well say it here since devs are potentially listening. I wish you guys would make the seemingly "obvious" gay female LI's (from a completely stereotypical perspective) or companions actually gay instead of seemingly going out of your way to make them straight.

 

Aveline is one example, except she wasn't a romance for anyone. Jack is another example, and she even tells you she has had sexual relationships with women in the past, and yet is only available to men. Cassandra is the most recent example.

 

Don't wanna start an argument here about gay female stereotypes and also don't want to speculate on why this keeps happening in your games, but it's certainly something I would enjoy being changed in the future, even though I understand I am a small minority .

 

(My bias speaking) I'm not superbly well equipped to understand the "obvious" gay female LI unfortunately.  For instance, you suggest Aveline and I am "whoa... I didn't pick up on lesbian at all."  But you did.  But based on her and Cassandra, I do think I can understand the sort of similarities.

 

Framed a bit differently, is this sort of "I'd like a woman that is physical imposing and outspokenly opinionated, that is perfectly comfortable taking charge?"  There might be more to it, but those are some of the traits I can think of that seem to be shared among those that you mention.

[Ailith Tycane]

Framed a bit differently, is this sort of "I'd like a woman that is physical imposing and outspokenly opinionated, that is perfectly comfortable taking charge?"  There might be more to it, but those are some of the traits I can think of that seem to be shared among those that you mention.

 

That's probably a better way of putting it, yes. Also, sweet biceps. 

[In Exile]

Promiscuity being tied to trust issues, an ability to commit, a history of past abusive relationships or sexual abuse. I really don't like this set up for relationships. It gives the impression that people can't just like sex, it has to be tied back to an emotional flaw. Jack is a perfect example of this, but Isabela and Zevran also fit the bill. It doesn't help that they're also implied bisexual.. even Jack.. who wasn't available to women. 

 

Fenris is arguably in the same boat. He was sexually abused by Danarius. Indeed, Danarius implies that you're using him in that way as well when you encounter him at the hanged man. 

[metalfenix]

It's getting a little repetitive that Alistair, Sebastian and Cullen have all been the straight choices, and all the "nice guy, pretty boy" type, as well. I think it would be a bit concerning if that continued on over more games, also. 

 

I agree with that. The typical pretty boy in shining armour type, I was about to write about them.

[Battlebloodmage]

It's getting a little repetitive that Alistair, Sebastian and Cullen have all been the straight choices, and all the "nice guy, pretty boy" type, as well. I think it would be a bit concerning if that continued on over more games, also. 

This, definitely. The alpha, princely type in term of look and role just happen to be straight in all 3 games seem very troubling. Two are princes while one is a knight in shining armor. It seems like it's very stereotypical for these characters to be straight. They don't seem "gay". Yes, people act as a certain ways can be perceived as "gay" or "straight" and it seems like these characters keep further perpetuate the stereotype about how someone who doesn't look "gay" must be "straight".

[Allan Schumacher]

 

 

I'd call Anders damaged as well, especially by the time we see him again in DA2.  Between growing up in the Circles; being on the run for years; Grey Warden nightmares;  rarely finding love outside of trysts; trying to save his best friend and lover (I think that Karl was his first serious relationship, but I'm not sure) in a very Templar powered city; torn between himself and Justice, I'd call him damaged by the time he shows up in Act 1.  It isn't to say he's a bad character, and I don't hate the guy, but he strike me as someone that had something broken within him a long time ago.  I'd say this about him in Awakening, even before the Justice merger.  I think he was always a little damaged and broken on the inside, only that Justice made worse.  That's just me though.

 

He is damaged.  It just sounds like the trope is worthy of being expanded beyond simply rogues.  Is it safe to say you feel damaged bisexual comes up to much?

 

 

Slight tangent: I think part of the challenges with DA2's system of all the companions being bisexual creates some extra challenges, since by that very nature any of the romanceable options being damaged may serve as a reinforcement of the trope.

[Allan Schumacher]

Fenris is arguably in the same boat. He was sexually abused by Danarius. Indeed, Danarius implies that you're using him in that way as well when you encounter him at the hanged man. 

 

Would you consider Fenris promiscuous?

[leaguer of one]

The Viconia-

 

Character who is a tsundere type( a woman or male with a hard hostile personality) becomes attracted to mc(mostly males and one time female) and over the coarse of the romance has conflict with romancing the character while at the same time the more pleasant side of the persona is seen by the mc. The climax is when they question if they should romance the mc or not which can be the saving point of breaking point of the romance.

First seen in BG2 with Viconna and is in nearly even bw game since.

 

Victims are: Viconia, Bastila, Silkfox,Ashley,Morgan,Miranda, Jack, and Fenris,

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Fenris is arguably in the same boat. He was sexually abused by Danarius. Indeed, Danarius implies that you're using him in that way as well when you encounter him at the hanged man. 

Fenris is one of the few cases of a male "sexual healing", which is what Jack is, although he doesn't overlap so much on promiscuity. But, yeah, it's often all bunched together. Jack is just the total package; abusive history + promiscuous + doesn't trust people + implied bisexual + sexual healing.

[Battlebloodmage]

Would you consider Fenris promiscuous?

The question is, does he have to? When characters in each game fit a certain tropes. Zevran for his promiscuous nature and Fenris for his sexual abuse, it gives that there is a reason why they are "gay" or "bi", there has to be a reason, someone can't just be gay just because.

[In Exile]

Would you consider Fenris promiscuous?

 

I think Fenris has a hard time connecting to people. With characters like Isabella and Jack, their abuse (and sexual abuse) was in the far past, relative to the present. For Fenris, his wounds are very much in the present, at least until Act III. I think he is moving toward that direction, however, at least based on his banter with Isabella. That said, they do flirt for a very long time so it's arguable: 

 

• Isabela: That night...I can't stop thinking about it.
• Fenris: Well, then I'll see you later.
• Isabela: That was direct.
• Fenris: I thought I'd get straight to the point. Were you expecting flowers or something?
• Isabela: Don't be absurd.
• Fenris: Then I'll see you tonight.

 

You do make a fair point that I should have been more specific in my post: what loomed large in my mind was that it is possible to link his sexual preference to past abuse by Danarius, rather than promiscuity. 

[Ailith Tycane]

The Viconia-

 

Character who is a tsundere type( a woman or male with a hard hostile personality) becomes attracted to mc(mostly males and one time female) and over the coarse of the romance has conflict with romancing the character while at the same time the more pleasant side of the persona is seen by the mc. The climax is when they question if they should romance the mc or not which can be the saving point of breaking point of the romance.

First seen in BG2 with Viconna and is in nearly even bw game since.

 

Victims are: Viconia, Bastila, Silkfox,Ashley,Morgan,Miranda, Jack, and Fenris,

 

Hey, I dig the tsundere, haha. But you're right, it has happened a lot. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

This, definitely. The alpha, princely type in term of look and role just happen to be straight in all 3 games seem very troubling. Two are princes while one is a knight in shining armor. It seems like it's very stereotypical for these characters to be straight. They don't seem "gay". Yes, people act as a certain ways can be perceived as "gay" or "straight" and it seems like these characters keep further perpetuate the stereotype about how someone who doesn't look "gay" must be "straight".

It seems like it must be an attitude thing that they just can't reconcile with being a "gay male". They're clearly not too manly. No man has ever manned as hard as Iron Bull and yet, lo' and behold, he loves the D. That's actually what makes it especially concerning, to me. It feels like they can't imagine the "ultimate good guy" type as being a gay or bi guy. 

[In Exile]

The question is, does he have to? When characters in each game fit a certain tropes. Zevran for his promiscuous nature and Fenris for his sexual abuse, it gives that there is a reason why they are "gay" or "bi", there has to be a reason, someone can't just be gay just because.

 

Zevran's reason, at least as I recall, is that he was trained that way by the Crows. So he has a reason, but it's not just being promiscuous. 

[Darth Krytie]

I would dearly love to never get another dialogue in a romance that subtly or overtly indicated that their bisexuality was due to being an assassin or some other negative event in their lives.

[Maria Caliban]

I wish Killallmechus were here as our conversation seemed to be what started this.

[Battlebloodmage]

It seems like it must be an attitude thing that they just can't reconcile with being a "gay male". They're clearly not too manly. No man has ever manned as hard as Iron Bull and yet, lo' and behold, he loves the D. That's actually what makes it especially concerning, to me. It feels like they can't imagine the "ultimate good guy" type as being a gay or bi guy. 

To be fair, I like Iron Bull as an option, but he falls into the promiscuous bisexual trope. It seems like the sexual minority in DA all fall under certain tropes of some kinds. It would have been nice to have someone like Kaidan who people would ever say to be "gay" actually the gay option. 

[Battlebloodmage]

Zevran's reason, at least as I recall, is that he was trained that way by the Crows. So he has a reason, but it's not just being promiscuous. 

Yes, that's still the point though, there has to be a REASON for someone to be gay or bi. They couldn't just happen to be the way they are. Since we are discussing tropes and all. I'm just saying the trope that people turn gay for a reason. 

[SurelyForth]

I would also like to stop killing my potential/current lover's former lovers, if at all possible. Especially the s/s ones. 

[Allan Schumacher]

The question is, does he have to? When characters in each game fit a certain tropes. Zevran for his promiscuous nature and Fenris for his sexual abuse, it gives that there is a reason why they are "gay" or "bi", there has to be a reason, someone can't just be gay just because.

 

The trope put forward that In Exile was responding to was "Promiscuity being tied to trust issues, an ability to commit, a history of past abusive relationships or sexual abuse."

 

Emphasis mine.

 

So to fit the trope, it'd seem like yes, he would have to be promiscuous.