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The drama in every romance just for the sake of having some kind of hook...
Every confident women had to loose their marble when it comes to love.(Morrigan/Isabela)
Those who are not so confident will be the super loving girlfriend.(Leliana /Merrill)
I've seen some chalk this up as being positives for the romances. Especially with Anders. In that it added a particularly unique sense of drama. Many also seem to consider Anders and Morrigan to be "main/more important" romances because of this.
Speaking with my bias, I also like this because I'm a giant monster and enjoy the idea that things don't play out perfectly and it isn't necessarily because of the player being Machiavellian. Though admittedly, my reasons for engaging in romance content is decidedly less "because I want my character to be in a positive, romantic relationship with someone." So someone who DOES want that, then it's kind of a pisser and some will feel that the romances they received are less than fair and whatnot.
It's not that I'm against the ulterior motive thing, but that it's not even that much of a sucker punch because of all the other problems in the romance. It's more like the culmination of problem after problem and then that as a final 'thank you very much for playing: here's your prize...a dagger!'
I agree on this.
SWTOR has a brilliant scientist almost-LI, but he dumps the PC for his hologram waifu. There's also a gifted doctor/surgeon who is a LI and a male diplomat who is very well-spoken and knowledgeable about first contact type things. The latter two are not Mordin-style uber-geniuses, but they definitely stand out as being brainier than the other men in their pool, both in SWTOR, ME and DA. And that's kinda sad.
Gosh. You remind of something even more profound. I saw the term "scientist" and it got me thinking about the intelligent men...The thinkers, the scientists, the philosophers...Many of them...Both in real life and in games, especially in games...Women take little to no interest in them...
It is really a tragic thing really...That there is this trope, both in games and in reality...where intelligent men are thrown under the proverbial bus in favor of pretty awkward boys or angsty brooding emos or tough machos...
It does not exactly set a very healthy trend does it ?
Derp, you meant the damaged type. I fix.
Edit- Characters with moral dilemmas, dark pasts, negative thoughts in their mind that keep them in the dumps or drag with them into the present.
Basically, imagine hypothetically meeting someone interesting, except he/she says, "My daddy didn't love me, my mom wasn't around, etc etc"
Well that sucks, and I want to help that person move on and have a better disposition and a happier personality.
But- too often, games have romantic partners with these types of backgrounds, because its easy to help someone with their problems and then find a romantic connection with them.
This seems to be the big "trope" that nearly all LI's seem to fall under, sure it works for adding content to a romance arc but just once I'd like a LI that has their life sorted out and you can romance them like people usually do in real life... lots of courting, some fighting/arguing, dates, etc.
To me, virginal romance trope becomes a tad repetitive. Alistair, Merrill, Sebastian and now Cullen. Alistair and Cullen especially look like twins.
Really? Virginal romances seem to be in the minority from what i've seen and I personally would like to see more of them, I dislike how innocence (both literal and figurative) is hard to come by in the DA universe.
Garrus is an example of a romance that many people loved that had little to no relationship drama. It may not have been the most interesting romance to write, but in terms of how many players enjoyed the romance, it seemed to have done pretty well.
I've noticed that basically all of the bisexual men act more or talk more about their attraction to women. Their attraction to men feels much more hidden away.
Sky - Had a dead wife, and you really have to go out of your way to romance him as a man.
Zevran - Pretty much says he prefers women. Has a dead female love interest.
Anders - In DA:A, he said that he all wants is a pretty girl (and the right to shoot lightning at fools). Does not mention that Karl was his lover unless you play as male.
Fenris - Gets with Isabela if you don't romance either.
Kaidan - In Mass Effect 1, can only be romanced by female Shepard. Arguably the entire thing with Rahna and Jump Zero. Makes several comments about finding women beautiful, including EDI.
There are more animations used with female Shepard than male Shepard while Kaidan is romanced.
Bisexuals can prefer one gender more than another, but I'd like to see more diversity in regards to the romantic histories of these love interests and the people they mention they are attracted to, even if you aren't romancing them.
This is a trend that's bugged me a lot, also. I hope that it's something they're putting behind them, but one that I worry about this time is Varric. If he's an LI and not just gated straight, he'll be a pretty shining example of a bi male that seems to have been idealized as straight.
Garrus is an example of a romance that many people loved that had little to no relationship drama. It may not have been the most interesting romance to write, but in terms of how many players enjoyed the romance, it seemed to have done pretty well.
Garrus is my platonic ideal of romance done right.
Garrus is my platonic ideal of romance done right.
Yeah, if I may use this thread for an idea of a romance theme I'd love to see more of, the way that the ME team handled Garrus was amazing. 
In the interests of having a reference point, I want to put them here. I'll temporarily disengage from further discussion to give people a chance to respond so I can update this list. Please let me know which ones I have missed:
It is really telling isn't it when the thing that most people want out of a romantic relationship is the drama, the angst, the cuteness and the awkwardness ? Not many want the decent, the normal and the intelligent.
EDIT: On the bright side, Leliana neatly subverted this trope by being a bisexual woman with an implied preference (or at least a significant history) with women.
In the interests of having a reference point, I want to put them here. I'll temporarily disengage from further discussion to give people a chance to respond so I can update this list. Please let me know which ones I have missed:
- If you're not straight, you're a Rogue
- If your devout, chivalric/virtuous, or knightly/heroic, you're straight.
- Bisexuals seem to have female preference
- Gay and bisexual people have dark backgrounds, that comes across as feeling like that is why they are not straight
- Bisexuals are promiscuous
- Carth Syndrome
- Lesbian Tragedy
- People with dark/damaged pasts tend to be LI, and by being a LI they are "healed"
You missed the "There seem to be no intelligent men as LI" trope.
Garrus is an example of a romance that many people loved that had little to no relationship drama. It may not have been the most interesting romance to write, but in terms of how many players enjoyed the romance, it seemed to have done pretty well.
It wasn't the best romance for sure , but if you take the romance as part of a whole game ...Well I thought it brought a breeze of fresh air , and give you moments to RP a bit away from I am the superhero saving the world thing.
It's like helping Aveline and Donnic get together , I really like this quest in DA2.It's not dramatic , it's just two people being awkward at flirting.
It's fun between all the killings and mages and templars and quanri all wanting to kill each others.
One I hadn't gotten to, but meant to bring up is the "forcing or convincing the LI to change for their own good" trope. Which was basically all the rivalry romances. But also alluded to if you chose to harden Alistair or Leliana. (But no where nearly as uncomfortable as what happened in rivalry romances in Kirkwall.)
You missed the "There seem to be no intelligent men as LI" trope.
I wanted to discuss this one more with you first! 
Personally, I don't mind the romance options that have a lot of drama (aka Morrigan and Anders). It's only a problem if one type of player is always stuck with this (aka if every gay romance ends in tragedy, or if every m/f romance ends with the female LI leaving forever, etc.). Maybe I'm overlooking something, but I haven't felt like that's a problem the DA games have had? The drama seems pretty well spread out.
I liked the rivalry romances?
They weren't uncomfortable to me.
I actually have more of an issue with Morrigan softening due to childbirth because that's not how babies work. Having children does not magically make you a better person.
Assuming that happens of course.
It seems at least one of your romantic interest has to be involved in some Thedas changing/shattering stuff. Morrigan and the Old God baby. Anders and mage/templar war. Allistair and if he's going to take the throne. Merril's cute yet effectively soul crushing questline to restore a mirror that spread the Blight to the dalish warden and Temril in Origins, and had the potential to release a demon from within it that would ultimately reek blood terror and insurmountable death until finally put down. I liked Merril for some reason.
I liked the rivalry romances?
They weren't uncomfortable to me.
I actually have more of an issue with Morrigan softening due to childbirth because that's not how babies work. Having children does not magically make you a better person.
Assuming that happens of course.
I think the problem with the rivalry romances was that there wasn't much distinguishing between disagreeing with the love interest and being a jerk to them.
It seems at least one of your romantic interest has to be involved in some Thedas changing/shattering stuff. Morrigan and the Old God baby. Anders and mage/templar war. Allistair and if he's going to take the throne. Merril's cute yet effectively soul crushing questline to restore a mirror that spread the Blight to the dalish warden and Temril in Origins, and had the potential to release a demon from within it that would ultimately reek blood terror and insurmountable death until finally put down. I liked Merril for some reason.
Is that bad? I think most people have liked when their LI has more of a role to play in the main/larger plot. I know I'm hoping that MORE of the LIs this time around are intrinsic to the plot in one way or another.
I think the problem with the rivalry romances was that there wasn't much distinguishing between disagreeing with the love interest and being a jerk to them.
That is very true. I did have to max the rivalry meter early so I didn't worry about picking every douchecanoe option for rivalry points. Thankfully most people's rivalry is relatively painless to max. (save Seb and Isabella). But I guess I feel it could be more tweaked on instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Personally, I don't mind the romance options that have a lot of drama (aka Morrigan and Anders). It's only a problem if one type of player is always stuck with this (aka if every gay romance ends in tragedy, or if every m/f romance ends with the female LI leaving forever, etc.). Maybe I'm overlooking something, but I haven't felt like that's a problem the DA games have had? The drama seems pretty well spread out.
I don't mind drama in romance either, generally. To be honest, I wouldn't be overly interested in a romance like Garrus. It's not enough passion for me, personally. He comes across more as a friend. I understand why other people like it. I don't mind helping people with problems and all that. Some sorts of problems just stand out to me as not great, like the sort Jack and Fenris have. I just can't feel good about getting into a sexual relationship with them. It feels like they're not ready for that and being a friend would be a better way to help them. Not that you can do anything like that for Jack.
Is that bad? I think most people have liked when their LI has more of a role to play in the main/larger plot.
No, I agree with you. I liked them more. Just thinking about that fact made me laugh.
Also, throwing it out there, why is it usually the female LI that are into the forbidden stuff? Morrigan using old magic that is likely outlawed by the chantry. Merril and her blood magic. Male LI didn't seem to go so forbidden magic or really anything. (save for Ander's last act of rebellion to start the war. Man, I liked Althena too.)
I don't mind drama in romance either, generally. To be honest, I wouldn't be overly interested in a romance like Garrus. It's not enough passion for me, personally. He comes across more as a friend. I understand why other people like it. I don't mind helping people with problems and all that. Some sorts of problems just stand out to me as not great, like the sort Jack and Fenris have. I just can't feel good about getting into a sexual relationship with them. It feels like they're not ready for that and being a friend would be a better way to help them. Not that you can do anything like that for Jack.
It took me forever to get to the Jack romance because I kept feeling like Shepard should be the one dude who doesn't treat her poorly. And maybe she just needed a friend, for once, with no sexual motivations. And then I did it. Which was moving, but also sort of... O.o because of the crying.
I only have one unfortunate romance stereotype to mention here :- "Lack Of Intelligent Males As Love Interests."
We just have NEVER had an intelligent man as a love interest. This does not just apply to Bioware games though, it applies to many other forms of media like television series.
With respect to Dragon Age, the only intelligent and scholarly males we have seen so far would be Solas. Evidently he is not a romance option.
Dorian seems to be someone, even though open minded, more on a crusade for a greater cause, not an intellectual who is interested in uncovering the mysteries of the universe, etc.
When it came to Mass Effect, the only properly intelligent male follower / companion in that series was Mordin Solus and you folks made him unavailable as well.
Why is it when it comes to male love interests, its always peppered with angsty brooding men or pretty handsome awkward men or huge buff muscular men ? Where is the love for the intelligent, intellectual man ?
FYI, I am a straight man myself. I only wonder about this because when I play as female characters or try to, I end up having nobody to romance. Which either means my female character ends up with no love interests or they become a lesbian.
There only seems to be intelligent female love interests around. Liara in Mass Effect who had a doctorate and worked as an archaeologist. I am a historian who has done some archeology work myself so I can really relate to her enthusiasm and even naivety towards Protheans even though one of the first things they teach you is to not have presumptions about your work.
Which is why I am interested in Josephine Montilyet. A diplomat who uses quills, inks and paper in an environment where magic and metal rule. That should imply that she has a sharp mind.
Is this a more general trope? Does it apply to women as well? Liara probably works on some level, but I can't think of much for particularly very smart people.
Also, do you mean more "intelligent" as though "an academic" or something similar? Like, I have a feeling if Cullen ended up being a rather cunning military strategist after all, that wouldn't satisfy this for you?
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