231 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't know why, but I have a slight suspicion that we'll come from Zathrian's clan, which would be Lanaya's now. Since Zathrian even disappears in the epilogue if he survives.

Doesn't work since that clan can be wiped out. 

[Steelcan]

Merrill never said Audacity was a good spirit; she actually cautions that spirits are dangerous, but that you can gather intel from them, as long as you're careful. Hawke can do precisely this with the Profane Abomination, to learn about the situation in the primeval thaig, and with Torpor, to discover Feynriel is being fought over by two competing spirits; neither scenario requires Hawke to make a bargain with them, or to completely trust either one.

 

 

The elves took issue with armed and armored religious soldiers trespassing into their kingdom. The militant arm of the Chantry who believe that they have "dominion over mages by divine right". I can see a myriad of issues arise by having the Chantry's military trespassing into foreign territory, where there are free mages, and followers of a different faith.

 

 

The Chantry certainly claims that was when it formally started, but we don't know whether or not that's actually the case. If humans were invading the Dales before Red Crossing, then the war started much earlier for the elves.

Yet Audactiy is giving up knowledge of blood magic for free, in complete defiance of everything we have seen before involving it?  Merrill is just that good a talker?

 

The War starts when the War starts, there is no ambiguity about what day war is declared on

[MisterJB]

No developer has clarified who started the war. Even World of Thedas is intentionally ambiguous about who started the war. We don't actually know what caused the inception of the war between the humans and the elves.

Unless we assume that something entirely different from what both sides claim happened, then we can reach a logical conclusion over what ocurred.

 

The Dalish claim "First missionaries, then Templars." but they don't provide a timeline.

Therefore, and accepting that the attack on Red Crossing and the Exalted March only having been called as the elves were marching upon Val-Royeaux are true, then we have two options.

 

1-The Chantry sent missionaries who were kicked out and afterwards, Templars. The Dales responded with an attack on an Orlesian city and Orlais is not more indistinguishable from the Chantry than Italy is from the Roman Catholic Church.

They may have the center of the faith located within their borders but that doesn't mean their civillans are holy warriors.

Therefore, in this situation, the elves started the large scale war by attacking Orlais.

 

2-The Templars the Dalish refer to are those who came with the Exalted March to uproot elven settlements in the Dales in which case, the attack on Red Crossing was caused by nothing but missionaries.

Same as before, the Dalish started the war with Orlais.

 

 

 

If the templars were stationed at Red Crossing, then it would explain why the elves attacked. If the templars were kidnapping or killing free mages, or assaulting people in attempts to convert them, then it would have caused a serious issue for many people in the Dales.

And none of those possibilities change the fact that Red Crossing is an Orlesian city whose only act of agression towards the Dales would have been selling good to these Templars.

 

 

[umadcommander]

when it comes to the war lets face it, both sides wanted a good blood-letting to happen, just so happened that the chantry forces were stronger

[Plague Doctor D.]

But if the darkspawn do head to the surface it's highly likely they'll try to overwhelm the dwarves first. They're not smart creatures.

 

I doubt it.Didnt the Architect say that all his ritual does is removing the song?

That would mean that all Darkspawn that are left after the last blight would become awakened,right?

[LobselVith8]

WoT straight up says that the Elves attack Red Crossing starting the war....

 

WoT reads that Red Crossing was attacked, but it never takes a side in stating which side started the war. In fact, it's an incredibly condensed version of events that omits a great deal of information.

[EmperorSahlertz]

WoT reads that Red Crossing was attacked, but it never takes a side in stating which side started the war. In fact, it's an incredibly condensed version of events that omits a great deal of information.

Considering that there WASN'T a war prior to, and that what happened next was the Elves sacking Montsimmard, it is more than abundantly clear who started it. But I know we won't ever reach through to you, since you are a known elf-apologist.

[Tora Panthera]

Doesn't work since that clan can be wiped out. 

 

Ah yes, I forgot that option. I always go with the compromise myself. ^^'

[Ryzaki]

I doubt it.Didnt the Architect say that all his ritual does is removing the song?

That would mean that all Darkspawn that are left after the last blight would become awakened,right?

 

That's assuming you left him alive. I sure in hell didn't.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Ah yes, I forgot that option. I always go with the compromise myself. ^^'

I do as well. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Oh Criminy, does every single thread that even mentions the Dalish always have to descend into a heated (and circular) debate on whether or not the elves brought Fall of the Dales on themselves and/or deserve their current systematic oppression?? Not to mention Merrill...

The Dalish as a people aren't all that deep, so it is basically the only things there are to discuss.

[LobselVith8]

Yet Audactiy is giving up knowledge of blood magic for free, in complete defiance of everything we have seen before involving it?  Merrill is just that good a talker?

 

Considering Audacity has been sundered from the Fade (the Beyond) for over a millennia and is trapped, and absolutely no one mentions a deal being brokered, I don't see why you're so insistent to make this claim. Audacity is bound to a statute unless someone intentionally releases it. Apparently, Marethari ended up doing precisely that, so it seemed Audacity had a plan all along.

 

The War starts when the War starts, there is no ambiguity about what day war is declared on

 

There is ambiguity as to who started the war. Even WoT never takes a side in the conflicting historical accounts.

[umadcommander]

The Dalish as a people aren't all that deep, so it is basically the only things there are to discuss.

we could mention how they summoned a forbidden one and now its running amok?

[EmperorSahlertz]

we could mention how they summoned a forbidden one and now its running amok?

Or how they cursed hundreds of humans to the curses of Lycanthropy for a crime they didn't commit?

[Plague Doctor D.]

That's assuming you left him alive. I sure in hell didn't.

Thats not my point.He says that all he did was remove the song if im not mistaken.That would mean that all Darkspawn who cant hear the song are awakened.And since the song will be gone for good after the last Archdemon,that would mean that all remaining Darkspawn will become awakened after the last blight.

That'll change things up for sure.^^

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Thats not my point.He says that all he did was remove the song if im not mistaken.That would mean that all Darkspawn who cant hear the song are awakened.And since the song will be gone for good after the last Archdemon,that would mean that all remaining Darkspawn will become awakened after the last blight.

That'll change things up for sure.^^

Well, Corypheus also produces the song. And I wouldn't be surprised if Morrigan's OGB will as well. 

[LobselVith8]

Unless we assume that something entirely different from what both sides claim happened, then we can reach a logical conclusion over what ocurred.

 

The Dalish claim "First missionaries, then Templars." but they don't provide a timeline.

Therefore, and accepting that the attack on Red Crossing and the Exalted March only having been called as the elves were marching upon Val-Royeaux are true, then we have two options.

 

1-The Chantry sent missionaries who were kicked out and afterwards, Templars. The Dales responded with an attack on an Orlesian city and Orlais is not more indistinguishable from the Chantry than Italy is from the Roman Catholic Church.

They may have the center of the faith located within their borders but that doesn't mean their civillans are holy warriors.

Therefore, in this situation, the elves started the large scale war by attacking Orlais.

 

The entry reads that the templars were sent as a response to the missionaries being kicked out, and we have Dalish, City Elf, and WoT all reading that the elves following a different religion was an issue for the Chantry. WoT even reads, "the elven rejection of the Maker became cause for Chantry ire."

 

2-The Templars the Dalish refer to are those who came with the Exalted March to uproot elven settlements in the Dales in which case, the attack on Red Crossing was caused by nothing but missionaries.

Same as before, the Dalish started the war with Orlais.

 

If that was the case, then it wouldn't be as part of the same sentence, nor would the elven protagonist be able to reference this in condemnation for the Chantry invading the Dales over the refusal of the elves to convert.

 

And none of those possibilities change the fact that Red Crossing is an Orlesian city whose only act of agression towards the Dales would have been selling good to these Templars.

 

Or, if the templars were stationed there, then they could have been the targets of the Dalish.

 

At this point, it's impossible to know, and I doubt the developers will ever clarify who was right and wrong. Even Corypheus' presence in Legacy caused many debates as to whether or not the City was even Black when the Magisters arrived, and I doubt it will be any different for the war of the Dales. There are at least two sides to the story, and it's doubtful any of us will ever know the truth.

[Steelcan]

Considering Audacity has been sundered from the Fade (the Beyond) for over a millennia and is trapped, and absolutely no one mentions a deal being brokered, I don't see why you're so insistent to make this claim. Audacity is bound to a statute unless someone intentionally releases it. Apparently, Marethari ended up doing precisely that, so it seemed Audacity had a plan all along.

 

 

There is ambiguity as to who started the war. Even WoT never takes a side in the conflicting historical accounts.

So the demon taught her blood magic out of the goodness of his heart?  Unless thats what happened there had to be a deal going down.

 

There is no ambiguity whatsoever about when the war starts, it started when Red Crossing was sattacked, the build up to the war is another matter.

 

 

for example, the Second Punic War was started when the Carthiginians moved past a river they were forbidden from by the treaty ending the First Punic War.  That is agreed upon, however, it is unclear what river was crossed, and whether the Carthiginians were aware that this river was the one they could not cross. (and some unpleasantness about a Roman ally)  However the causes of the war were Carthiginian ambitions in Spain, the resurgence of Carthage's economy, and Rome's Imperial ambitions in the Mediterranean.

[EmperorSahlertz]

You mean the one Dalish Keeper did that?

 

You want me to talk about the one noble that went around kidnapping, torturing, purging, and slave-trading in Denerim and then talk about how all human nobles are power-hungry tyrants?

You can talk all you want about that. And you will even be so lucky as to not find anyone dismissing the horrific actions of these persons, just because they happen to be part of a group they like.

[Mistic]

Am I the only one who hopes that DA:I will clarify the Dales issue? It will be the last chance, I'm afraid, since we are visiting the Dales, the origin of everything, and then it's likely that the next DA games will happen in other countries. Maybe I'm wrong, but it would be nice to have more codex entries.

 

Not that it will stop the discussions, mind you.

 

we could mention how they summoned a forbidden one and now its running amok?

 

Well, to be fair, the Dalish bounded it. It was Michel who released the demon, being even more stupid than them.

[LobselVith8]

we could mention how they summoned a forbidden one and now its running amok?

 

Because a chevalier set the spirit free.

[MisterJB]

Well, we could talk a bit about a possible elven homelands and discuss the problems it will encounter given how, in the event of an elven exodus, we're talking about different population from disparate cultures attempting to co-exist together.

Plus, the rebirth of elven culture seems unlikely given how the city elves are much more numerous than the Dalish.

[Ryzaki]

Thats not my point.He says that all he did was remove the song if im not mistaken.That would mean that all Darkspawn who cant hear the song are awakened.And since the song will be gone for good after the last Archdemon,that would mean that all remaining Darkspawn will become awakened after the last blight.

That'll change things up for sure.^^

 

As Sasha said Corry and those like produce the song as well. It's more likely they'd be dragged into a nother big bad.

 

But after all those are dead hm...I don't see awakened darkspawn as particularly intelligent without a leader like the Architect or Cory at the helm. They'd still be extremely dangerous but I believe they'd be able to be fought back to a standstill.