579 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Nuggins]

People use tropes precisely because they are a cultural reference.  In other times it was called archetypes and used by philosophers and those in psychiatric study.  While I realize that people don't like generalizations, evolutionary biology explains man's (or woman's) mechanisms towards profiling.  The brain has instinctively stored things like "twitchy" can be a dangerous behavior type or "be wary of large people" or "large eyes are friendly" because it was easier to survive.

 

Unless the trope is harmful what's the bother?

 

I could see if Dorian rolled out going "Haaaayyyyy, gurrrrrl" then it's beyond trope and negative stereotype, but it is not a bad thing if he (trope coming) is more reserved or troubled because he grew up in a heternormative culture and with expectations of marriage.  That's how many gay men and women lived during more medieval times (like in the game). 

 

The bulk of the game is fighting bad guys, creating plans of attack, fortifying areas, etc.  The writers aren't writing a romance novel or a romance movie, they're writing an action adventure game with romance.  I think they do ok with the writing and if there's a trope it's usually nothing objectionable.

 

The title of the thread is "Unfortunate Romance tropes/archetypes," so you've already answered your own question.  Harmful tropes is exactly what we are talking about. 

 

Nobody is calling for, say, the end to noble knight figures.  But they are asking why noble knights are always straight.  That's the thing about archetypes--they may be useful writing tools, but if they are always categorized as just one thing, then they're a limitation. 

 

There are other threads about fighting bad guys and other gameplay-related issues.  Why read this thread if you don't want to talk about it?

[Riknas]

See the thread is unlocked since I last looked at it, I think I'll thrown in my two cents.

 

As a straight male, it strikes me as a little odd that then only patterns I noticed in the romances are the guy romances (Maybe it's easier to look at...objectively, or something?)

 

There seems to be a consensus that a lot of the male love-interests are whiny, the ones I mainly think of being Alistair and Carth. Then, to a lesser extent, Fenris and Kaidan, both of whom make reference to the common complaint, saying things along the lines of, "Look, I don't want you to think I'm a whiner, okay?" I suspect this is intentional acknowledgment on Bioware's part, but someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

The other hook I noticed for the guy love interests were in that a major part of the male LI's background is that they lost their last/most loved one. This, again is in the form of Carth, Zevran, Kaidan, Thane, and to a much lesser extent, Anders and Jacob (for those two it's not really a key event affecting their pscyhology, it's just something that I thought may be relevant). To me, it seems like it's a definitive cliché/trope at this point. Although, from what I've gathered from my female friends, it's  a very attractive type of cliché/trope.

[ReelRipper]

^ I wont lie I have noticed this trend as well. I cant think of one Male Love Interest that didn't follow the same pattern that I have spotted throughout the DA series.

[Allan Schumacher]

One can squint and look funny at any character enough to make them fit any trope, or not, if one really wanted to.

 

She comes to your defense in the Inn when you first meet her. She defends to the death the sanctity of the Ashes if you decide to foul them. Both seem pretty chivalrous to me. Knightly, well no, she's a sister of the chantry and a rogue/bard.

 

I'm not sure we know enough about Cullen and Cassandra to say which trope they fit. In DAO I wouldn't describe Cullen as chivalrous at all.We know little of either characters background either (tie in movies I haven't seen notwithstanding)

 

I'm snipping this tangent in the (not so small) bud.  The existence of something that runs contrary to a convention/trope doesn't completely invalidate the trope.

 

 

 

The problem isn't really that noble knight characters are always straight, though is it? Its the opposite, ie why are non straight characters always a bit shifty?

 

Stating the positive of the trope still makes it clear to me what the expressed concern is.  This is a semantics argument and further posts along this line will be deleted.

 

 

I just cleaned up a good chunk of the thread.

[Who Knows]

There seems to be a consensus that a lot of the male love-interests are whiny

I think part of that perception is actually due to the fact that males are often expected to be stoic and not share their problems and feelings. In other words, they are held to a different standard than female love interests.

 

I've seen way more people say that Carth is whiny than Bastila is whiny, even though her first conversations basically consist of her second guessing you and your actions. Morrigan does that a lot, too, actually, yet Alistair is apparently still more whiny to some people.

[Tayah]

I think the difference is that Morrigan and Bastilla are challenging you to prove yourself and are focusing on your actions where Carth and Alistair are more focused on their pasts which is so much of what they are then about that it gets monotonous. I mean most of my wardens have tragedy before they meet Alistair and after Duncan's loss if you compare them the warden would probably have just as much reason to want to focus on themselves but they don't and don't get too where that's all Alistair does.

 

It's the guys having that tragic past trope that they then focus on leading to perceptions of whiny verses the women who fall into the manipulative, cunning, aggressive trope so they will always question you. Nearly every male has some form of dark past and only females are manipulative, ambitious, cunning, practical so both can get seen in a negative light it's just different negatives. 

 

At least that's my take on it for what it's worth.

[Sir George Parr]

It's really just the fact that rogues tend to be a rather specific character "type."  Questionable morals, inclination for deception, willing to literally or figuratively backstab a person, willing to do shady things for money.  They rarely have noble goals, they are often promiscuous, they're often out for their own survival above anything else, they are often the jokers and tricksters of the group.  Even Leliana, for all her devout religion, is still a trained assassin. 

 

I love rogues, but making so many rogues bi or lesbian seems to imply that these traits go hand-in-hand with not being straight.  Sure, the "flamboyant rogue" character is a fun archetype, but it starts to get old after a while. 

After 2 games, it feels old. i'd hoped for something different this time around. A female warrior, who's also Bi or Lesbian. Instead of another Rogue who's Bi or Lesbian  

[frylock23]

Part of me wonders if the it's the romances being assigned certain character tropes as much as it is the ATs. What I mean is that the rogues of Dragon Age are pretty much all stereotypical rogues: they're the charming, light-hearted comic relief of the party even when they should have the darkest backgrounds. The warriors are all stereotypical warriors: the chivalrous or stoic sorts. And the mages are the academic, philosophical, darkly mysterious ones who wield great power.

 

Yes, I can see that the LIs have been distributed unevenly among them, but so have the types. Why can't the warrior be philosophical or the light-hearted comic relief. Why can't the rogue have a strong code of honor? Couldn't the mage ever be chivalrous or stoic?

[Feybrad]

Part of me wonders if the it's the romances being assigned certain character tropes as much as it is the ATs. What I mean is that the rogues of Dragon Age are pretty much all stereotypical rogues: they're the charming, light-hearted comic relief of the party even when they should have the darkest backgrounds. The warriors are all stereotypical warriors: the chivalrous or stoic sorts. And the mages are the academic, philosophical, darkly mysterious ones who wield great power.

 

Yes, I can see that the LIs have been distributed unevenly among them, but so have the types. Why can't the warrior be philosophical or the light-hearted comic relief. Why can't the rogue have a strong code of honor? Couldn't the mage ever be chivalrous or stoic?

 

Funnily enough, in Inquisition this is broken up a bit. I honestly can't see Cole as comic relief, he strikes me as that Guy with the strong Code / darkly mysterious one. Also, I can see Iron Bull being as much comic Relief and light-hearted as the Rogues and Philosophy is probably a Thing we can talk to him quite a bit about.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Sebastian was a rogue that fit what people call the "warrior personality", I would say. He was easily the most traditionally moralistic of the DA2 spread. However, he was still clearly straight.  

[Riknas]

Part of me wonders if the it's the romances being assigned certain character tropes as much as it is the ATs. What I mean is that the rogues of Dragon Age are pretty much all stereotypical rogues: they're the charming, light-hearted comic relief of the party even when they should have the darkest backgrounds. The warriors are all stereotypical warriors: the chivalrous or stoic sorts. And the mages are the academic, philosophical, darkly mysterious ones who wield great power.

 

Yes, I can see that the LIs have been distributed unevenly among them, but so have the types. Why can't the warrior be philosophical or the light-hearted comic relief. Why can't the rogue have a strong code of honor? Couldn't the mage ever be chivalrous or stoic?

 

I don't know, while we can call them stereotypes, but we could also refer to them as just...you know, characters that make sense. I feel like in the end, someone's personality would be highly reflected in their fighting style. If we have the person that picks locks, fights from the shadows, fires from a far off location or stabs them in the back...Well, those are the ways of fighting that are/were considered the most morally questionable. At that point, wouldn't it make sense then that these people have the most loose sense of morality, or the ones with the most vague sense of right and wrong? That's part of what makes a rogue a rogue. Granted, they don't all need to be light-hearted, we could do with some more broody rogues, which is probably what Cole will shape up to be, but overall, I think someone that is chivalrous and/or stoic in nature, would most likely find themselves fighting like a warrior. If you're a mage, if you want to be any good at your job, you need to be academic and have a strong understanding of your field. 

 

Even then, I feel like Bioware has done pretty good at avoiding strict stereotypes.

 

Did Oghren strike you as a strictly stoic chivalrous guy? No, he was the most blatantly comedic character we had. Wynne was of a very stoic and chivalrous nature along with being an academic. And while an uplifting sort, Leliana had a very troubled past that was a key influence on her personality, and she wasn't always there making wise-cracks. Velanna was hardly an academic mage, her most defining personality traits resided in her sense of hatred for humans and her love for her sister.

 

At this point, I feel like if they kept trying to distance themselves from the stereotypes, it would either come across as redundant or contrived.

[karushna5]

I mean I have seen some general negative lesbian tropes that Bioware seems to propogate.

Discount lesbian- The asari have been described as not really women and capable of attracting anyone regardless of sexuality(or nonsexuality in regards to Salarians) Although this only appears in sci fi, and the asari are here to stay. I understand that, but the ability to avoid that in the future would be nice.

Evil lesbians- Out of the games, there have been quite a few women who are attracted to other women that were villains. Marjolaine, Branka, Benezia, Jaheira(sorta a villain that converts), Aria(antihero/antivillain) and other than Branka, these are sexed up women who play a villainous role and whose sexuality is stressed, and both Branka and Marjolaine their relationship with their lover is part of their evil. By all means, make lesbians/bisexual women that are evil, or villains. But it would be nice if their sexuality was less part of their villainy.

Lesbians are Bi- I mean the Asari again of course being a species of women who are all Bisexual. And Bisexual women deserve their own limelight, not necessarily a weird semi representation. And guys get this too as well as only recently are LGBT people a thing at all. But a bisexual woman using a past homoromantic encounter to tantalize men is part of a large part of their fetishization in all medias and is also used against lesbians as their relationships are encouraged to be voyeurized by men.

Compare Zevran, Sky, Anders talk of their past relationships and then Leliana, Isabela, Jack(who is a straight Bisexual??) These 6 all had previous relationships of Bi LIs. First 3 have a tragic straight romance, a sad straight romance, A sad gay romance, none of which were sexualized but told with sincerity or shown. Leliana was betrayed and gets to track down Marjolaine and a sexually charged talk, Isabela has no f/f established relationship but often when she talks about women it is to scandalize. And Jack was used by men and women and apparently only mentions women to tantalize her straight romance(not the character, obviously, but how she seems to be written).

And of course something already mentioned.- Women who are strong jawed, muscular, not feminine in the sense of traditional feminity(ie makeup, dresses, fashion) tough, or protective are always straight due to Butch lesbians being considered a bad stereotype. Lesbian women are usually feminine in a more traditional sense.

One I am glad you avoided... Lesbian Drunks. A real problem, yes, but one that is frustrating when shown in the media to the degree it has, with often little empathy for their situation. Thank You for no Lesbian Drunks.

[Allan Schumacher]

Jaheira(sorta a villain that converts)

 

I think there's a mistake here as the Jaheira I remember is neither a villain nor a lesbian.... 

[Andraste_Reborn]

I think there's a mistake here as the Jaheira I remember is neither a villain nor a lesbian.... 

 

I think they must mean Juhani?

[Brass_Buckles]

I'm sure all of these have been brought up before, but the tropes that I can think of are the "recovery from lost love" trope, the "love can mend a broken soul" trope, and the "bisexuals are always promiscuous" trope.

 

Recovery from Lost Love:  Carth, Kaidan, Thane, Sky, others.  Usually this is a straight male, but it is also possible for the character to be a gay or bisexual male.  Would be less of an issue if this happened with women from time to time, but still... When we're talking about romances, a Lost Love means that the character in question doesn't love the protagonist most, because there's always that Lost Love from whom he (or more rarely she) will never recover.  Now I'm not saying I'd want a romance that's pure as the driven snow, or another virginal Alistair type, but the long-dead/lost love/family is problematic because it's been done so much.  How about a few relationships that simply didn't work out--for both male and female LIs?  Not every past relationship has to have ended in tragedy.  Sometimes, people just fall out of love, or they realize belatedly that they were never in love in the first place.  Or, sometimes people date and take a long time to "click" with someone.

 

Love Can Mend A Broken Soul:  The biggest character that comes to my mind is Jack; however, Zevran also counts to some degree and perhaps also Morrigan.  So you encounter this character who's basically been through hell, mentally, physically, or both.  In Jack's case, there is even implied rape.  Rather than getting these characters counseling (in worlds where that's a thing) or being a good friend and shoulder to lean on, the protagonist ends up romancing them--even when it would make more sense, in context of the situation, to just be a friend and help that other character work things out.  They might never work things out.  Jack in particular never struck me as someone who ought to be in a romantic relationship--too many conflicting emotions in her about sex and romance, due to her past experiences.  But, magically, after having healing sex/relationships with the Main Character, the Broken Soul is suddenly okay, or at least better than he or she was prior to that magical healing sex.  Now, troubled pasts aren't a horrible thing in and of themselves, though it is preferable they be used sparingly--and it's not entirely wrong to have a relationship with someone who's troubled.  The problem is that when someone has that many issues, they aren't going to be solved by a romantic partner having sex with the troubled individual.  Having a considerate, caring relationship may help, but things would still be complicated, and the troubled person may even have conflicting feelings about the relationship even if it is a healthy one.  If there's a troubled character in a relationship, it may be a bit more realistic if it plays out something like Anders' did (yeah I know Anders is all kinds of trouble, BUT).  In other words, there may be a lot of love there, but the troubled person is still troubled, and may or may not need more help and support than the partner protagonist can give.

 

Promiscuous Bisexuals: Zevran.  Isabella.  Iron Bull.  Seriously?  I know that bisexuals aren't all promiscuous, and I'm a straight person.  And, there are a lot of promiscuous people who are straight, as well (maybe a higher percentage than bisexuals, but I can't be sure of that).  While 2/3 of the promiscuous bisexual characters I can think of were male, and that's also an issue--not all men are promiscuous, and as a straight woman I can tell you that the last thing I want in a man is promiscuity--I don't have a big enough sample size to say for sure that they will be unequal.  Still, it's a problem.  Many bisexuals are quite monogamous, or don't find that many people attractive, or ARE attracted to many people but still manage to be loyal to just one person.  Zevran also has the attached issue that he claims to have been "made" bisexual, but that's a separate matter.  It wouldn't be an issue if it were only one bisexual who'd been promiscuous, but now we're getting a pattern.  Can we please break this pattern after Iron Bull?  One or two just indicate that's how that character is.  Three over the course of three games is problematic.  Have a straight character be promiscuous for once--maybe a straight female, since the LGBT community's had enough of it, and I, as a lady, am sick of the Promiscuous Man trope.

 

And since I mentioned it...

 

The Promiscuous Man Trope...  Zevran, Iron Bull, possibly Anders (uncertain of that, though he's a flirt for sure), Jacob (to some degree, since he cheats).  Probably others I don't remember.  This has fortunately not been as common with Bioware as some other companies.  HOWEVER, it's worth mentioning to prevent it becoming too common.  Society likes to believe men would want all kinds of pretty girlfriends hanging off their shoulders, so women are presented with a guy who sleeps around with a lot of other people (in the case of Zevran and Iron Bull those people may also be male, but in most cases in the media, he of course would have many girlfriends as lovers) or even just flirts with them.  When the female protagonist romances him, he's magically corrected his ways and she can become his One and Only.  While I know this is the ideal and sweet and sappy and romantic, it just isn't believable, and I can't help thinking my character should wind up with some STD for being with a guy like that.  And then you have cases like Jacob, where he seems loyal, but is apparently promiscuous... so you get cheated on (which hasn't happened with any female LIs, thus only straight female Shepards lost an LI in this way).  That's not fun in real life, and it's certainly not fun in a game.  Maybe a better way to deal with promiscuous characters is to have them be open about it, and maybe have the type of character who separates romance from sex.  "I love you, but I really like sex.  It's okay if we have sex with other people, because it's just sex and we know we love each other and still return to each other no matter who else we have sex with."  But that's a complicated type of relationship (note also, it's not my thing, but I could see playing a character who thinks that way) and may be a bit too complicated for the sake of a game romance.  I think what I am saying is when we generally expect monogamous pairings from the LIs, it'd be nice if they either returned the favor or made it clear that they had no intention of being monogamous, at least sexually (Isabella is likely a good example of this, but I never romanced her so I can't say for sure--maybe she ended up monogamous as well?).

[Brass_Buckles]

And while I'm here... (sorry to double post, but I figured there'd be replies by the time I got around to posting)

 

The Woman Always Loses trope... Thane, Jacob, Alistair, Sebastian in some respects.  The creepy situations with Vega and Javik in ME3's Citadel DLC.  Maybe others.  Basically, a straight female character can't have her romance AND her happily ever after.  Thane dies, no matter what.  Jacob cheats, no matter what.  Alistair has to be handled very carefully, or he's lost entirely--and even then the only person who can marry him is a human noble.  Anyone else will be dumped, or have to end up as a mere mistress.  And, then, if both are to survive, he must be sent into the arms of another woman even though he clearly doesn't want that.  Sebastian will happily romance a lady Hawke, but he refuses to actually consummate the relationship--which maybe isn't an issue for everyone, but for plenty of people that would be a huge letdown.

 

This wouldn't be so problematic, if it ever happened to straight male protagonists.  However, it's happened repeatedly to female characters, so even just once to male characters would not counterbalance the problem.

 

But straight males get to go back and find Morrigan.  They get to go through the eluvian with her, or with Merrill.  Their LIs do not die, do not cheat, do not say they will have a chaste, sex-free marriage.  They don't have to jump through hoops to keep their favored LI from marrying someone else, or defying their orders and dying in their stead.  They don't have to send their female LI to be raped by a man in order to continue living, or end up date raping female characters who otherwise wouldn't sleep with them--or waking up next to random characters when they chose to romance no one at all.  I can't think of a single case--though others may be able to--wherein a male character has somehow lost a female LI or had to win the gold Olympic medal in choice gymnastics, just to keep that relationship going.  No, the worst straight male characters get is a vague future with some characters, or an inability to have children with a particular character.

 

We get it.  The audience for the game mostly plays males, mostly straight.  But that doesn't mean that players of other sexualities and genders shouldn't also get to have their happy ending, without struggling for it, or that straight males should never have to fight for a happy ending, or be denied it anyway.  I don't mind an unhappy ending now and then in terms of romance--except that it's become a bit too common for straight women, while it just doesn't happen for straight men.  So please, work on balancing this out--either eliminate unhappy LI endings, or let the guys experience some of them too.

[LiquidLyrium]

Other unfortunate romance tropes:

Your party members will never initiate a s/s romance amongst themselves, even when there are other LGBT party members. Any hookups between squadmates have always been m/f as far as I know. It's certainly true in ME and DA. (Which lends to the erasure of the various companion's queerness). 

 

I think the 'noble/virtuous' trope can be better summed up as "If you're Andrastian, you're straight" with Leliana as the obvious exception, but she does appear to be an outlier in the grand scheme of things. (Plus she comes with the troubling trappings of 'my sexuality is more a result of my job/my past as a spy.') Even among NPCs I can't think of a single non-straight Templar or member of the Chantry. The other implication from this is, to a casual observer, that being LGBT is not welcome within the Chantry or under Andrastian beliefs. Ser Wesley--married to Aveline, Ser Thrask--had a daughter,Alistair is a former Templar/Templar recruit, Sebastian is a full Brother in the Chantry, Cassandra's a Seeker and the Divine's Right Hand, Cullen's another Templar. Plus, Leliana isn't even fully confirmed in her vows, so while her faith is very sincere, she is also an outsider when it comes to the Chantry, and seems to be there for more personal reasons than anything else. 

 

While it's true that the Chantry does not actively (as far as we know) persecute LGBT individuals, their conspicuous absence (with the notable exception of Leliana) would suggest to a casual player "The Christianity analog is also anti-queer because they are not welcome." I mean, I know that to be untrue, but I've also read up on a lot of the lore, especially the lore surrounding the various attitudes of sexuality in Thedas. But when you look at what's presented in the games..... the Chantry doesn't exactly seem like it's LGBT friendly either. At worst it could also be construed as 'here's a place to fix your deviancy through the love of the Maker.' 

 

Again, I know that's not what is intended, but how many people are going to look at the Chantry and the Order and say to themselves 'They take vows of Chastity to honor Andraste and the Maker' instead of 'sex is wrong and immoral in the eyes of the Maker, same-gender sex moreso' especially since Templars are allowed to marry and have families but there have been no in game examples of gay or bi Templars?

 

Absence can say as much or more than inclusion. Plus, when you add in the option for the PC to say 'ew gross "that's disgusting" no ******' it kinda reinforces the idea that being LGBT carries just as much stigma as in our world. Which is again, just not true in most of Thedas. (Although up to this point we have been playing Fereldans for the most part, and they seem the most uptight about it.)

[karushna5]

I think there's a mistake here as the Jaheira I remember is neither a villain nor a lesbian.... 

Juhani was confused my mistake

[Bugsie]

@Brass Buckles, Allan has listed all the tropes that have been talked about/mentioned in the first post and has been keeping it updated as the thread progresses. As far as I'm aware all but the last trope you've talked about have been mentioned previously, although not in as much detail as you have provided!

[Vapaa]

 

But straight males get to go back and find Morrigan.  They get to go through the eluvian with her, or with Merrill.  Their LIs do not die, do not cheat, do not say they will have a chaste, sex-free marriage.  They don't have to jump through hoops to keep their favored LI from marrying someone else, or defying their orders and dying in their stead.  They don't have to send their female LI to be raped by a man in order to continue living, or end up date raping female characters who otherwise wouldn't sleep with them--or waking up next to random characters when they chose to romance no one at all.  I can't think of a single case--though others may be able to--wherein a male character has somehow lost a female LI or had to win the gold Olympic medal in choice gymnastics, just to keep that relationship going.  No, the worst straight male characters get is a vague future with some characters, or an inability to have children with a particular character.

 

I assume the first case is sending Alistair to Morrigan's bed so he and the Warden survives, but what are the others ?

[karushna5]

I assume the first case is sending Alistair to Morrigan's bed so he and the Warden survives, but what are the others ?

the only romance tropes that actually freaked me out in the game was how they handled Vega in the citadel DLC. It is probably one of the creepiest romance scenes I have ever seen in a video game. Vega wont sleep with a female Shepard unless she pressures him way past no, gets him drunk, and when he is plastered, has sex with him. Very uncomfortable as that is the whole goal.

 

Also in the citadel DLC, it was very uncomfortable that if you didnt romance anyone you woke up next to Javick.(although i think the same thing happens with guys?) It was problematic because the idea your character got drunk and ended up sleeping with someone they had no intention of sleeping with. Which i understand is often played up with comedy, but actually is pretty scary.

 

Despite who the character romances, men get to keep their romances. Jack, Miranda, Tali, leliana, Morrigan(although I think this is iffy when not counting Witch Hunt, it is a DLC) While women lose 2 romances(Thane and Jacob) and Alistair is easier to lose when you crown him because the whole mistress thing as compared to Morrigan who leaves regardless but doesn't lose affection, although I think they are really on pretty equal grounds.

[Vapaa]

the only romance tropes that actually freaked me out in the game was how they handled Vega in the citadel DLC. It is probably one of the creepiest romance scenes I have ever seen in a video game. Vega wont sleep with a female Shepard unless she pressures him way past no, gets him drunk, and when he is plastered, has sex with him. Very uncomfortable as that is the whole goal.

 

Also in the citadel DLC, it was very uncomfortable that if you didnt romance anyone you woke up next to Javick.(although i think the same thing happens with guys?) It was problematic because the idea your character got drunk and ended up sleeping with someone they had no intention of sleeping with. Which i understand is often played up with comedy, but actually is pretty scary.

 

Sweet mother of Andraste that's abysmal

[WildOrchid]

Other unfortunate romance tropes:

Your party members will never initiate a s/s romance amongst themselves, even when there are other LGBT party members. Any hookups between squadmates have always been m/f as far as I know. It's certainly true in ME and DA. (Which lends to the erasure of the various companion's queerness).

 

I think this one and the chivalric/noble character being always straight, are two of the most frustrating and annoying tropes ever. I want these tropes to diaf and be forever buried.

[jlb524]

Also in the citadel DLC, it was very uncomfortable that if you didnt romance anyone you woke up next to Javick.(although i think the same thing happens with guys?) 

 

Nope...just for female Shepard.

[Feybrad]

Nope...just for female Shepard.

 

Wasn't it Samara as male Shepard?