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Constructive Criticism Of The Demos


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#1
Bayonet Hipshot

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So I just thought I would post my criticisms on the two demos that we have been shown so far. These are my criticisms, I hope that they are constructive in nature and helps in giving a proper feedback.

 

1) The miscellaneous quest / fetch quest. In the first demo, we see a bereaved woman whose husband was evidently killed by templars and his wedding ring was stolen from his body. 

 

Did anyone notice how weird that whole quest played out ? There was a severe lack of proper interaction between the quest giving NPC and the playable character, our female Qunari mage. There was no greetings, no consoling, no options to investigate more, nothing of the sort.

 

It was as if the woman saw the Inquisitor and said "Right, you will get my ring for me because you look important." to which you the Inquisitor reply "Okay, goodbye." and just left. That was really weird and awkward. People do not interact in that manner. We start off by greeting one another, asking what is wrong, asking further details, giving some emotionally supportive lines and then we say goodbye.I mean the was no further probing on where did the Templars who killed her husband went, when did she last saw them, etc. Nothing. 

 

If anything, that fetch quest reminds me of the horrendous Mass Effect 3's fetch quests where you just overhear what people say, go across the galaxy, do fancy scanning and then give the item to the people back. This one is slightly less worse.

 

I hope something is done to change that. 

 

2) Wild animals. The bear encounter. Now this being next-gen, I perhaps expected something more than just hack, slash, magic to kill the bears. I thought we could have dynamic and intelligent animal behavior. 

 

By this I mean we could perhaps have the option to scare wild animals off. This is what many people do in real life, primarily using fire. So perhaps a mage could cast the Wall of Fire to scare the bear off.

 

Alternatively, animals, when attacked sufficiently and when they know they are not winning this fight, will run away. Basic fight or flight situation. I thought if we just attacked the bear a bit, we could chase it off or something ? 

 

Then there is what happened when the bear is dead. We just left it there. I mean, the Hinterland is embroiled in a war, food must be scarce and the least we could do is perhaps harvest the carcass for meat and pelts and give them away to the local populace or use it for the Inquisition. 

 

3) Dragons. As I understand it, dragons in Thedas are not, say, like dragons in Tamriel. Dragons in Thedas are wild beasts, not highly intelligent beings.

 

The thing with wild beasts is that they act in a certain manner. Most wild beasts keep to themselves, away from humans. Most wild beasts do not attack unless they are provoked.

 

Which then raises a question ? What is the reason to kill the dragons ? They are not doing anything bad. The ones in the demo are nesting in an outskirt / wild area and generally minding their own business. Even the one in DA:O did not attack you at all unless you provoked  / called it using the horn. 

 

Is there any story reason to kill them ? Or is it just honor, glory and powerful materials to make items from ? Just wondering about it. The main big bad in this game is demons so dragons are not our enemy. They are certainly not the purpose the Inquisition is re-founded. 

 

4) Leliana. First, the torture scene. It was nothing and I mean nothing like a torture scene. There was absolutely no signs of torture on Leliana. She was with her full armor and her face was clean ! She even had her lip gloss on ! That is not how torture works ! This game has a mature rating for a reason but we are not getting a mature content. 

 

Then there is how she killed the Venatori torturer. The man was wearing heavy armor with heavy helmet. I challenge you to find anyone who can squeeze freaking metallic helmet and break the neck of the heavy armor wearer with their thighs.

 

The whole scene was highly and I mean highly unrealistic. It was facepalm-worthy. For a kids animation series, perhaps that might have passed as a torture scene but for a mature role playing game ? Nope.

 

Then, she gets up, gets her weapons and tells Dorian and the Inquisitor to stuff it. Isn't Leliana our adviser ? I am pretty sure while we asked her to infiltrate the castle, Leliana herself willingly went to do this. So why the sour grapes ? Why the bitchy attitude ? Dorian did not do anything to her. She just followed the orders a leader gave. The order and the plan did not work out so well apparently as she seems surprised that we were alive but again, that is the reality of command, no ? I am pretty sure Leliana took the mission knowing full well what the risks are. She is an experienced infiltrator, no ? 

 

Plus, the whole line about mages. Didn't she realize that she is being rescued by two mages ? Talk about being foolish. 

 

Then there is the part with Alexius. Laidlaw clearly states during the demo that having Dorian opens up options. We the observer can see this as well. Dorian was talking to Alexius, Alexius was showing signs of regret, the Inquisitor was asking for the amulet while promising to let Alexius & Felix go....Then in comes Leliana who slashes Felix's throat and starts the fight.

 

A fight which in my opinion, could have been avoided if Leliana did not act out of line. The Inquisitor gave no such orders to her. We did not see the Inquisitor asking Leliana to execute Felix. She is our adviser isn't she, not something else ?

 

What was that about choices ? Seriously, I thought that whole debacle with Alexius could have been settled diplomatically with Dorian there. Leliana just ruined that.

 

After the fight is over, we then send two of our four companions out to hold the enemy forces off. I would have liked to switch to Iron Bull and Sera, fighting the Venatori forces and demons, holding them off, like we did in DA:O on our way to fight the Archdemon in Denerim.

 

That would have been fantastic. However, nothing of the sort happened.

 

Then we get Leliana getting all badass on us telling that  we have as much time as she has arrows and then we have a cutscene where she goes on to valiantly fight the enemy off and then whack them with a wooden bow ? Whacking a heavily armored soldier with a wooden bow ? 

 

That cutscene was, in my opinion, entirely unnecessary. We could have actually have the option to instead play as Leliana, taking command of her and let her fight the demonic forces off. She is an Orlesian bard who has been through the Blight with the Warden and worked as the Hand of the Divine right ? Surely we could have actually played as her and if we are not skilled enough, she loses and the whole scene of her being captured takes place. 

 

Which is something that is quite similar to the scene with Anora, Cautherien and the Warden at Arl Howe's Estate. The fight was optional but if you were skilled, you could power through and gotten out of there. There was no need for a cutscene. 

 

I would have preferred to have more agency as a player as well have my choices matter. Leliana in the demo practically destroyed those two options completely. 

 

So here are my criticisms on the demo. Personally, my biggest criticism is on Leliana and the fetch quest that were shown. The rest was suggestions. 

 

Thoughts and comments ? I would like the discussion to remain civil. 

 

Cheers.  B)


  • Althix, Mir Aven, ForgottenWarrior et 4 autres aiment ceci

#2
John Epler

John Epler
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Your option re: fetch quests is not between that and a quest with context, cinematics, etc.

 

It is, literally, an additional way to get quests and to interact with NPCs. It is not 'these types of quests or top quality quests!', but rather 'these types of quests or no quests'.

 

RE: Leliana's appearance. That isn't final on that segment, for reasons which include spoilery things.


  • Deflagratio, Heimdall, SofaJockey et 18 autres aiment ceci

#3
John Epler

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Then I'd honestly choose 'no quests', or at the very least 'no quests like that one'. If something forces me to be out of character and breaks my immersion I'd rather it wasn't there at all, even if the world is slightly more empty. 

 

An emptier world is better than a world where I can't have fun. 

 

On an unrelated note: There was a lot of clipping on character models during the demo. I know this will always happen from time-to-time but it was a bit excessive.

 

We try to minimize clipping, but your options on that front are - one race/gender model with minimal customization, or lots of customization (including four distinct races) with some clipping.

 

For the majority of our audience, the latter is a preferable option. Not saying it's the categorically best option, but it's the option we've gone with. Eliminating clipping is also a bugfixing process, not a content complete process, and so anything you see before the game is in a box has a reasonable probability of being fixed.

 

As for the quest - that's on the 'simpler' end of light quests, but they exist because people enjoy some context to their light quests. Some of them have more context, some of them have about that much.


  • Mira, Mihura, Deflagratio et 17 autres aiment ceci

#4
John Epler

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Calling it - she loses an eye. 

I once suggested that Iron Bull's eyepatch should randomly change sides throughout the game.

 

I still stand by that suggestion.


  • Mira, Deflagratio, Andraste_Reborn et 27 autres aiment ceci

#5
Allan Schumacher

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An emptier world is better than a world where I can't have fun. 

 

I consider an empty world an unfun world, so different strokes for different folks.

 

One advantage is that it better informs you as to whether or not you feel the game will be worth your time.

 

 

Is there any story reason to kill them ? Or is it just honor, glory and powerful materials to make items from ? Just wondering about it. The main big bad in this game is demons so dragons are not our enemy. They are certainly not the purpose the Inquisition is re-founded.

 

Then do not kill the dragons.


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#6
Allan Schumacher

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Closing this thread because allegations of fanboys, haters, Witcher talk, and other nonsense doesn't convince me this is a particularly "constructive" thread as I read through it.


  • raz3rkun, WoolyJoe, Bonsai Dryad et 7 autres aiment ceci