290 réponses à ce sujet

[Amaror]

Am i being the only one annoyed at all the people screaming at the OP because "It's an alpha, it's an unfinished!".

The Game releases in 3 Months. 3. In terms of game development that is nothing. They aren't going to change anything mindblowing or substantial and the most they will do are bugfixes, testing and marketing.

So OP's complains are entirely justified. Additionaly this is a marketing demo we are talking about, they won't just release footage of unfinished parts of the game, so you can be pretty damn sure that the finished product will be very similar.

Remember the last time we blindly shoved "It's unfinished" and "Bioware will get it right" in front of any complaints we got DA 2 out of that.

 

 

As many people pointed our: your critisizm is not constructive

No one really cares what you want

 

 

Yeah in what way isn't his criticism contructive? Constructive criticism isn't mindless praise. Because this is what constructive means.

 

constructive criticism - criticism or advice that is useful and intended to help or improve something, often withan offer of possible solutions

 

http://dictionary.re...ctive criticism

 

Let's see ... his criticism was intended to help Bioware improve DAI. And he offered possible solutions for his side quest criticism and his leliana criticism.

So his criticism was indeed constructive.

[Dan Fango]

You're asking for fixes for something that hasn't been finished yet. This is akin to judging a painting before it's finished. I'm not asking you to not have an opinion on the demo but you aren't even considering the fact that the build is an outdated pre-alpha build.

For all we know the final version will include a lot of polish that includes blood and gore that havent been implemented yet.
 
I mean do you think that I liked everything that was shown so far? Hell no. I just give them the benefit of the doubt because I know that they know what they are doing.
 
Furthermore, the developers may pay attention to their fans but they know way more than you ever will regarding game development. A lot of things that may seem "obvious" were likely cut due to constraints (or not even shown in the demo).

As I said, the game isn't perfect and it will have some problems but the constant barrage of "disappointment" threads regarding unfinished content serves nothing but to irritate the developers.
 
TL;DR: If someone walks into my kitchen and tells me my food isn't seasoned properly when I haven't even finished the meal yet, I'd take the pot and pour it all over them.

All you're saying there is that we should all refrain from discussing the game until it's released. Begs the question: why don't you take your own advice and leave this thread be?

[Vincent-Vega]

 

As many people pointed our: your critisizm is not constructive

No one really cares what you want

 

Wow, that's very mature.

 

 

If the scene were edited like a Michael Bay movie, you'd see two dozen quick cuts, wouldn't be able to figure out how many torturers there were, and find yourself wondering how Leliana's shoes could cause a random explosion.

And there would be giant robots.

 

I was making a point.
 

 

Ishten, on 15 Jul 2014 - 03:36 AM, said:

 

The cutscenes featuring Leliana had no reason to exist other than to make her look "badass".  It served no other purpose. Even the one where she executed Felix. 

 

 

 

 

And that's bad because?

 

IMO, the question should be: How ist it not bad?

 

 

[nici2412]

I agree with everything you said OP. Especially the torture scene disturbed me. I think this are the small details, which discern a good from a great game. I don't know   why bioware did the scene like this. Either they didn't want too spent any ressources on making Leliana look different. Or they are so afraid of showing skin, that making her look like usual is the better option.Even if it's highly unrealistic.But in this case, they could have shown at least some traces of torture on her face. This somehow reminds me of the bathing scene in underwear in mass effect or the clothed romance scenes in all bioware games.

This is how a tortured person should like and not in full armor without any sign of harm.

:

[Chari]

Am i being the only one annoyed at all the people screaming at the OP because "It's an alpha, it's an unfinished!".

The Game releases in 3 Months. 3. In terms of game development that is nothing. They aren't going to change anything mindblowing or substantial and the most they will do are bugfixes, testing and marketing.

So OP's complains are entirely justified. Additionaly this is a marketing demo we are talking about, they won't just release footage of unfinished parts of the game, so you can be pretty damn sure that the finished product will be very similar.

Remember the last time we blindly shoved "It's unfinished" and "Bioware will get it right" in front of any complaints we got DA 2 out of that.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah in what way isn't his criticism contructive? Constructive criticism isn't mindless praise. Because this is what constructive means.

 

constructive criticism - criticism or advice that is useful and intended to help or improve something, often withan offer of possible solutions

 

http://dictionary.re...ctive criticism

 

Let's see ... his criticism was intended to help Bioware improve DAI. And he offered possible solutions for his side quest criticism and his leliana criticism.

So his criticism was indeed constructive.

You're trying to give an advice to the devs who are more than half-way through the game creation. They have less than 3 months to finish the game

Such small details + overuse of opinion (calling Lelianna foolish and the paragraph about dragons while we do have canon info about them) is not constructive. It's nitpicky and subjective

[Schreckstoff]

Am i being the only one annoyed at all the people screaming at the OP because "It's an alpha, it's an unfinished!".

The Game releases in 3 Months. 3. In terms of game development that is nothing. They aren't going to change anything mindblowing or substantial and the most they will do are bugfixes, testing and marketing.

So OP's complains are entirely justified. Additionaly this is a marketing demo we are talking about, they won't just release footage of unfinished parts of the game, so you can be pretty damn sure that the finished product will be very similar.

Remember the last time we blindly shoved "It's unfinished" and "Bioware will get it right" in front of any complaints we got DA 2 out of that.

 

They are jumping him for jumping to conclusions

 

1)We don't know how exactly it will play out in the finished game in none press mode

 

2) Would be way too much effort into something that'd most likely annoy many people

 

3) Animals nesting are highly aggressive to intruders.

 

4) We know not how Leliana was tortured nor how long, why should mages resort to physical torture when they can do so much more

[Schreckstoff]

I agree with everything you said OP. Especially the torture scene disturbed me. I think this are the small details, which discern a good from a great game. I don't know   why bioware did the scene like this. Either they didn't want too spent any ressources on making Leliana look different. Or they are so afraid of showing skin, that making her look like usual is the better option.Even if it's highly unrealistic.But in this case, they could have shown at least some traces of torture on her face. This somehow reminds me of the bathing scene in underwear in mass effect or the clothed romance scenes in all bioware games.

This is how a tortured person should like and not in full armor without any sign of harm.

:

Geralt was tortured by common men, Leliana by mages.

[Chari]

Wow, that's very mature.

 

@Maria Caliban: For some reason I can't quote your post, but I was making a point. 

 

If he stops harrassing me in PM and stop insulting religious people I might stop

Untill he acts mature, though, I don't see a reason to act "mature"

'Sides, his critisizm is indeed facepalm-worthy, since lots of the information about dragons is shown in the lore already. His biased opinion on the mages/chantry is showing in 4th part. And he judges the game by a outdated demo. Really?

[Wulfram]

I think sticking some blood spatter on Leliana would be a sensible thing to do.  Better would be some cuts and bruising, if they can make the texture.

 

I don't need too much, I'm prepared to meet the medium half way, but when she looks basically fine and immediately starts kicking ass it's hard to take this as a big event that affects her character.

 

Though I wouldn't want her stripped, we've already had people fetishizing tied up Leliana even when she's clothed.

[Dan Fango]

If he stops harrassing me in PM and stop insulting religious people I might stop
Untill he acts mature, though, I don't see a reason to act "mature"
'Sides, his critisizm is indeed facepalm-worthy, since lots of the information about dragons is shown in the lore already. His biased opinion on the mages/chantry is showing in 4th part. And he judges the game by a outdated demo. Really?

Please take that baggage elsewhere (preferably to PM).

[Amaror]

They are jumping him for jumping to conclusions

 

1)We don't know how exactly it will play out in the finished game in none press mode

 

2) Would be way too much effort into something that'd most likely annoy many people

 

3) Animals nesting are highly aggressive to intruders.

 

4) We know not how Leliana was tortured nor how long, why should mages resort to physical torture when they can do so much more

 

You're trying to give an advice to the devs who are more than half-way through the game creation. They have less than 3 months to finish the game

Such small details + overuse of opinion (calling Lelianna foolish and the paragraph about dragons while we do have canon info about them) is not constructive. It's nitpicky and subjective

 

I agree that the Dragon and bear complaints were a bit silly, but the other criticism was highly constructive. Yes, the release is only in 3 months, but that doesn't mean we should refrain from any criticism. If the devs don't have the time to react on it before release, they can just start developing a patch. 

And again, stop just giving bioware the benefit of the doubt, the last time we gave bioware the benefit of the doubt we ended up with Dragon Age 2.

 

Yes, mages can resort to magical torture. However there is a very important rule for movie making, and since they try so hard for DAI to be like a movie the rule is pretty topical.

It's show, don't tell. Leliana TELLS us that she was tortured. However we don't SEE that. We are just supposed to believe it. You wouldn't even need to show the torture itself.

Let me go through the scene the way i would have made it.

When we were outside the door we hear Leliana and the Torturer talking, just like in the demo.

Shortly before we open the door we hear Leliana scream in Agony.

When we walk in the door we see the Torturer stand before Leliena with lightning magic sparkling around his hands, while Leliana hangs exhausted in her chains with lightning sizzling around her body. We walk in, the Torturer turns toward us. Leliana gets a determined look on her face, musters her strength and breaks the Torturers neck just like before.

 

There. We have a scene were we get unmistankingly shown that Leliana was horribly tortured, we get more of an impression of the mages cruelty and we see leliana being a badass even while being seriously hurt, which makes it all the more impressive. 

It wouldn't even be that hard to change. They should allready have models and animation of Venturi (If that's the name) spellcasters so that's done and we allready have all the particle effects of electric magic. They should have all the assets to pull this off and it would be an improvement of the scene.

Additionaly you can't just use both the argument that "Bioware doesn't have time to fix it" and "It's an alpha it will be fixed in the release" at the same time.

[Chari]

Please take that baggage elsewhere (preferably to PM).

I'd rather take it to a moderator. But, alas, what happens in PM, stays in PM...

 

 

I think sticking some blood spatter on Leliana would be a sensible thing to do.  Better would be some cuts and bruising, if they can make the texture.

 

I don't need too much, I'm prepared to meet the medium half way, but when she looks basically fine and immediately starts kicking ass it's hard to take this as a big event that affects her character.

 

Though I wouldn't want her stripped, we've already had people fetishizing tied up Leliana even when she's clothed.

As sad as it is, Lelianna did go through an alike torture. Even worse, it seems, since this time they only starting torturing her and probably used some magical ****

So unfortunatelly she is way too familiar with the pain and can adapt better

[nici2412]

Geralt was tortured by common men, Leliana by mages.

1) We don't know if the torturer is a mage. Not all venatori are mages and he does look more like a regular soldier.

2) There is no evidence she was tortured with magic.On the other side, there are shown some ordinary torture tools and the torturer is pushing a ordinary knife against Lelanias neck.

[Chari]

There. We have a scene were we get unmistankingly shown that Leliana was horribly tortured, we get more of an impression of the mages cruelty and we see leliana being a badass even while being seriously hurt, which makes it all the more impressive. 

It wouldn't even be that hard to change. They should allready have models and animation of Venturi (If that's the name) spellcasters so that's done and we allready have all the particle effects of electric magic. They should have all the assets to pull this off and it would be an improvement of the scene.

Additionaly you can't just use both the argument that "Bioware doesn't have time to fix it" and "It's an alpha it will be fixed in the release" at the same time.

 

Maybe I'm a minority here, but a scene which involves a character getting tortured is way too much even for a M game. Especially since lots of folk find it sexually appealing. Ugh.

Game should scare, not give anxiety and panic attacks

 

Bioware probably doesn't have to completelly remake the scene. Maybe add some blood. I doubt much more is needed, since his scene is very optional

[Lebanese Dude]

All you're saying there is that we should all refrain from discussing the game until it's released. Begs the question: why don't you take your own advice and leave this thread be?

 

 

I am disappointed because _____ wasn't present in the demo.

I am disappointed because _____ isn't up to my standards.

You guys are essentially criticizing things that aren't even finished yet, complaining about the lack of polish in an out-dated pre-alpha build, then calling the developers incompetent for not doing their job correctly.

 

This isn't a discussion. This is a thinly veiled QQ thread.

 

This is a good premise for a discussion:

 

Leliana isn't covered in blood despite being tortured. Do you guys think that the game should include blood and gore in a torture scene or would that be too much? Do you think it's present or is the lack of blood effects in the demo indicative that such effects haven't been implemented yet?

 

This is not a discussion:

 

Leliana looks like a super-model despite being tortured. The developers are incapable of reproducing a proper torture scene. This isn't good and I am disappointed.

[Dan Fango]

I am disappointed because _____ wasn't present in the demo.
I am disappointed because _____ isn't up to my standards.
You guys are essentially discussing things that aren't even finished yet, complaining about the lack of polish in an out-dated pre-alpha build, then calling the developers incompetent for not doing their job correctly.
 
This isn't a discussion. This is a thinly veiled QQ thread.

Seems to me like the OP framed his concerns reasonably enough. Again, if you see no real point in discussing aspects of Inquisition before the game is launched that's fine - just don't presume to tell the rest of us that there's no point in our doing so. Or QQ some. Whatever.

[Aaleel]

I really wasn't blown away by the demo, nothing really got me excited or moved me from my wait until the game is out position.

 

I would list my reasons, but it seems like if you criticize the game at all some people respond to you as if you kicked their dog down the stairs or something.

[Amaror]

Maybe I'm a minority here, but a scene which involves a character getting tortured is way too much even for a M game. Especially since lots of folk find it sexually appealing. Ugh.

Game should scare, not give anxiety and panic attacks

 

Bioware probably doesn't have to completelly remake the scene. Maybe add some blood. I doubt much more is needed, since his scene is very optional

 

Have you read what i wrote?

In the scene the way i proposed it, we don't actually see Leliana get Tortured. It just gets very very heavily implied that she gets tortured using magic. This shows that she gets tortured, gets an emotional response from the player, because we know that she actually got tortured instead of just being told and since the torture is 100% magical it's saves Bioware from giving that character model ugly scars.

Have you every heard of rule 34? There are some weird people out there, but that doesn't mean you should compromise your product because they might get off on it.

[Lebanese Dude]

Seems to me like the OP framed his concerns reasonably enough. Again, if you see no real point in discussing aspects of Inquisition before the game is launched that's fine - just don't presume to tell the rest of us that there's no point in our doing so. Or QQ some. Whatever.

 

Nah discuss away. Some people here can stand to work on phrasing their opinions in a proper manner without unnecessary negativity.

 

I mean I didn't like how there is still some clipping in the demo. I just didn't post about it because I knew the game isn't polished yet. I would assume most of you know this.

[Chari]

Have you read what i wrote?

In the scene the way i proposed it, we don't actually see Leliana get Tortured. It just gets very very heavily implied that she gets tortured using magic. This shows that she gets tortured, gets an emotional response from the player, because we know that she actually got tortured instead of just being told and since the torture is 100% magical it's saves Bioware from giving that character model ugly scars.

Have you every heard of rule 34? There are some weird people out there, but that doesn't mean you should compromise your product because they might get off on it.

I was pretty convinced she was tortured by the face that she was kept in chains and we found her in a torture room. I ain't sure about you. But for me? It's more than enough. Even with such a minor scene, I'm not sending her there. Never. No one deserves to be tortured

I can't even check Features pics on Deviantart without seeing (and I do use safe search) bondaged and oversexualised chicks at least once per 24 pics. If it was up to me, I wouldn not give these motherfuckers any more ****** fodder

[Dan Fango]

Nah discuss away. Some people here can stand to work on phrasing their opinions in a proper manner without unnecessary negativity.
 
I mean I didn't like how there is still some clipping in the demo. I just didn't post about it because I knew the game isn't polished yet. I would assume most of you know this.

All of which would mean more if this thread was unnecessarily negative. Besides, before you ask people to assume that every kink, glitch and oversight will be worked out before launch, please take a moment to remember the unfinished state in which it's predecessor was launched.

Can we bring this back on topic?

[Enigmatick]

I was pretty convinced she was tortured by the face that she was kept in chains and we found her in a torture room. I ain't sure about you. But for me? It's more than enough. Even with such a minor scene, I'm not sending her there. Never. No one deserves to be tortured

I can't even check Features pics on Deviantart without seeing (and I do use safe search) bondaged and oversexualised chicks at least once per 24 pics. If it was up to me, I wouldn not give these motherfuckers any more ****** fodder

With no visible battle damage on her face or body the scene ends up looking like she was almost tortured and that we saved her in the nick of time, which isn't what supposedly happened. Because of this all her actions derived from her being angry at getting set in to enemy territory only to be tortured just come off as being bitchy to the player, there's a disconnect in visual storytelling there.

[Chari]

With no visible battle damage on her face or body the scene ends up looking like she was almost tortured and that we saved her in the nick of time, which isn't what supposedly happened. Because of this all her actions derived from her being angry at getting set in to enemy territory only to be tortured just come off as being bitchy to the player, there's a disconnect in visual storytelling there.

The poor girl was raped in the past and now was tortured/about to get tortured

And you call her bitchy?

Lol, yeah, blame the victim, not the offender if you want. But geeze, this is bullshit

[Aaleel]

The fact that Leliana says nothing that happened here is something you would want to hear about makes the lack of marks even worse to me because nothing on screen backs up what she's saying.

 

Also in the video it's said that your relationship with Leliana will be different because you sent her there.  If it was your choice to send her there and she's only been tortured because of that decision a battered, scared Leliana would better serve the purpose of did I do the right thing.

 

Everything is just too clean.

[Naktis]

About 4th Leliana torture....well You wanted that it was like Witcher torture ? I admit those torture scene and marks makes it much more serious...but I hope seeing naked tities is not your main reason