290 réponses à ce sujet

[SirGladiator]

I agree with the not showing torture thing.  I loved the demos, I've watched them over and over they're so beautiful and awesome, they really make the game seem like it's going to be the Game of the Year.  They do bring two things in mind that could've used improving though.  First, was how they showed us entering the area, and we're fighting two groups of opponents.  One was a group of mages, the next was a group of Templars.  Yikes.  I'd have liked to thought that this time, unlike in DA2, we could've avoided fighting the members of the group we were siding with.  Since if we're siding with them, they shouldn't be attacking us.  Maybe it was super early, before we could pick a side, but if not that's gonna be annoying, picking a side and then fighting random members from that side for no reason at all.  The other was more a thought that came to me from hearing them say they were using the Female Qunari because it was the fan favorite, and that reminded me that a TON of fans were really wanting to see a female qunari back in DA2 days, when they didn't have any at all in the game.  It occurred to me, with the team having a 6-3 male to female ratio, and given the fact that we'd already seen a TON of male qunari, even had one on the team in DAO, it would've made perfect sense if Iron Bull had been a female instead of a male.  It would've been cooler, having a character type we'd never seen before on the team, it would've avoided the 6 to 3 unfairness by making it 5 to 4, it literally would've been all positives and no negatives, while making Iron Bull yet another male qunari has no advantages whatsoever.  So it occurred to me that was a major missed opportunity on their part.  But other than those two quibbles, the demos were awesome and I loved the scenery, the combat, all of it, it just seemed so awesome.  It was like somebody took Skyrim, and gave it just a huge series of upgrades, both to the graphics and the gameplay, you name it.  Can't wait for October 7th!

[Dabrikishaw]

The torture was handled in the exact manner I expected Bioware to do so.

[AtreiyaN7]

I'm just fascinated by issue #3 (dragons) being brought up as a criticism of the demo.

 

Although dragons aren't real, let's pretend that they are. A dragon would be the de facto apex predator in any fictional realm in which it appears. With their immense size and their muscle mass, I expect that dragons would have to consume quite a lot of calories on a daily basis and would look at any creature smaller than they are as dinner, even if they have a slower metabolism a la other reptiles.

 

Sure, maybe they like to be solitary in theory, but I think they would probably make hunting forays into populated areas looking for food if necessary and would probably be perfectly happy to nom on cows and/or humans (either reason probably being enough to make people angry with them). Even assuming that a dragon have a slower metabolism like a real-world reptile might, I'm guessing that they would still have to chow down fairly regularly.

 

Their caloric requirements are just going to lead to situations involving human vs. dragon conflicts. And as someone else pointed out, they do hoard treasure and their body parts make for good crafting materials. Even if they don't nom on cows or people, greed is probably enough motivation for some people to hunt them down.

[Nefla]

Agree about the fetch quests.

[Maria Caliban]

I'm just fascinated by issue #3 (dragons) being brought up as a criticism of the demo.
 
Although dragons aren't real, let's pretend that they are. A dragon would be the de facto apex predator in any fictional realm in which it appears. With their immense size and their muscle mass, I expect that dragons would have to consume quite a lot of calories on a daily basis and would look at any creature smaller than they are as dinner, even if they have a slower metabolism a la other reptiles.
 
Sure, maybe they like to be solitary in theory, but I think they would probably make hunting forays into populated areas looking for food if necessary and would probably be perfectly happy to nom on cows and/or humans (either reason probably being enough to make people angry with them). Even assuming that a dragon have a slower metabolism like a real-world reptile might, I'm guessing that they would still have to chow down fairly regularly.
 
Their caloric requirements are just going to lead to situations involving human vs.dragon conflicts. And as someone else pointed out, they do hoard treasure and their body parts make for good crafting materials. Even if they don't nom on cows or people, greed is probably enough motivation for some people to hunt them down.

The reason the current period is called the 'Dragon Age' is that a High Dragon appeared and went on a Rampage that destroyed about a dozen human settlements. The Rampage seems to be the way a nesting female dragons protect their territory.

So yes, even if a High Dragon could feed itself without eating people or livestock, it would still end up slaughtering a massive amount of people because human cities and activity are seen as threatening its nest.

[AtreiyaN7]

The reason the current period is called the 'Dragon Age' is that a High Dragon appeared and went on a Rampage that destroyed about a dozen human settlements. The Rampage seems to be the way a nesting female dragons protect their territory.

So yes, even if a High Dragon could feed itself without eating people or livestock, it would still end up slaughtering a massive amount of people because human cities and activity are seen as threatening its nest.

 

I think that's an excellent point about territorial behavior.

[Tamyn]

Couldn't they just put the all-over blood splatter effect (that's been in both DA games) on Leliana? Maybe that hasn't been finalized yet.

[ManOfSteel]

I don't understand why people are getting on your case about being "too critical". I'm sure BioWare welcomes constructive criticism far more than mindless praise and attacking those that offer any different. Yes, the game is still in development. But that doesn't mean we can't be concerned about how it's going. Sure you could argue that the OP presented some minor issues, but maybe those issues are important to him/her? I know that the conversation with the elf regarding the templars felt incredibly unnatural to me.

[Amaror]

As for the torture scene, your's (and others) is the one complaint I've seen made that holds some merit. That being said, she was being held captive by mages. Methinks they could infiltrate her mind and torture scar it far more greatly than any scary iron implement beaten upon her person could.

 

Yes, but we didn't see that. We saw an idiot holding a knife to the prisoner. 

They could have just shown us that and it would have been more effective than a flimsy knife. 

Just make the Venatori shoot some lightning into Leliana as we walk in.

They allready have the animations and effects for lighting shooting it wouldn't have been so difficult.

[SofaJockey]

On torture:

 

Firstly, it's alpha.

 

Dragon Age has not shied away from a little gore, conceptually at least:

 

 

Though I don't expect BioWare to engage in torture scenes in the way the Witcher does, for example.

 

 

I think as it is currently presented it is a little silly.

[Maria Caliban]

I don't understand why people are getting on your case about being "too critical".

Because they're fans of the game. This is what fans do.

I'm sure BioWare welcomes constructive criticism far more than mindless praise and attacking those that offer any different.

BioWare welcomes mindless praise. Why would BioWare not welcome that?

They've spoken before that they have people whose job it is to find out what fan and review reaction is to a game *after* it's come out. Previous to a game coming out, they don't give it much credulous because 1) we usually don't see something until it past the time they could realistically change it, and 2) fans often leap to conclusions.

Criticism, even of the constructive kind, is unlikely to change anything about the game at this point. It's more likely to be applied to the next game, which means the best time to give criticism is after the release.

But that doesn't mean we can't be concerned about how it's going.

Sure.

[bEVEsthda]

Ok, I've read the post, and I've read the comments.

 

Here's my take on the situation. I agree with the arguments of your criticism. But that doesn't mean that I, now, in this time and space (DA:I) agree with the criticism as such. I don't. I'll stretch to that Leliana's torture scene is more than just a bit ridiculous, and that I also don't care much for killing wildlife in RPGs.

 

But the generalized way I phrased that, hints at my objection. There were times when I could easily see ways how RPGs could move forward. To me, BG series was just a first, basic adaption of the P&P game form. To me, the P&P form was just a starting point, everything simplified, featuring symbolic representations that made up a crude simulation framework, which could be used by a DM and role-players to create a story.

The simplicity of that framework was necessary for P&P, in order to make it manageable with dice and P&P. On a computer, anything is possible. But the only times I've seen the RPG genre taking any step I'd call "forward", was Morrowind and VtM:Bloodlines. Instead of cRPG taking and building upon the gaming idea  which P&P games were founded on, cRPGs only took the improvised mechanics, and made them, instead, the foundation for computer RPGs.

Otherwise, it's mostly been a case of taking huge leaps backwards, joining games labeled 'RPG' with all the rest of them. Adapting and reshaping them more into the typical 'Space Invaders' video game paradigm.

 

And that's basically where we are today. I suppose DA:O was a sort of half-reboot, from which things could have started all over. But that didn't happen. Instead we got that incredible recoil, that DA2 represents.

 

DA:I is an attempt by Bioware to make a comeback from the DA2 disaster. And they make that attempt, with a development team that doesn't have the slightest clue about what I hint at, in this post (and probably never will). The situation is far more complex today, than in those days I could see ways forward, for the RPG genre. Bioware has a baggage, both in the form of a part of an acquired audience that now expect the usual <kill, kill, kill, - Oh a Boss - cutscene before next level>, EA, and an acquired development team that is also stuck in the game they want to make (and that last one is just how it should be, IMO).

 

I think the details you criticize, are just things we have to gloss over and take in the stride, saying "It's just a video game". Because that's how it is. And it's a lot of work to make a video game. With all the ambitions Bioware have regarding the world build and movie-making, it's unreasonable to expect perfection in every detail.

 

If Bioware's DA team get settled in a successful form and process for their movie-games, they will likely in the future have time and occasion to think more about details, and evolve. But DA:I will really be sort of the first attempt. Because they have abandoned DA:O and DA2 was a complete screw-up.

[Herr Uhl]

The one I agree on is that it would have been neat to have some kind of indication of abuse towards Leliana, at least a bruise or something. But it is possible that not a lot of resources went into that as it seems to be a result of you messing up.

I don't get why so many people get so upset over the sidequest though.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

The one I agree on is that it would have been neat to have some kind of indication of abuse towards Leliana, at least a bruise or something. But it is possible that not a lot of resources went into that as it seems to be a result of you messing up.

I don't get why so many people get so upset over the sidequest though.

 

I am not upset about the quest but rather the way the quest was presented. There was no human interaction. It was like the woman just went off like this :- "You. you look big and important. Templars did this. I want my ring back" to which the Inquisitor just says "Goodbye". 

 

I mean there was no hi / hello / greetings Inquisitor or anything like that. There was no "I am sorry for your loss." or anything like that. 

 

A good RPG game makes you forget that you are playing a game. A good RPG game gets you to roleplay and emotionally invest in the game. That side quest was too mechanical, to direct. 

 

By contrast, Skyrim, even though it was an older game, had options. You could greet the people properly. They give you details so as to where the object is. For example the Golden Claw is in the nearby barrow.

 

That sidequest on the other hand, gave us no details. We were just told that a bereaved woman lost a ring and that's it. No any further details on how the ring looks like or does she have any guesses where it might be, nothing. The entire Hinterlands is bigger than all of DA:O and you expect the Inquisitor to find one ring without knowing much. 

 

The negative reaction towards the sidequest is because it is very poorly done. 

[Burricho]

Skyrim's sidequests were some of the worst, and most boring ever. I liked the game but god... those 'kill x Mudcrabs' or 'collect x cheese' got very boring very soon. Also it is ONE sidequest in a game in ALPHA which has loads of them. Anddd the reason that they did not have any further interaction was not because it was nescessarily impossible, it was because they wanted to demonstrate a new system in which you can walk away from any conversation.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I don't understand why people are getting on your case about being "too critical". I'm sure BioWare welcomes constructive criticism far more than mindless praise and attacking those that offer any different. Yes, the game is still in development. But that doesn't mean we can't be concerned about how it's going. Sure you could argue that the OP presented some minor issues, but maybe those issues are important to him/her? I know that the conversation with the elf regarding the templars felt incredibly unnatural to me.

 

Die-hard fans mate. 

 

People get rather protective with what they love after all. 

 

I don't. I am an INTJ. When I love something, I analyze and deconstruct them. 

 

I presented the minor issues because I am big on roleplaying as opposed to power-gaming. In fact I would put myself as a hardcore roleplayer and not a power-gamer at all. 

 

Differences between roleplaying and power-gaming :- http://www.pocketpla...hamp/chap10.htm

 

When it comes to roleplaying, the small details matter a lot. The smallest details contribute to the immersion which then contributed to the roleplaying experience. 

 

Cheers. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Skyrim's sidequests were some of the worst, and most boring ever. I liked the game but god... those 'kill x Mudcrabs' or 'collect x cheese' got very boring very soon. Also it is ONE sidequest in a game in ALPHA which has loads of them. Anddd the reason that they did not have any further interaction was not because it was nescessarily impossible, it was because they wanted to demonstrate a new system in which you can walk away from any conversation.

 

Agreed but what I wanted to point out was the lack of human interaction between the quest giver and the playable character.

 

Even Skyrim which had tons of dull side quests at least had people who greeted you, explained where and where you should get this item for them, etc.

 

That was my point really. Even a game like Skyrim can have these human interactions for dull side quests but DA:I cannot ? 

[Blackout62]

What was Bioware expecting from showing a character die in the demo without greater context of plot or even gameplay systems at play other than out of wild speculation and rampant disapproval?

[Burricho]

Agreed but what I wanted to point out was the lack of human interaction between the quest giver and the playable character.

 

Even Skyrim which had tons of dull side quests at least had people who greeted you, explained where and where you should get this item for them, etc.

 

That was my point really. Even a game like Skyrim can have these human interactions for dull side quests but one sidequest in an alpha build of  DA:I cannot ? 

[Burricho]

What was Bioware expecting from showing a character die in the demo without greater context of plot or even gameplay systems at play other than out of wild speculation and rampant disapproval?

Nobody even knows if anybody died. Anyway, how is this remotely got anything to do with what the OP is saying?

[Dan Fango]

I have to agree that showing Leliana without a hair out of place completely undermined that particular scene for me too.

[MrDuck]

Eeeh, I didn't have the impression that Leliana had been there long. That view of the torture tools also doesn't imply to me that they had already been used.

 

When the Venatori said that she will break, it sounded more like what he's about to do will make her break. That's how I interpreted it anyway.

[Dan Fango]

Eeeh, I didn't have the impression that Leliana had been there long. That view of the torture tools also doesn't imply to me that they had already been used.
 
When the Venatori said that she will break, it sounded more like what he's about to do will make her break. That's how I interpreted it anyway.

Again, that's kind of undermined by her 'Nothing happened that you would want to hear' line.

[Burricho]

Poor Lass she was force feed porridge..........WITH SUGAR, THE TORTURE!!

*shudder* But seriously, everyone knows you should only have porridge with honey.