290 réponses à ce sujet

[Schreckstoff]

I don't find it obligatory to show skin for a torture scene to be 'great'. It does however in my opinion add strength to it and make it more contemptible. But as I stated in my post, DA could go with the second one, with armor fully on but scars and such on the face. I do find something being shown a better mechanic than nothing. Show don't just tell.

I don't disagree but you always have to consider that for some reason or another Bioware gets criticized for pretty much doing anything while CDPR gets away with much worse.

[ForgottenWarrior]

Completely agree about Fetch quests.

[Burricho]

I remember even in ME 1 how cutscenes would include the characters choice of armour. Being pretty impressed by it at the time I'll tell you.

In ME 3 characters would sometimes be seen in cutscenes with weapons they were not equipped with. That was less good.

Yeah shep pulling out generipistol/rifle every cutscene was obnoxious.

[ForgottenWarrior]

I don't disagree but you always have to consider that for some reason or another Bioware gets criticized for pretty much doing anything while CDPR gets away with much worse.

Such as?

[Mihura]

TW2 did portray captivity / tortured in a better manner than most video games. There are however different persons to compare with rather than just Geralt.

 

Spoiler

One scene is where Mary Louisa La Valette is being interrogated and is stripped topless, while at the same time being threatened by burning stick. It's is both threatening and humiliating.

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

The torture of Triss Merigold is more 'subtle'. She is still fully clothed but has visual scars on her which identify that she has been tortured. 

 

 

This approach would be more suitable for DA and hopefully would be present.

 

I wouldn't call TW2 exemplary in its method of portraying torture, but at least it showcases it instead of having none.

 

In the first case, at the demo that was shown, CDPR was criticized that La Valette did not have any sings of torture and that she was there only for titillation. They after that did put some cuts on her but if you wait to save her, she screams in pain but you do not see heavy sighs of her previews screams. Since the guy was torturing her with hot metal, it was indeed strange that her face and body had almost no sigh of burning, if none really.

A argument could be made that Geralt had a lot more heavy physical sighs and that because she is a woman you have to be careful, I would say they would care less about that and more about fanservice.

In Triss case I can say was done better to some extent, you know she was being through hell and she cannot use healing magic on her self.

Bottom line I really do not need to see gory things, or heavy torture on people. They can just leave hints on dialogue or some light cuts. The Witcher is nothing like DAI not even on mood of the setting nor how the way they approach their demographic and I am glad for that.

[Amaror]

 

How likely are the scenes in The Witcher to occur?

 

Because I suspect one influence with this DAI scene is simply that this relatively unusual bad outcome, and thus doesn't have a high budget for textures.

 

None of the female torture scenes are mandatory. The scene were Geralt has the bloody back is mandatory, it's the beginning of the first real mission in The Witcher 2.

 

 

Spoiler

 

This scene happens on the same first real mission. However it is entirely optional. Well kindof. In the mission you try to break out of prison. There are 2 different ways to escape. In one of the ways you stumble into the torture chamber and save the women. In the other way you only meet her after the torture. The ways don't get chosen by a direct choice, but just depend on which way you go when you are trying to escape. 

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

This scene is also optional and similar. You basically have two different main missions. One is saving Triss and there is another main mission. You can only do one of them, because once one of them is completed the final mission of the game takes place.

 

 

 

So basically both of these scenes are optional

[Amaror]

I don't disagree but you always have to consider that for some reason or another Bioware gets criticized for pretty much doing anything while CDPR gets away with much worse.

 

Yeah obviously noone ever complained about CDPR. Not even when they included collectable naked women cards in The Witcher ... oh wait.

But no matter, i mean it's not like Bioware deserves critique. None of their latest games had any flaws right? .... oh wait.

[Schreckstoff]

Such as?

Like Bioware getting flak over changing Ashley while Triss got a serious boob and assjob from TW1 to TW2 just as well.

 

Not enough ethnic diversity, not enough gay romances of which Witcher has neither (sexuality due to source material)

 

From the top of my head.

 

 

Yeah obviously noone ever complained about CDPR. Not even when they included collectable naked women cards in The Witcher ... oh wait.

But no matter, i mean it's not like Bioware deserves critique. None of their latest games had any flaws right? .... oh wait.

not nearly to the same extent.

 

Funnily the sex cards were heavily censored for the US, even asscracks were concealed.

[TheTurtle]

Yeah obviously noone ever complained about CDPR. Not even when they included collectable naked women cards in The Witcher ... oh wait.
But no matter, i mean it's not like Bioware deserves critique. None of their latest games had any flaws right? .... oh wait.

There has to be a rule against using oh wait more than once in a single post

[Brialyn]

I guess I don't really understand why you'd be upset about #1.  You're the inquisitor, you've got so many things to deal with they gave you advisers in this game. The fact that you stopped and talk to the woman at all is amazing with all that is on your plate.  You don't have time to feel hurt or sympathize with her too much.  If you can manage to find her ring and get it back to her, great, shows that you are still somewhat empathetic. I just don't see someone with so much on their plate getting all emotional about it.  I don't know maybe you could have ended the conversation with "my condolences," would that make it more palatable?  

 

2 and 3 I recognize were just ideas but I'd rather the devs allocate their resources to things of more import. Bears and dragons are meant for killing.  Perhaps there is something in the game where if you run far enough the bear will stop chasing you?  This would help you avoid combat if that is your aim.  Maybe if you stick to the roads you'll avoid it?  Just doesn't really feel like it's important. 

 

I don't think you have enough context regarding #4 to speak too critically about it.  Yes, she could have looked more beat up (a bruise here or there and some blood) but again it's a matter of resources.  They would have to create another model for a very short scene.  Maybe it's a cop out but I don't think I need every detail spelled out in a video game.  I get the point that she is being tortured and it is more than likely a less than pleasant experience.  

 

Some people have pointed out the voice over repetition, and I agree it was a bit annoying to hear the same line multiple times but in the grand scheme of things...meh.  Also, I feel the need to point out that this is a demo.  It wouldn't be the first time that a company has cut things out a of demo or altered it just a bit (I'm thinking of the Leliana cut scene issue).  I'm not saying they did or that it's even likely, but I am saying it's been done in the past. Point is it's a demo. I don't think it's anything to get overly critical about at this point.  It's meant to give us and idea of what the game is like but not to give away the game. 

[ForgottenWarrior]

Not enough ethnic diversity, not enough gay romances of which Witcher has neither (sexuality due to source material)

I think that's the main reason why people choose Witcher games over DA's.

[xyzmkrysvr]

1) The miscellaneous quest / fetch quest. In the first demo, we see a bereaved woman whose husband was evidently killed by templars and his wedding ring was stolen from his body... There was no greetings, no consoling, no options to investigate more, nothing of the sort. It was as if the woman saw the Inquisitor and said "Right, you will get my ring for me because you look important." to which you the Inquisitor reply "Okay, goodbye." and just left. That was really weird and awkward. 

 

I completely agree. I hated the way that entire scene played out... I'm hoping the side quests are NOTHING like DA:II or ME:3. It was so stupid when I'd find random things in DA:II and then hand them over and hear a pointless line of dialogue - the entire time I was thinking "what's the point"? 

 

how they do not use the hands or body to open doors

 

I noticed that, too, and thought it was really jarring. But I honestly can't remember... was there a door-opening animation in DA:O? 

 

The only thing that made me go "huh?!" was her very shiny glossy lipstick. It felt out of place for her character and the situation. But hey all in all that's a very tiny criticism from me.

 

That lip gloss was atrocious. No woman in her right mind thinks glittery, frosted lips looks attractive... unless they're 12 years old. 

[Enigmatick]

I think that's the main reason why people choose Witcher games over DA's.

I don't mean to derail but how the **** is a lack of very optional things that don't fit the setting a detriment?

 

I don't ever like using this phrase but for a forum community of a company who used "Artistic Integrity" as an excuse you people sure want everyone to bend over backwards and compromise their artistic integrity to get things you want.

[Enigmatick]

I noticed that, too, and thought it was really jarring. But I honestly can't remember... was there a door-opening animation in DA:O?

Not one in which a character physically touched a door. Speaking of which didn't Brent Knowles write an entire chapter about doors in video game design?

[pdusen]

Am I the only one who finds the level of focus on whether or not Leliana "looks tortured enough" in this thread more than a little disturbing?

 

The strangling is way worse and pretty much the most stupid thing in the demo. It's like Tallis opening the prison door from the inside on a certain well discussed cutscene. No one can think "cool" when he sees these things. They think "whaaat?". Which breaks immersion etc.

 

Really? No one? No one at all? Because I'm pretty sure I thought both things were cool. Stop presuming you speak for other people.

[Itzsj]

I don't exactly feel like criticizing all the things mentioned in the original post, I would like to mention why, trying to stay clear of the fanboyism I already saw after a few posts...

 

1. Yes, the encounter was somewhat abrupt, and yes, it is (probably) just a fetch quest. For me, the question is why they showed it in the demo? To show the mage-templar tension, they say. While I do not have any problem if one fetch quest looks such abrupt, I do feel to show the conflict, they could have chosen a much serious encounter, or at least made this one look a bit more serious if it was to end up in a demo.

 

2. More options is welcome, especially, as you mentioned later that saving the bear would have made things better from a role-playing perspective while playing as a Dalish elf, for example. Now, as it is a game, the question everyone would ask, and they already did, which one gives me what (XP)? And like everyone else, I'd also chose XP and loot over saving the poor animal.... unless, Bioware makes me pay for going after XP every time. And, I hear that in Inquisition, if you hunt wild animals too much, that may affect the world adversely. So, the developers have already taken care of the possible problem (I think). So even though the bear was killed, I think, that doesn't mean you can kill every wild animal without repercussions.

 

3. I'd just say that it has been already mentioned that Dragons are not necessarily a good thing in Thedas, even if they don't always interrupt you on your journey, like in Skyrim. That said, I would like to see some sort of 'real world' changes to point to the problems they may cause... that is, say, if you don't slay a certain Dragon during Act I (if it exists, like in DA2), then you find in Act II (if that exists, also) that the Dragon is wrecking havoc in an area. Just to give you some 'real' reasons to do the deed. But I think I heard in a demo/interview that being able to slay a Dragon gives you more power as the Inquisitor (no idea how exactly that would work in-game).

 

4. No, she didn't seem like she was physically tortured, and yes, like others said, she may have been tortured mentally. But wait, didn't that torturer take a sharp knife to hold it to her throat? Maybe that's just to threat her, maybe he was just warming up... we don't know how long she has been captive. Do I bother? From a visual perspective, some signs could have been there, from a gameplay perspective, not much to bother. But to me, it has nothing to do with 'mature' tag. You can show signs of even physical torture without getting a mature tag, I think. About killing the torturer, well, does an armor really make him death-proof? I doubt, and I'd like to say Bioware meant to show that Leliana could have killed him anytime, was just waiting for the Inquisitor to show up. About Leliana's attitude, I think I remember Mike clarifying in that same video why Leliana acted strange and how the Inquisitor's actions will affect the opinions of the companions. That may explain her being rude to her rescuers. Again, we are not aware of the whole scene.... I'd just give Leliana the benefit of doubt and think that it was a very poor choice the Inquisitor had made which caused her captivity. About the fight scene, there was an option to stop Leliana, we just saw one possibility, and I'd like to hope there were many others.

 

About not being able to control Leliana? She is not a follower this time round, and she goes on her own through cut-scenes... okay. Would I have loved it to be able to control her? Why not?

[Aaleel]

Am I the only one who finds the level of focus on whether or not Leliana "looks tortured enough" in this thread more than a little disturbing?



Really? No one? No one at all? Because I'm pretty sure I thought both things were cool. Stop presuming you speak for other people.

People asking for the game to actually depict in some way what it says is going on is disturbing behavior? It's not that she doesn't looked tortured enough, it's that she doesn't look like she's been tortured at all. You can put blood on characters after fights to show that they've been through a battle but you can't put a cut, bruise or blemish of any kind on a person that has supposedly be tortured. I don't see why finding this odd constitutes disturbing behavior.

[pdusen]

People asking for the game to actually depict in some way what it says is going on is disturbing behavior. It's not that she doesn't looked tortured enough, it's that she doesn't look like she's been tortured at all. You can put blood on characters after fights to show that they've been through a battle but you can't put a cut, bruise or blemish of any kind on a person that has supposedly be tortured. I don't see why finding this odd constitutes disturbing behavior.

 

Because everyone is obsessing with it. I can look at the demo and easily find 10 other things that don't appear the way that they probably should, and probably aren't even as nitpicky, but for some reason Leliana not looking sufficiently beat up and abused is the thing people care about? Tell me that isn't a little messed up.

[Rawgrim]

Like Bioware getting flak over changing Ashley while Triss got a serious boob and assjob from TW1 to TW2 just as well.

 

Not enough ethnic diversity, not enough gay romances of which Witcher has neither (sexuality due to source material)

 

From the top of my head.

 

 

 

not nearly to the same extent.

 

Funnily the sex cards were heavily censored for the US, even asscracks were concealed.

 

Ethnic diversity just for the sake of it, isn`t allways a good idea. Lets say a game is set in Africa somewhere. Odds are there would be alot more black people in that game simply because of the geography. The same goes for fantasy worlds.

[Gannayev of Dreams]

Because everyone is obsessing with it. I can look at the demo and easily find 10 other things that don't appear the way that they probably should, and probably aren't even as nitpicky, but for some reason Leliana not looking sufficiently beat up and abused is the thing people care about? Tell me that isn't a little messed up.

 

Perhaps you should steer the conversation towards these 10 very vaguely mentioned "things" then, if you are so disturbed.  That would be more helpful for everyone.  As it stands, your comments just look like you trying to claim the moral high-ground.

[Aaleel]

Because everyone is obsessing with it. I can look at the demo and easily find 10 other things that don't appear the way that they probably should, and probably aren't even as nitpicky, but for some reason Leliana not looking sufficiently beat up and abused is the thing people care about? Tell me that isn't a little messed up.

Probably because that was a focus of the scene, and part of the story of the scene. I'm not even a huge immersion person but it still looked funny to me. Especially since she says you don't want to know what went on here. You're watching it like really what exactly went on because you look fine to me. Then Bioware says you sent her there and your relationship won't be the same with her. Having her look injured would drive home that point more. I did this to her, what did I do, did I really have to send her there, etc. I still don't see how there's anything wrong with wanting this type of experience.

[Schreckstoff]

Ethnic diversity just for the sake of it, isn`t allways a good idea. Lets say a game is set in Africa somewhere. Odds are there would be alot more black people in that game simply because of the geography. The same goes for fantasy worlds.

Not all people in Europe during the middle ages were white. Gypsies existed well into the 13th century already for example.

[Heimdall]

Ethnic diversity just for the sake of it, isn`t allways a good idea. Lets say a game is set in Africa somewhere. Odds are there would be alot more black people in that game simply because of the geography. The same goes for fantasy worlds.

A namedrop of Jade Empire fits here.  The fantasy world is loosely based on chinese wuxia stories... so the entire cast (Save one joke character voiced by John Cleese) is asian.  I've never heard anyone complain about a about a lack of ethnic diversity there.

 

EDIT: I also think there's one indian character that has you try spicy food in one sequence...

[Rawgrim]

Not all people in Europe during the middle ages were white. Gypsies existed well into the 13th century already for example.

 

The Witcher games doesn't take place in Europe.

[Joseph Warrick]

I feel feedback is a lot more useful when we plainly report our impressions rather than trying to play game editors.

 

So things like "I got bored during this part" and "in this scene I didn't understand why this happened" will be in my opinion a lot more useful to the developers than stuff like "this character has no reason to do this and this scene is unnecessary". At this point you're not providing feedback but trying to edit the game.

 

The trick is that, for example, if you say a scene is unnecessary, a developer will have a reason to say it's necessary. A developer will always be able to counter that type of statements with their own reasons. But raw, no-judgment impressions like "I got bored here" or "I thought this scene was funny" are impossible to refute (they don't need to be so generic, either. The point is to avoid telling the devs what to do and focusing on yourself). If that's the impression you had, then it is what it is.