579 réponses à ce sujet

[Who Knows]

Would Quinn count?

 

*ponders*

I think he was more cunning and patriotic than anything else. He wasn't a walking reg book like Elara was.

[Reznore57]

I think what they're basically saying is that they want a brainy type. You might even use the word "nerdy". Like people expect Solas to be (whether he is, it's just the impression a lot of us have gotten) or even sort of like Mordin, to some extent. 

 

Yeah.Usually those men are too busy with their serious research and ain't interested in the pc...

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

I think "The romance seems no existent except between the two involved" is a trope many games have had, just seems like for the most part the romance only exists for brief moments and then is largely forgotten.  

[Who Knows]

I think "The romance seems no existent except between the two involved" is a trope many games have had, just seems like for the most part the romance only exists for brief moments and then is largely forgotten.  

I think Dragon Age has been pretty good about this one with the banter. But Mass Effect 1 and 2, and arguably 3, could have used more.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I think what they're basically saying is that they want a brainy type. You might even use the word "nerdy". Like people expect Solas to be (whether he is, it's just the impression a lot of us have gotten) or even sort of like Mordin, to some extent. 

 

YES ! However, sadly, I have run out of likes. But yes, we want nerdy, brainy, intelligent men as love interests. 

[Allan Schumacher]

In the case of Lelianna, Zevran, and Isabela, it kind of sticks.  The only other arguable rogues (which weren't LIs) would have been Nathaniel (broodish, not flirty or really charming), Sigrun (see was Legion of the Dead, kind of self explanatory), and Varrec (who while charming, isn't all that flirtatious.  And usually doesn't have a larger organization out to kill him, save for a part of the Carta).

 

Okay.  So while it may not *need* the romance to be done, it does seem to be applied more consistently towards rogues that happen to be love interests.  So thanks.

[Allan Schumacher]

I think what they're basically saying is that they want a brainy type. You might even use the word "nerdy". Like people expect Solas to be (whether he is, it's just the impression a lot of us have gotten) or even sort of like Mordin, to some extent. 

 

I think "Academic" still works the best.  Brainy/nerdy types can still be applied to a lot of things.  But yeah, a scholar that is very interested in learning/researching/understanding.

[metalfenix]

YES ! However, sadly, I have run out of likes. But yes, we want nerdy, brainy, intelligent men as love interests. 

 

I dunno, don't discard solas yet. (To my dismay, I want blackwall) Solas and Viv have a strong chance of being the last 2 Li. And he may fit the nerdy scholar type guy you seem to be wanting.

 

And besides, as allan pointed out, dorian have a good academic background on tevinter.

[Allan Schumacher]

I think "The romance seems no existent except between the two involved" is a trope many games have had, just seems like for the most part the romance only exists for brief moments and then is largely forgotten.  

 

This is largely a technical/cost challenge.  Because our games aren't really designed to focus around the romance content, but that we consider it an interesting option for people to do, I think on some level we're always going to have gaps here.  Especially beyond the interactions of just the PC and the LI.

 

It can just become a real challenge to coordinate, and there's still a lot of other things that are still going to need writing/design love too.

[Ailith Tycane]

Quick addition, none of the "leading" companions seem to ever be gay/lesbiam. Alistair and Morrigan were straight, Kaiden and Ashley were straight, Cassandra and Cullen (and potentially Varric) are straight. Queer LI roles seem to be given to "secondary" companions who are less important to the main storyline. 

 

Edit: I realize I misspelled lesbian, but lesbiam sounds funnier so I'm gonna leave it.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I think "Academic" still works the best.  Brainy/nerdy types can still be applied to a lot of things.  But yeah, a scholar that is very interested in learning/researching/understanding.

Sometimes it's hard to get across a descriptor because people take words different ways. I saw a whole debate the other day about the words lean vs slender. Haha. But yes, I think we're on page now.

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

This is largely a technical/cost challenge.  Because our games aren't really designed to focus around the romance content, but that we consider it an interesting option for people to do, I think on some level we're always going to have gaps here.  Especially beyond the interactions of just the PC and the LI.

 

It can just become a real challenge to coordinate, and there's still a lot of other things that are still going to need writing/design love too.

And I 100% understand that, I guess I'm envisioning a game where romance is still optional but if you do go for the romance it actually becomes an important part of the game? Almost turning the game in to a love story along with being a story of saving the world. But then again that's the romantic in me lol I like a good love story. 

[JadePrince]

Tangent: Does DA2's reality of having the romanceable characters all be bisexual complicate things in any way?  It seems to me (and my bias/ignorance) that Leliana and Zeveran come across as stronger examples, by virtue that missing them can literally mean that the content of DAO completely lacks non straight content.  DA2 does not.

 

I guess what I'm saying, with limited eloquence, is "is it an establishment and reinforcement of a pattern for bisexual LI to fit a trope, if a game's LI are all bisexual?"  If the answer to this is yes, does this enforce some sort of restriction on the content we should put into a game if it had all bisexual romances?

 

Sure. It did occur to me that it complicates things a bit. I think maybe, on second thought, I'm realizing that my bigger issue is that, with, I think, the exception of Merrill, all the bisexual LIs could be avoided, killed, or abandoned to some horrible fate. It's uncomfortable to think that Bioware might be (intentional or not) writing in "outs" for the homophobic (or homouncomfortable) players to either avoid or kill any bisexual love interests that they don't want to have to interact with.

 

Zevran could be killed immediately after you meet him, thus avoiding the recruitment.

Leliana could be avoided or killed (Andraste's ashes quest)

Isabela could be avoided or handed over to the Arishok

Fenris could be avoided or given back to Danarius

Ander could be killed (I almost hesitate to list this because it was a really well integrated plot option, but it still gave straight guy gamers the chance to essentially kill the gay man who hit on them)

 

I haven't played the other Bioware games, but I think it was said that:

 

Steve could die (?)
Kaidan you could chose to save someone else and thus let him die (?)

 

There was also a character I remember folks talking about from KOTOR, I think, who was a gay LI that was killable and that it was a thing that straight guys were bragging about killing him?

 

Anyone else want to/can add more?

[Allan Schumacher]

And I 100% understand that, I guess I'm envisioning a game where romance is still optional but if you do go for the romance it actually becomes an important part of the game? Almost turning the game in to a love story along with being a story of saving the world. But then again that's the romantic in me lol I like a good love story. 

 

I think that that would work best if we made a game where a romance was a key part of the game (maybe like FF8 or something like that).  Not saying that we can't do that, but unless it is I think it'll always be a problem.

 

As it stands, the biggest part of that is that a valid complaint I find (especially with say, ME games) is that romance content was almost the ONLY companion content people got.  Which isn't ideal by any means.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

To me, virginal romance trope becomes a tad repetitive. Alistair, Merrill, Sebastian and now Cullen. Alistair and Cullen especially look like twins.

First, Sebastian wasn't a virgin. 

 

Second, I'd prefer more virgin romances. So far there are 1 per game at best. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'd love for their to be a "No sex before marriage" LI type. I'm tired of nothing but pre-marital sex LIs when I don't adhere to that kind of stuff. 

[siphernin]

I'd love for their to be a "No sex before marriage" LI type. I'm tired of nothing but pre-marital sex LIs when I don't adhere to that kind of stuff. 

Well, there was technically Sebastian.

[Ailith Tycane]

Well, there was technically Sebastian.

 

That's true, but he was by no means a virgin, which was also something she expressed she wanted. 

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

I think that that would work best if we made a game where a romance was a key part of the game (maybe like FF8 or something like that).  Not saying that we can't do that, but unless it is I think it'll always be a problem.

 

As it stands, the biggest part of that is that a valid complaint I find (especially with say, ME games) is that romance content was almost the ONLY companion content people got.  Which isn't ideal by any means.

Yeah I understand that, I mean don't get me wrong I don't mean to sound ungrateful or anything I always though Dragon Age did romance better than Mass Effect and I was happy when you guys announced that romance was getting an overhaul 

[Gamemako]

Quick addition, none of the "leading" companions seem to ever be gay/lesbiam. Alistair and Morrigan were straight, Kaiden and Ashley were straight, Cassandra and Cullen (and potentially Varric) are straight. Queer LI roles seem to be given to "secondary" companions who are less important to the main storyline. 
 
Edit: I realize I misspelled lesbian, but lesbiam sounds funnier so I'm gonna leave it.

You can make some argument about Alistair and Morrigan (being unskippable companions where Zev and Leliana can both be left behind), but Kaiden is bisexual in ME3 and Liara was the only non-hetero option through ME1 and ME2. Cassandra may be straight, but you can't take Cullen on missions with you and he isn't really more important than Sera or Dorian. There are also 2 homosexual companion romances and 1 heterosexual companion romance.

[Maria Caliban]

I'd love for their to be a "No sex before marriage" LI type. I'm tired of nothing but pre-marital sex LIs when I don't adhere to that kind of stuff.

Yeah, the thing is that if you have that LI type, they can only be straight. Which means the queer LI will end up being the sexually adventurous, non-conventional one again.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

On the point of killable/skipable gay/bi companions, I think it's easy to see it as that there are a lot of straight or sexuality unstated (non-LI) companions that also can be skipped or killed, but when someone can't be skipped or killed, they're usually straight. It's not that killing/skipping never happens to straight companions, it's just that not being so rarely happens with gay/bi ones. This time, I'd guess Cassandra, Cullen and Josephine can't be killed or skipped. Are there others? I don't know, I might be wrong, but from what we know it sort of looks like both straight LIs were given that distinction, no gay LIs and only one bi LI. I totally admit I'm assuming, but it's unfortunate if true.

[Allan Schumacher]

Sure. It did occur to me that it complicates things a bit. I think maybe, on second thought, I'm realizing that my bigger issue is that, with, I think, the exception of Merrill, all the bisexual LIs could be avoided, killed, or abandoned to some horrible fate. It's uncomfortable to think that Bioware might be (intentional or not) writing in "outs" for the homophobic (or homouncomfortable) players to either avoid or kill any bisexual love interests that they don't want to have to interact with.

 

Zevran could be killed immediately after you meet him, thus avoiding the recruitment.

Leliana could be avoided or killed (Andraste's ashes quest)

Isabela could be avoided or handed over to the Arishok

Fenris could be avoided or given back to Danarius

Ander could be killed (I almost hesitate to list this because it was a really well integrated plot option, but it still gave straight guy gamers the chance to essentially kill the gay man who hit on them)

 

I haven't played the other Bioware games, but I think it was said that:

 

Steve could die (?)
Kaidan you could chose to save someone else and thus let him die (?)

 

There was also a character I remember folks talking about from KOTOR, I think, who was a gay LI that was killable and that it was a thing that straight guys were bragging about killing him?

 

Anyone else want to/can add more?

 

We'd have to do a bit more thorough analysis over who can die among the LI.

 

 

From DAO:

Alistair can die

Leliana can die

Zevran can die

(I don't think Morrigan can?)

 

 

From DA2:

 

Isabela/Fenris/Anders can all have **** things happen to them.  Merrill is free?  I cannot remember

 

 

 

From Mass Effect 1:

 

The choice is between Ashley and Kaiden, whom are both LI, between who lives and who dies.

 

 

ME2:

 

All companions (LI or not) can end up dead in the game.

 

 

ME3
I'm not sure, TBH.  Beyond Steve crashing and whatnot.  I think with extended cut, anyone can die at the very end.

 

 

The Mass Effect games, however, have poor LGBT representation in general.

 

 

We could just be giant monsters that likes to kill off love interests!  How does the distribution look to you?