231 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

Am I the only one who hopes that DA:I will clarify the Dales issue? It will be the last chance, I'm afraid, since we are visiting the Dales, the origin of everything, and then it's likely that the next DA games will happen in other countries. Maybe I'm wrong, but it would be nice to have more codex entries.

 

Not that it will stop the discussions, mind you.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it turns out that both sides were played by the same big bad that has been setting up events prior to Inquisition...

[MisterJB]

Because a chevalier set the spirit

That was because of his elf half.

[Steelcan]

Because a chevalier set the spirit free.

and they summoned it, because summoning a demon has never ever ever backfired

[umadcommander]

and they summoned it, because summoning a demon has never ever ever backfired

nothing can go wrong

[Mistic]

Well, we could talk a bit about a possible elven homelands and discuss the problems it will encounter given how, in the event of an elven exodus, we're talking about different population from disparate cultures attempting to co-exist together.

Plus, the rebirth of elven culture seems unlikely given how the city elves are much more numerous than the Dalish.

 

Oh, yes, that would be a welcome change.

 

Yes, it's certainly a problem. Let's suppose that the City Elves manage to get a free elven land. It's very likely that they would get many city elf migrants, but I don't see the Dalish doing the same. After all, the City Elves would be superior in numbers in places such as Halamshiral.

 

And before someone says that the Dalish are spread in clans, so they can be more, there are City Elves in most human settlements, so their number also grows apart from the Alienages in the capital cities. So yeah, I see problems with the Dalish in such a case. Expecting City Elves to abandon their customs and religion just because they are not "the elven way" doesn't sound feasible at all. Unless the Dalish become the new Thalmor, but in that case I would join the first Exalted March against them.

[LobselVith8]

Am I the only one who hopes that DA:I will clarify the Dales issue? It will be the last chance, I'm afraid, since we are visiting the Dales, the origin of everything, and then it's likely that the next DA games will happen in other countries. Maybe I'm wrong, but it would be nice to have more codex entries.

 

Not that it will stop the discussions, mind you.

 

I don't expect it to be clarified. It happened centuries ago; I suspect both sides will still blame the war, and neither one will be addressed as the true culprit by the developers or the narrative. What I'm hoping for is that the elven protagonist will be given a genuine elven perspective - invoking the Beyond instead of the Fade, addressing spirits instead of Spirits and Demons, being informed about the Creators and the Eternal City, and understanding how difficult it is to be an elf in a human dominated continent.

 

Being able to participate in the struggle for an elven homeland would be great, too. Emancipating the Dales from Orlesian control is something I would pursue with an elven Inquisitor.

 

Well, to be fair, the Dalish bounded it. It was Michel who released the demon, being even more stupid than them.

 

Clan Virnehn.  I suspect Michel may be an NPC in Inquisition, and that the Inquisitor can nullify the threat posed by this spirit of choice.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Not necessarily. A fundamental part of city elf culture is trying to hold onto as much of their ancestral history, culture, and identity as much as they can despite centuries of cultural erosion living in human cities. Most Dalish have had better opportunity to discover, expand upon and preserve the same ancestral information the city elves have been trying to keep from slipping away like water through their fingers for centuries. I think if the Dalish and city elves did come together and the Dalish offered the knowledge they've acquired, most of the city elves would gobble it up.

They'd only share it with those elves who are willing to subjugate themselves to the Dalish ways. They don't think kindly on City Elves otherwise.

[Lorien19]

we could mention how they summoned a forbidden one and now its running amok?

Please put a spoiler tag at least...

Anyway,we don't know much about the Dalish and the Dales as the devs left many parts ambiguous.
And for a good reason,considering that the Dalish don't know much about their past either,as well as most of their lore is lost.
Hopefully we'll learn more about their lore in Inquisition(those who want to know more at least).

This thread however,was created so that we can speculate and discuss the potential background,of a Dalish inquisitor.
Further discussions,concerning events from the previous games or even TME spoilers,tend to evolve on heated debates that usually last for pages.
I wouldn't like to see this thread locked,for being out of topic.

I assume that our pc's clan,was either in Ferelden at the time,or maybe according to another theory the Inquisitor was sent as a Dalish representative,in the peace gathering.

[LobselVith8]

They'd only share it with those elves who are willing to subjugate themselves to the Dalish ways. They don't think kindly on City Elves otherwise.

 

The views held by some don't reflect the views of most of the Dalish. We've met only a small number of clans, but they come around when the protagonist shows that he or she isn't the typical outsider who threatens the clan (including Sarel, who comments positively depending on the good actions performed by The Warden). I think it would be perfectly in-character for an elven Inquisitor to care about his or her city brethren, similar to Merrill expressing concern for the plight faced by the Alienage elves, or wanting Kelder dead to protect elven children from this serial killer.

[Steelcan]

maybe according to another theory the Inquisitor was sent as a Dalish representative,in the peace gathering.

unlinkely, its not like the great human powers care much what the elves think

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The views held by some don't reflect the views of most of the Dalish. We've met only a small number of clans, but they come around when the protagonist shows that he or she isn't the typical outsider who threatens the clan (including Sarel, who comments positively depending on the good actions performed by The Warden). I think it would be perfectly in-character for an elven Inquisitor to care about his or her city brethren, similar to Merrill expressing concern for the plight faced by the Alienage elves, or wanting Kelder dead to protect elven children from this serial killer.

I was talking Dalish nation, not Dalish Inquisitor. 

 

So far the Dalish have only been kind to people in two types of instances:

1) City Elf who wants to become Dalish.

2) Person can be useful to their needs. 

 

Not exactly a good slogan of hospitality. "Dalish: You're welcome here if you join or serve us."

[Lorien19]

They'd only share it with those elves who are willing to subjugate themselves to the Dalish ways. They don't think kindly on City Elves otherwise.

Well,I wouldn't call it subjugation exactly ,since the city elves who join the Dalish,do so willingly I assume that,they know that they follow the old ways.
And they are treated as equal members of the clan,afterwards.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well,I wouldn't call it subjugation exactly ,since the city elves who join the Dalish,do so willingly I assume that,they know that they follow the old ways.
And they are treated as equal members of the clan,afterwards.

If the Dalish are in charge of the elven nation, then subjugation is a very accurate word since it'll basically be their way or the highway. 

[Lorien19]

unlinkely, its not like the great human powers care much what the elves think

The Dalish keepers are mages however,which suggests that they might involuntarily have gotten involved in the mage-Templar
War as well.

[Lorien19]

If the Dalish are in charge of the elven nation, then subjugation is a very accurate word since it'll basically be their way or the highway.

I have no doubt on this,but this is isn't entirely a "Dalish mindset".
Considering that all nations pretty much work this way already.

[A Clever Name]

 

I was talking Dalish nation, not Dalish Inquisitor. 

 

So far the Dalish have only been kind to people in two types of instances:

1) City Elf who wants to become Dalish.

2) Person can be useful to their needs. 

 

Not exactly a good slogan of hospitality. "Dalish: You're welcome here if you join or serve us." 

Think about it, though - would you automatically extend your welcome to outsiders, given a history of violence perpetrated against your people by them?  That sort of lifestyle hardens you, and breeds a lack of trust.  It's like when you first meet someone.  They might seem distant and harsh, but given enough time they'll warm up to you.  One way of doing this is to make sure they understand you're not a threat.  I've met a lot of people like this - refugees especially seem tight-lipped and unwilling to open up at first.  Is it necessarily the best way to handle outside contact?  Probably not.  Does it make sense?  Definitely.  That's why I can't really blame them for being mistrustful.  It's a frustration for sure, though, and one that doesn't help to put them in a better light with humans/elves that live in the city.

 

Now that it's been brought up, why would the Dalish be at the peace summit?  Maybe they did get involved in the war somehow, as Lorien19 suggested - maybe the Templars started attacking the Dalish because they have apostates?

[Mistic]

I don't expect it to be clarified. It happened centuries ago; I suspect both sides will still blame the war, and neither one will be addressed as the true culprit by the developers or the narrative. What I'm hoping for is that the elven protagonist will be given a genuine elven perspective - invoking the Beyond instead of the Fade, addressing spirits instead of Spirits and Demons, being informed about the Creators and the Eternal City, and understanding how difficult it is to be an elf in a human dominated continent.

 

I suspect the same, but I can dream, can't I? And the Dales isn't even the most heated issue out there. I mean, they already confirmed that Tevinter Magisters were really involved in the origin of the darkspawn (we don't know the details, but at least that part was correct), so who knows.

 

Being able to participate in the struggle for an elven homeland would be great, too. Emancipating the Dales from Orlesian control is something I would pursue with an elven Inquisitor.

 

Then the real questions start: what would that elven country be like? Wouldn't the City Elves be the majority? What would happen about religion? Language? What about the mages? External threats are secondary if the elves themselves can't agree on those things. Hey, Fereldans and Orlesians are humans and White Chantry Andrastians, yet they hate each other.

 

[MisterJB]

Not necessarily. A fundamental part of city elf culture is trying to hold onto as much of their ancestral history, culture, and identity as much as they can despite centuries of cultural erosion living in human cities. Most Dalish have had better opportunity to discover, expand upon and preserve the same ancestral information the city elves have been trying to keep from slipping away like water through their fingers. I think if the Dalish and city elves came together and the Dalish offered to share the knowledge they've acquired, most of the city elves would gobble it up.

 

Unlikely. The city elves' attempt at the preservation of their culture extends to a tree and there is a codex entry mentioning how one Alienage burned it for wood. Iona will remark how the city elves of Ferelden sing the same songs as the humans, speak the same tongue, worship the same god and that the only thing setting them apart are the ears.

Anderfel elves will be firmly Andrastean, the Orlesian elves believe duplicity is a virtue, Nevarran elves probably believe in mummifying their dead, etc.

Pol was still saying "Andraste" and "Maker" seven years after joining with that clan and he was a minority and thus, subject to Dalish culture.

 

However, the clan in TME had only round 50 members. Meanwhile, Val-Royeaux's alienage alone has 10000 elves. You think that if all city elves and all dalish moved to the Dales, that the culture that would prevail would be the Dalish one?

 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

 

Think about it, though - would you automatically extend your welcome to outsiders, given a history of violence perpetrated against your people by them?  That sort of lifestyle hardens you, and breeds a lack of trust.  It's like when you first meet someone.  They might seem distant and harsh, but given enough time they'll warm up to you.  One way of doing this is to make sure they understand you're not a threat.  I've met a lot of people like this - refugees especially seem tight-lipped and unwilling to open up at first.  Is it necessarily the best way to handle outside contact?  Probably not.  Does it make sense?  Definitely.  That's why I can't really blame them for being mistrustful.  It's a frustration for sure, though, and one that doesn't help to put them in a better light with humans/elves that live in the city.

 

Now that it's been brought up, why would the Dalish be at the peace summit?  Maybe they did get involved in the war somehow, as Lorien19 suggested - maybe the Templars started attacking the Dalish because they have apostates?

 

With humans and possibly Qunari, I get that. But not Dwarves and especially not City Elves. The fact they don't see City Elves as part of the People unless they come crawling to them to be converted is what I hate most about the Dalish. 

[LobselVith8]

Oh, yes, that would be a welcome change.

 

Yes, it's certainly a problem. Let's suppose that the City Elves manage to get a free elven land. It's very likely that they would get many city elf migrants, but I don't see the Dalish doing the same. After all, the City Elves would be superior in numbers in places such as Halamshiral.

 

And before someone says that the Dalish are spread in clans, so they can be more, there are City Elves in most human settlements, so their number also grows apart from the Alienages in the capital cities. So yeah, I see problems with the Dalish in such a case. Expecting City Elves to abandon their customs and religion just because they are not "the elven way" doesn't sound feasible at all. Unless the Dalish become the new Thalmor, but in that case I would join the first Exalted March against them.

 

I can see some problems arising due to their conflicting ideologies and religious views if the two tried to live together. How would the Andrastian elves treat the elven mages among the Dalish, given the opposing view of magic? Would some of the Andrastian elves try to convert the Dalish? How will elven followers of the Makers react to living alongside follows of the Creators when it's taught that the Maker will only return once the Chant is sung from the four corners of the world? Would the Andrastian elves who regard the Dalish as savages be willing to cooperate with them?

 

Perhaps it would take a charismatic leader to bring them together.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I can see some problems arising due to their conflicting ideologies and religious views if the two tried to live together. How would the Andrastian elves treat the elven mages among the Dalish, given the opposing view of magic? Would some of the Andrastian elves try to convert the Dalish? How will elven followers of the Makers react to living alongside follows of the Creators when it's taught that the Maker will only return once the Chant is sung from the four corners of the world? Would the Andrastian elves who regard the Dalish as savages be willing to cooperate with them?

 

Perhaps it would take a charismatic leader to bring them together.

I like how you don't give a single example of the Dalish pushing their beliefs on City Elves, but only City Elves pushing beliefs on the Dalish. 

[LobselVith8]

I suspect the same, but I can dream, can't I? And the Dales isn't even the most heated issue out there. I mean, they already confirmed that Tevinter Magisters were really involved in the origin of the darkspawn (we don't know the details, but at least that part was correct), so who knows.

 

If the City was already Black, were they even the first darkspawn? So many debates. So many.

 

Then the real questions start: what would that elven country be like? Wouldn't the City Elves be the majority? What would happen about religion? Language? What about the mages? External threats are secondary if the elves themselves can't agree on those things. Hey, Fereldans and Orlesians are humans and White Chantry Andrastians, yet they hate each other.

 

I think there are a number of problems that can take place, even among the elves who never lived among the Dalish. Devout Anders elves, colorful Orlesian elves, dangerous Antivan elves, Qunari elves - there are a number of problems that can arise simply among them on their own, much less if you include an influx of the People coming to a promise land for the Elvhen.

[MisterJB]

I can see some problems arising due to their conflicting ideologies and religious views if the two tried to live together. How would the Andrastian elves treat the elven mages among the Dalish, given the opposing view of magic? Would some of the Andrastian elves try to convert the Dalish? How will elven followers of the Makers react to living alongside follows of the Creators when it's taught that the Maker will only return once the Chant is sung from the four corners of the world? Would the Andrastian elves who regard the Dalish as savages be willing to cooperate with them?

 

Perhaps it would take a charismatic leader to bring them together.

 

And you don't think the Dalish clans who, at best, believe that it is their duty to reeducate the city elves and, at worst, think they've been ireedemeably tainted would create problems?
 

[LobselVith8]

I like how you don't give a single example of the Dalish pushing their beliefs on City Elves, but only City Elves pushing beliefs on the Dalish. 

 

Since you're already participating in this thread, why would I even need to?