290 réponses à ce sujet

[Neon Rising Winter]

I agree with everything you said OP. Especially the torture scene disturbed me. I think this are the small details, which discern a good from a great game. I don't know   why bioware did the scene like this. Either they didn't want too spent any ressources on making Leliana look different. Or they are so afraid of showing skin, that making her look like usual is the better option.Even if it's highly unrealistic.But in this case, they could have shown at least some traces of torture on her face. This somehow reminds me of the bathing scene in underwear in mass effect or the clothed romance scenes in all bioware games.

This is how a tortured person should like and not in full armor without any sign of harm.

:

 

What, freshly showered having just been visited by the dungeon hair stylist, wearing appropriate clothing to maintain their dignity and injuries enough to suggest a few stylish scars in their future, but nothing too traumatic (using fiction logic, let's not get into what the injuries would imply in reality)

 

So what's the difference?

[Chari]

 

The fact that Leliana says nothing that happened here is something you would want to hear about makes the lack of marks even worse to me because nothing on screen backs up what she's saying.

 

Also in the video it's said that your relationship with Leliana will be different because you sent her there.  If it was your choice to send her there and she's only been tortured because of that decision and battered, scared Leliana would better serve the purpose of did I do the right thing.

 

Everything is just too clean.

Lelianna went through worse than that. She's a badass rogue, she can handle fear

Do you want details? What and where they cut, inserted, slashed and stabbed? That's grimdark

[Dan Fango]

What, freshly showered having just been visited by the dungeon hair stylist, wearing appropriate clothing to maintain their dignity and injuries enough to suggest a few stylish scars in their future, but nothing too traumatic (using fiction logic, let's not get into what the injuries would imply in reality)
 
So what's the difference?

What a ridiculous post.

[wolfhowwl]

Lelianna went through worse than that. She's a badass rogue, she can handle fear
Do you want details? What and where they cut, inserted, slashed and stabbed? That's grimdark

Yeah she handles the situation so well she goes nuts doing negotiations.

[Neon Rising Winter]

What a ridiculous post.

I'm quite happy to discuss it further if you could just let me know specifically which bits you think are inaccurate. Physically the model is relatively well groomed apart from blood, noticably so with the hair. They are sufficiently clothed that for a male it would not be considered humiliating levels skin exposured. The injuries are all to the back which, which while in reality might be more severe, in this kind of fiction is not seen a debilitating.

 

Could you elaborate?

[Burricho]

Oh golly, my immersion is broken, whatever will i do. Oh wait, I know now not give two craps

[MiyoKit]

I agree with the fetch quest. I said it somewhere before, the woman is telling you a sad story about the death of her husband, and you pretend to be interested until you go 'kbai' and bugger off. It was so awkward.

 

I don't agree with anything else, really. The bear, to me, was badly animated, but everything else is just 'Dragon Age'.

[Chari]

Yeah she handles the situation so well she goes nuts doing negotiations.

Let me see...

Mages caused Redcliff destruction in DA:O, the Blights, the civil war between mages and templars, and now they have also killed the leaders of chantry, circles etc in one single nucler blast

Yeah. I think she has every reason not to trust a nutcase who made his own son an abomination

[Suledin]

This...

"4) Leliana. First, the torture scene. It was nothing and I mean nothing like a torture scene. There was absolutely no signs of torture on Leliana"



I guess you've watched the demo without sound, then. 

[Dan Fango]

I'm quite happy to discuss it further if you could just let me know specifically which bits you think are inaccurate. Physically the model is relatively well groomed apart from blood, noticably so with the hair. They are sufficiently clothed that for a male it would not be considered humiliating levels skin exposured. The injuries are all to the back which, which while in reality might be more severe, in this kind of fiction is not seen a debilitating.
 
Could you elaborate?

Nope, I'm content to leave it to the good people reading this thread to decide for themselves whether they can discern any difference between the two.

[Neon Rising Winter]

Nope, I'm content enough to leave it to the good people reading this thread to decide for themselves whether they can discern any difference between the two.

Well okay. In that case, good people reading this thread, if one of you could be so kind as to tell me what the disagreement is? My Firefox mind reading addon is yet again failing to deliver.

[Gtdef]

Personally I don't bother too much when the visuals aren't representative of a scene. After all it's a game and there are more important things than visual acting. There will be a time where doing this will be cost efficient but I don't think this time is now even if Witcher does it.

 

The strangling is way worse and pretty much the most stupid thing in the demo. It's like Tallis opening the prison door from the inside on a certain well discussed cutscene. No one can think "cool" when he sees these things. They think "whaaat?". Which breaks immersion etc. The only reason that scene exists is to show how cool Leliana is. Well she is not. She got captured and we had to save her. Basically what I've got out of this demo is that it's better to leave Leliana in chains.

 

Fanboy levels are of the charts on this thread, I'm not even taking their posts seriously. "It will be fixed" is not valid. You don't know what will happen and not everyone of us trusts Bioware enough to deliver. Both DA2 and ME3 have multiple instances where they break the narrative consistency because they want to cut corners. The OP makes a great case of how the "simulation" fails in the demo. Bad enemy/animal ai, bad torture scene, Leliana becoming cutscene superman.

 

Even someone made a case of rule34. Whatever. Don't go to the beach in the summer cause some rule34 creep will add you to the internet in cartoon colors. Like those people need to see Leliana half naked to do their thing. And it's actually funny cause the rule34 artists don't even bother with Witcher 2 that shows a ton of skin. If that's your argument then it's the weakest one in this thread.

 

The demo has issues, not just in context but in direction too. You can say that "it's too early to know" as much as you like, but when obvious things miss from the most well prepared piece of information the developers show, then complaining is perfectly normal.

[Dan Fango]

Well okay. In that case, good people reading this thread, if one of you could be so kind as to tell me what the disagreement is? My Firefox mind reading addon is yet again failing to deliver.

Oh dear.

[Lebanese Dude]

All of which would mean more if this thread was unnecessarily negative. Besides, before you ask people to assume that every kink, glitch and oversight will be worked out before launch, please take a moment to remember the unfinished state in which it's predecessor was launched.

Can we bring this back on topic?

 

Comparing DA2 to DAI? You realize DAI has received up to four times as much development time right?

[Dan Fango]

Comparing DA2 to DAI? You realize DAI has received up to four times as much development time right?

I'm well aware. The point stands.

[Burricho]

Personally I don't bother too much when the visuals aren't representative of a scene. After all it's a game and there are more important things than visual acting. There will be a time where doing this will be cost efficient but I don't think this time is now even if Witcher does it.

 

The strangling is way worse and pretty much the most stupid thing in the demo. It's like Tallis opening the prison door from the inside on a certain well discussed cutscene. No one can think "cool" when he sees these things. They think "whaaat?". Which breaks immersion etc. The only reason that scene exists is to show how cool Leliana is. Well she is not. She got captured and we had to save her. Basically what I've got out of this demo is that it's better to leave Leliana in chains.

 

Fanboy levels are of the charts on this thread, I'm not even taking their posts seriously. "It will be fixed" is not valid. You don't know what will happen and not everyone of us trusts Bioware enough to deliver. Both DA2 and ME3 have multiple instances where they break the narrative consistency because they want to cut corners. The OP makes a great case of how the "simulation" fails in the demo. Bad enemy/animal ai, bad torture scene, Leliana becoming cutscene superman.

 

Even someone made a case of rule34. Whatever. Don't go to the beach in the summer cause some rule34 creep will add you to the internet in cartoon colors. Like those people need to see Leliana half naked to do their thing. And it's actually funny cause the rule34 artists don't even bother with Witcher 2 that shows a ton of skin. If that's your argument then it's the weakest one in this thread.

 

The demo has issues, not just in context but in direction too. You can say that "it's too early to know" as much as you like, but when obvious things miss from the most well prepared piece of information the developers show, then complaining is perfectly normal.

Fanboyism is arguing with something you disagree with? I agree, it's kinda silly that leilana didn't show any obvious signs of torture. this doesn't bother me whatsoever. Last time I checked this was not 'bear hunting sim 2014', that level of animal ai for a minor sideshow is silly, in something like that werewolf game it's viable, but this is not anything major in the game at all. You know what pisses me off? You calling me (and others) fanboys for having a different opinion.

[Aaleel]

Nah discuss away. Some people here can stand to work on phrasing their opinions in a proper manner without unnecessary negativity.

 

I mean I didn't like how there is still some clipping in the demo. I just didn't post about it because I knew the game isn't polished yet. I would assume most of you know this.

 

Well let's see when the DA2 demo came out people expressed concerns only to be answered with it's an early build, there is still 'x' amount of time until release, the game hasn't gone gold yet, etc.  Game came out, the demo was totally representative of the final product.

 

Fast forward to the ME3 demo.  Once again people expressed concerns only to be met with it's an early build, there's still time until release, etc, etc.   Once again when the game came out, not one stitch of difference from the demo to the final release.

 

So if you want to say you know for sure some these things will be cleaned up then more power to you.  I on the other hand think it is what it is.

[Gtdef]

Fanboyism is arguing with something you disagree with? I agree, it's kinda silly that leilana didn't show any obvious signs of torture. this doesn't bother me whatsoever. Last time I checked this was not 'bear hunting sim 2014', that level of animal ai for a minor sideshow is silly, in something like that werewolf game it's viable, but this is not anything major in the game at all. You know what pisses me off? You calling me (and others) fanboys for having a different opinion.

 

Fanboyism even if it doesn't seem too, has an exact meaning. Being irrational and overly aggressive when something you like gets badmouthed. If that's what you did, then you are fanboy. If you didn't and made a well constructed argument then you are not. If you feel like taking this personally then I rest my case.

[Wulfram]

I'm fairly sure it's intended to be a neck snap, rather than a strangling.  Going by the abrupt movement at the end.  Maybe they could punch up the snap sound to make it clearer.  And it might work better without a helmet?

 

Either way, it's hardly over-the-top badassness compared to the rest of this game, or previous ones.  It's rather restrained really.

 

To really fit in with the combat animations, she should do a 360 loop over the restraints, her boots start glowing and then she kicks her captor's head clean off.

[Lebanese Dude]

I'm well aware. The point stands.

 

No it doesn't.

 

Clearly you know nothing of game development.

[Lebanese Dude]

Well let's see when the DA2 demo came out people expressed concerns only to be answered with it's an early build, there is still 'x' amount of time until release, the game hasn't gone gold yet, etc.  Game came out, the demo was totally representative of the final product.

 

Fast forward to the ME3 demo.  Once again people expressed concerns only to be met with it's an early build, there's still time until release, etc, etc.   Once again when the game came out, not one stitch of difference from the demo to the final release.

 

So if you want to say you know for sure some these things will be cleaned up then more power to you.  I on the other hand think it is what it is.
 

DA2: much shorter development time

 

ME3: different team that is completely irrelevant to the Dragon Age team

 

Exactly. Way more power to me. Its because your assumptions have no merit. This is a different game with a different development cycle. If you wish to be overly pessimistic and cynical, then more power to you. I, however, understand this is a fresh slate for a company looking to rid itself of its negative reputation.

[Dan Fango]

No it doesn't.
 
Clearly you know nothing of game development.

You don't know me Lebanese Dude. What is it you do (besides play the sycophant)?

[Mihura]

I agree with everything you said OP. Especially the torture scene disturbed me. I think this are the small details, which discern a good from a great game. I don't know   why bioware did the scene like this. Either they didn't want too spent any ressources on making Leliana look different. Or they are so afraid of showing skin, that making her look like usual is the better option.Even if it's highly unrealistic.But in this case, they could have shown at least some traces of torture on her face. This somehow reminds me of the bathing scene in underwear in mass effect or the clothed romance scenes in all bioware games.

This is how a tortured person should like and not in full armor without any sign of harm.

:

 

Well that is not really true, that is your PC and Geralt is someone that is not that important, hence the hanging if you do not escape.

Why do you not show how they torture women in the game.