290 réponses à ce sujet

[ArtemisMoons]

1. They were avoiding the side quests. They didn't pick up any of the herbs on the ground or loot very many of the bodies. I think it's a little strange to judge something without actually seeing how it worked.

 

2. Why would we want to scare the bear off? EXP and skin are going to be fairly big draws to killing the wildlife. I mean, what purpose would it serve to shoo the bear?

 

3. I am pretty sure the dragon sees people as tasty treats that occasionally have sharp pointy things that jab at it.

 

4. There are many forms of torture. That said, I don't think anyone needs to see Lelianna broken and bloodied to believe that she was tortured and honestly, I wouldn't want to see it. 

[spacediscosaurus]

I still maintain we should have fought the torturer (like we did in Arl Howe's dungeons), be given the ability / option to assume control of Sera or Iron Bull when they went to hold the enemies off, alternatively suggest another option like barricading the door, allowed to take control of Leliana when she fights. 

 

It is funny why we never thought of barricading the door. We have spellcasters, a huge qunari and 2 archers. Create some magical barrier, position two archers to attack, have the Bull at the front. 

 

Using gameplay gives the players more agency as opposed to cutscenes. It gives more options. Its awesome. 

 

The cutscenes featuring Leliana had no reason to exist other than to make her look "badass".  It served no other purpose. Even the one where she executed Felix. 

I disagree that the cutscenes serve no purpose and that player should be given control of those situations. I think the writers want it to play out a certain way, as they are ultimately creating a story. Yes, it's a story that can be manipulated to some extent by the players, and can have different paths, but all of those branching paths are carefully scripted. I would think that players would be upset at being able to control those characters and forced to lose anyway. If the writers don't intend for there to be the option of winning those fights, then why lead the players on?

 

You speak of giving the players more agency, but those are places in the story that the writers don't want the player to have agency. You shouldn't be able to solve every problem just because you're awesome, especially since it's your own poor actions that lead to these scenes anyway (it's been stated that it takes certain decisions to get this outcome). There's only so many different paths a game can take. It's unrealistic to expect to be able to do whatever you want.

[Deflagratio]

Because it is better to use gameplay. It is better to let us take the torturer down. It is better to have us temporarily play as Leliana fighting. It is a game after all, not an animated movie. 

 

Right, because if torture is meant to be interpreted as anything, it's that the victim is totally in control of the situation. Your idea isn't a dissonance at all.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Because it is better to use gameplay. It is better to let us take the torturer down. It is better to have us temporarily play as Leliana fighting. It is a game after all, not an animated movie. 

That's incredibly pointless, break a cut scene to fight 1 torturer? It'd be tedious for the gamer himself to keep interrupting cut scenes during a really interesting plot to kill a mob or two. Not to mention how the hell could Leliana fight being tied up like that with no back up, she was just waiting for the right moment to strike and she took it.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that it just occurred to me that you're really more interested in having full control. Well you can't control everything in the game, the writers want this part of the plot told that way and so it shall, you'll have more than enough choices to make regardless.

[Enigmatick]

And that's bad because?

Because it's pure ******?

[wolfhowwl]

4. There are many forms of torture. That said, I don't think anyone needs to see Lelianna broken and bloodied to believe that she was tortured and honestly, I wouldn't want to see it. 

 

The problem is that she doesn't really look hurt at all.

 

Given her meltdown later with Alexius it would be helpful to demonstrate that she been in some kind of trauma.

[St. Victorious]

Text walls make me sad. Summarize your thoughts instead of letting them grow into tangents.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Because it's pure ******?

Right then let's take every single flashy moment from every single character you've ever liked and delete them. Because heaven forbid flashy cut-scenes are just so horrible and pointless, it's not like they give the character and the scene more life or even make them more likable in some situations or they may even just be really awesome or anything. Nah we're just too cool for that.

[Deflagratio]

Text walls make me sad. Summarize your thoughts instead of letting them grow into tangents.

 

 

Kotaku level buzzwords and unrealistic expectations. That was my initial impression off a paragraph, and from the selection of quotes and rebuttals from others in the thread, my impression was spot-on.

[slimgrin]

The problem is that she doesn't really look hurt at all.

 

Given her meltdown later with Alexius it would be helpful to demonstrate that she been in some kind of trauma.

 

This is my only qualm with the scene, and it could be easily remedied to reinforce her extreme behavior later on. Either dial down her reaction or show that she's been through something bad.

[Enigmatick]

Right then let's take every single flashy moment from every single character you've ever liked and delete them. Because heaven forbid flashy cut-scenes are just so horrible and pointless, it's not like they give the character and the scene more life or even make them more likable in some situations or they may even just be really awesome or anything. Nah we're just too cool for that.

They don't, most of the flashy cutscenes are used in introductions and they're tacky.

 

"SEE HOW KEWL THIS GUY IS"  cutscenes were something I hated in Mass effect.

 

But this all depends on how they're framed. I wouldn't have a problem with Leliana's scenes if I didn't feel so disconnected from everything going with the source of her anger.

[Deflagratio]

They don't, most of the flashy cutscenes are used in introductions and they're tacky.

 

"SEE HOW KEWL THIS GUY IS"  cutscenes were something I hated in Mass effect.

 

 

Though I largely agree with your sentiment, I will argue that in the Leliana cutscene's case, she always possessed the ability to kill her tormenter whenever, but she didn't have the ability to free herself from binding. The Inquisitor walking in was the opportunity she needed, to me this is a context-appropriate level of badass embellishment. Your opinion may differ.

[mikeymoonshine]

Well ok, here is my constructive criticism of your constructive criticism. 

 

1: It's a fetch quest, it's not going to be spectacular. It's still better than the DA2 fetch Quests and the ME3 one's you mentioned, It had relevance to the plot and what was going on in the area at the time. Yeah it could have had more context but then it is just a fetch quest. 

I will agree that the "k thx bye" response seemed a bit inappropriate but I doubt that is going to bother me that much when I play the game. 

 

2: Obviously that was on easy with an incredible powerful team so the bear fights will be more difficult than that. Your main criticism is that you can't scare the thing away? I don't really feel the need for this and it sounds like a waste of effort to programme something like that. Would you even get xp for doing that? Sometimes too much realism is a bad thing. 

They didn't spend all their time looting corpses and harvesting stuff because that would be boring and they wanted to show us other aspects of the game. That doesn't mean you can't do those things. 

 

3: "Most wild beasts do not attack unless they are provoked."  But some do especially predators, dragons are predators that don't really have all that much to fear from humans. Also, they do attack people. 

 

4: A game gets it's Mature rating because some of it's content is Mature, that doesn't mean the whole game has to be or that it fails at it's mature status if it isn't. The devs don't really want to do proper torture (from what I can tell) and that's fine by me. Games don't have to be realistic. Some realism is nice in some aspects but a little fantasy is perfectly fine in a fantasy game. 

 

She's our adviser so her job is to have her own opinion, isn't it? I don't get the problem with this. The Venatori seem to be run by mages and seem to be linked to Tervinter and Dorian is a mage from Tervinter, we also do not know the full context. Why are you one minute talking about realism and the next complaining that a character who was just tortured has a bit of an attitude and is behaving in an unprofessional way? 

 

Bioware characters have their own behaviors and make their own choices like characters should. Sometimes they will do things you don't like we also don't know what would have happened had we picked other responses or just not sent Leliana there at all. 

 

Hitting someone with a heavy wooden object will still have an effect even if they are in armour but again, we don't need 100% realism. I think you are being a bit over critical.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

They don't, most of the flashy cutscenes are used in introductions and they're tacky.

 

"SEE HOW KEWL THIS GUY IS"  cutscenes were something I hated in Mass effect.

To you, yes.

To me I loved them.

I'd say it's subjective, but such is the case in many things regarding a game, not just that.

They exist because as I said they give more life to the character, makes people more interested. It's widely accepted and I'm pretty sure even you like a flashy cut scene or two.

[Enigmatick]

Though I largely agree with your sentiment, I will argue that in the Leliana cutscene's case, she always possessed the ability to kill her tormenter whenever, but she didn't have the ability to free herself from binding. The Inquisitor walking in was the opportunity she needed, to me this is a context-appropriate level of badass embellishment. Your opinion may differ.

I understand, I edited my post because I didn't express myself correctly.

 

Really I just don't like stuff like Isabella's cutscene because it screams to me that she's a companion, stuff like that should be missable I don't like  game trying it's hardest to to draw my attention to optional content in inorganic ways.

[Zatche]

While it seemed silly that Leliana didn't look battered, that's probably a legit resource constraint. New or modified model might not be worth it for one small scene. Hope it changes. Not a big deal if it doesn't.

 

And Leliana being there was pointless? I disagree. Her being upset made it look to me like this was an important character moment for her. Maybe it won't have a huge impact of the overall story, but this overall mission seems to have a big effect on the relationship between Leliana and the Inquisitor.

 

And I don't think we should complain about choices being meaningless before we see the other outcomes. (It would be nice if we could see a small unspoilery demo of different outcomes in a conversation...but not misleading like that ME3 one)

[Giantdeathrobot]

Yeah, the bit about Leliana still looking like a cosplaying supermodel, complete with glossy lips, after being tortured was really out of place. As was the boss's endless repetitions.

[Deflagratio]

I understand, I edited my post because I didn't express myself correctly.

 

Really I just don't like stuff like Isabella's cutscene because it screams to me that she's a companion, stuff like that should be missable I don't like  game trying it's hardest to to draw my attention to optional content in inorganic ways.

 

Hopefully that's addressed somewhere in the story, I give Bioware the benefit of the doubt because it's been stated a few times that Leliana has "Seen some ****" since we met her last that probably jaded her quite a bit.

 

Yeah, the bit about Leliana still looking like a cosplaying supermodel, complete with glossy lips, after being tortured was really out of place. As was the boss's endless repetitions.

 

That's not fair, the repetition wasn't endless since Alexius died after three "This world's already lost" rants. Bonus round!!!: He was talking for a good two or three seconds while he was actually dead, strange nobody brought that up.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

I understand, I edited my post because I didn't express myself correctly.

 

Really I just don't like stuff like Isabella's cutscene because it screams to me that she's a companion, stuff like that should be missable I don't like  game trying it's hardest to to draw my attention to optional content in inorganic ways.

Er may I just point out here, that even after that cutscene you talking to her is completely optional. You walk into a bar and you find a capable, attractive women dealing with 3 weak idiots who thought they could take her on. Also most of the flashy scenes especially in bioware are quite believable and not completely unrealistic.

[Enigmatick]

Er may I just point out here, that even after that cutscene you talking to her is completely optional. You walk into a bar and you find a capable, attractive women dealing with 3 weak idiots who thought they could take her on. Also most of the flashy scenes especially in bioware are quite believable and not completely unrealistic.

Jack.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Jack.

Sorry,  I don't quite understand.

You knew you were recruiting Subject Zero (Jack) when you were on the mission, in fact all of the followers in mass effect 2 were mandatory because you needed them.

If you're referring to her cut scene, well I still don't understand because it wasn't even flashy.

[Yggdrasil]

More realistic is not always better, and the real world isn't an unerring standard for media meant to entertain.  I have no desire to see explicit scenes of torture and disliked such a scene in the first Mass Effect book.  Seth MacFarlane being able to use every four letter word didn't make "A Million Ways to Die in the Desert" funnier and more clever than the first three seasons of "Family Guy."  Subtlety and imagination are vital to artistic expression.  Any hack can go for explicitness and shock value.

[MrMrPendragon]

I agree on the torture bit. She doesn't look damaged at all.

[BabyFratelli]

I don't know if I really want to see a bloodied, beaten Leliana. I think it's implied by her "No one should have this power" comment that she was tortured using magic, anyhow, but there's also the dialogue right after the scene where Dorian tries to talk to her about it.

 

Dorian: What happened while we were away?

Leliana: Stop talking.

Dorian: I'm just asking for information.

Leliana: No, you're talking to fill silence. Nothing happened that you want to hear.

 

That right there is shiver inducing enough for me.

DA does have a mature rating, but it isn't Game of Thrones. I think a suspension of disbelief is important when playing any video game. Maybe if she looked a bit more ruffled or wasn't wearing lip gloss (though perhaps being able to apply gloss when bound is another one of her many valuable skills). Maybe if she had a cut on her lip? I don't know.

 

Other than that, I personally have none of the same issues that you have and I hope you won't take offense if I say I find them just a little nit-picky. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I don't know if I really want to see a bloodied, beaten Leliana. I think it's implied by her "No one should have this power" comment that she was tortured using magic, anyhow, but there's also the dialogue right after the scene where Dorian tries to talk to her about it.

 

Dorian: What happened while we were away?

Leliana: Stop talking.

Dorian: I'm just asking for information.

Leliana: No, you're talking to fill silence. Nothing happened that you want to hear.

 

That right there is shiver inducing enough for me.

DA does have a mature rating, but it isn't Game of Thrones. I think a suspension of disbelief is important when playing any video game. Maybe if she looked a bit more ruffled or wasn't wearing lip gloss (though perhaps being able to apply gloss when bound is another one of her many valuable skills). Maybe if she had a cut on her lip? I don't know.

 

Other than that, I personally have none of the same issues that you have and I hope you won't take offense if I say I find them just a little nit-picky. 

 

Offended ? Nah. This is an online discussion. Getting offended over this is pointless. You would have to resort to extremes to get me offended. I'm like Sten in that sense. For the most part stoic and indifferent. 

 

Just interested in people's opinions really. 

 

My personal viewpoint of the mature rating is that it means treating the gamer as an adult and as such should not censor anything and just go all out. So when I see torture scene like that in a game like this, to me, the game is not treating me as an adult and is instead treating me like a child who should not see blood, gore, trauma. 

 

Then again, maybe Game of Thrones did spoil me. I love the books and the series. 

 

As for the dragons and wild animals, I stated that those are suggestions as opposed to actual critiques, my critique being focused on Leliana and fetch quest.

 

I have lived nearby a forest so being around wild animals is not something new to me. Animals tend to act a certain way and you can typically drive them off. 

 

I suggested driving them away as an option because perhaps you might roleplay as a Dalish or a pacifist or someone who does not like to waste things. So perhaps driving animals away or calming them down, especially as a Dalish, being closer to nature and all that, it seems to be a better path to take. You don't have to just get XP from killing something blindly. 

 

I am very big on roleplaying and realism in an RPG game. When I play one, I tend to make a decision based on what I personally would do if I was there faced in that situation. 

 

So unless I need hide for crafting or meat for cooking, in RPG games I would just sneak past or calm the wild animals and move on. I am weird like that. 

 

I was also wondering why dragons are enemies in Thedas. In other games, dragon are enemies because they want to bring an end to the world (Skyrim) or something like that. Just wondering if there are more reasons to attack dragons in this game other than "good loot". If not, my Inquisitor might not just bother them if they are in the wilds roosting and chilling.