120 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

God, this is the biggest gameplay/lore segregation I've encountered in DA. David just basically confirmed that the blood magic skilltree doesn't exist. Mindblown. 

 

Well good thing it's not a specialization anymore, getting back on track. lol 

[TheodoricFriede]

God, this is the biggest gameplay/lore segregation I've encountered in DA. David just basically confirmed that the blood magic skilltree doesn't exist. Mindblown. 

 

Well good thing it's not a specialization anymore, getting back on track. lol 

...No.

 

No he didnt.

 

He didnt do that at all.

 

He said that you can use blood magic to amplify lyrium spells and lyrium to amplify blood magic spells.

[KainD]

...No.

 

No he didnt.

 

He didnt do that at all.

 

He said that you can use blood magic to amplify lyrium spells and lyrium to amplify blood magic spells.

 

Lyrium spells = ALL spells = blood magic spells. 

You can use lyrium to cast a fireball, you can use blood to cast fireball. 

You can use blood to mind control people AND you can use lyrium to mind control people. 

 

Lyrium is a source of power for any spell. Blood is a source of power for any spell. Lyrium is not a school of magic, Blood is not a school of magic. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Kain, you're going to give yourself a headache at this rate.  I don't think you'll get a clear answer until we play the game.  DG likes keeping things a little vague on purpose.  There could be some big spoiler reason that explains that whole lyrium/blood magic confusion.  Try not to drive yourself nuts, okay?  

[KainD]

Kain, you're going to give yourself a headache at this rate.  I don't think you'll get a clear answer until we play the game.  DG likes keeping things a little vague on purpose.  There could be some big spoiler reason that explains that whole lyrium/blood magic confusion.  Try not to drive yourself nuts, okay?  

 

But, but... it all starts to make sense now, I see the light! The specializations in both DA games, they were a lie, that's not how things work!! 

The only reasons blood magic is forbiden is because it is more potent than lyrium, and because it is an S&M way to cast spells, which is looked down upon. 

 

In a way I was right all along, with my previous theory. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Be careful.  This is David we're talking about here.  It's best not to say, "I called it" until the game comes out.  He's really good at yanking our expectations and pulling them in a different direction entirely.  For me, it's one of the charms of playing their games.  

[KainD]

Be careful.  This is David we're talking about here.  It's best not to say, "I called it" until the game comes out.  He's really good at yanking our expectations and pulling them in a different direction entirely.  For me, it's one of the charms of playing their games.  

 

It would be a bit easier if he didn't contradict himself in direct quotes sometimes. I do understand that he was searching for words to describe what he means, but it leads to confusion. I still wonder what he means when he says that mind control requires a specific type of power. Could it just be the eagerness of an individual to do such things to other individuals? Could it just refer to the fact that it is a maleficar magic? 

[TheodoricFriede]

But, but... it all starts to make sense now, I see the light! The specializations in both DA games, they were a lie, that's not how things work!! 

The only reasons blood magic is forbiden is because it is more potent than lyrium, and because it is an S&M way to cast spells, which is looked down upon. 

 

In a way I was right all along, with my previous theory. 

Oh, you are trolling. Ok.

 

My mistake.

[KainD]

Oh, you are trolling. Ok.

 

My mistake.

 

^THIS is your mistake. Dropping a single snarky comment at a friend obviously undermines the whole topic. 

[TheodoricFriede]

^THIS is your mistake. 

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Believe me.

[KainD]

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Believe me.

 

A bit sad that your desire for critical thinking of lore aspects is so low that you would rather dismiss the whole discussion at the first possible opportunity. 

[TheodoricFriede]

A bit sad that your desire for critical thinking of lore aspects is so low that you would rather dismiss the whole discussion at the first possible opportunity. 

I think its a bit sad that your so called critical thinking cant handle the concept of:

 

"There is blood magic"

 

"There is lyrium magic"

 

"Either can augment the other"

 

Its not that hard of a concept. There is no discussion here. There is no "lore aspect" to discuss.

[KainD]

I think its a bit sad that your so called critical thinking cant handle the concept of:

 

"There is blood magic"

 

"There is lyrium magic"

 

"Either can augment the other"

 

Its not that hard of a concept. There is no discussion here. There is no "lore aspect" to discuss.

 

''Lyrium is a source of power for ALL magic.'' - Gaider. 

 

There is no lyrium magic, there is a lyrium source. 

Blood is also a source. 

How does a source amplify a source and what do they amplify if both are just sources? 

[Devtek]

Yeah, but you can also use blood magic as a source for.. your blood magic? And you can use blood magic to.. empower blood magic? Bloodmagicception.. 

 

There is no lyrium magic, there is a lyrium source.

 

You can use blood as a source for magic because blood in Thedas always has power in it (maybe except for dwarves not sure).  You could theoretically use blood to strengthen a fireball, that doesn't make the fire ball blood magic.  It is elemental magic enhanced with blood. That doesn't make it blood magic.  Blood magic is a specific school of magic like other people have said.

 

There is actually lyrium magic, its what templars use. Except that mages can't use it, or at least there hasn't been any example of templar like magic being used by a mage, could be lack on knowledge or it could be harmful for a mage to use it themselves, we don't know. You could consider it an "anti-magic" as it mostly is used as a way to disrupt other magic.

[TheodoricFriede]

Also what people seem to be forgetting is that you aren't just using blood, you are using the pain, anger, despair, and hate that comes with it.

[TheodoricFriede]

'

How does a source amplify a source and what do they amplify if both are just sources? 

The same way you can stoke a fire with wood, coal, or lighter fluid.

 

The "fire" is the ability to use magic at all.

[KainD]

You can use blood as a source for magic because blood in Thedas always has power in it (maybe except for dwarves not sure).  You could theoretically use blood to strengthen a fireball, that doesn't make the fire ball blood magic.  It is elemental magic enhanced with blood. That doesn't make it blood magic.  Blood magic is a specific school of magic like other people have said.

 

And like I said, if drawing the power from the blood to cast a spell ( any spell, like fireball ) is not blood magic, then blood magic doesn't exist. Why? Because David just said that you can use lyrium to power ''blood magic'' spells, which doesn't make sense, since it won't be blood magic anymore. So blood magic is used as an umbrella term for all the malificar magic. 

[KainD]

Also what people seem to be forgetting is that you aren't just using blood, you are using the pain, anger, despair, and hate that comes with it.

 

Yes, but that is so much different than merely using blood, and you can use pain and disrepair while powering spells with lyrium. 

[TheodoricFriede]

And like I said, if drawing the power from the blood to cast a spell ( any spell, like fireball ) is not blood magic, then blood magic doesn't exist. Why? Because David just said that you can use lyrium to power ''blood magic'' spells, which doesn't make sense, since it won't be blood magic anymore. So blood magic is used as an umbrella term for all the malificar magic. 

No. You clearly dont understand.

 

Blood mage wants to break down a door.

 

Blood mage using blood doesnt have the strength to break down the door.

 

Blood mage has lyrium.

 

Blood mage uses a blood magic spell FORTIFIED WITH LYRIUM to break down door.

[KainD]

The same way you can stoke a fire with wood, coal, or lighter fluid.

 

The "fire" is the ability to use magic at all.

 

Very good analogy, but wood, coal and lighter fluid don't amplify each other, they stack, and so does the power from all sources. Obviously if you use blood + lyrium the spell is stronger, you have more power. But what does that have to do with the discussion? 

[Riknas]

Okay, I'm genuinely surprised how many people aren't getting this.

 

Blood Magic is a TYPE of magic, and a SOURCE of magic. You can increase the power of your magic by using blood, but there are also some spells that can only be used using Blood Magic. 

 

Lyrium is STRICTLY a source/catalyst of magic. Lyrium can be used to amplify the power of any kind of magic. Lyrium can empower any already existing type of magic. Which would include spells involved in the school of blood magic.

 

There is no "lyrium" magic. Lyrium is only a fuel source/amplifier.

 

Edit: As a Dragon Age example. Let's say you are casting a fireball spell.

 

You are too tired to cast it on your own. So you have three options: 

 

1. Use Lyrium, to find the extra energy.

2. Use blood to find the extra energy. 

3. Use blood and lyrium (though that might be excessive).

 

However, let's say you want to use Blood magic, like, controlling someone's mind. 

 

You need to utilize the power of blood to do this. Without blood, there is no spell in the first place.

 

But you CAN use lyrium to empower your blood magic spell, like any other. 

[KainD]

No. You clearly dont understand.

 

Blood mage wants to break down a door.

 

Blood mage doesnt have the strength to break down the door with his spell, even when augmented with blood. 

 

Blood mage also has lyrium.

 

Blood mage uses a blood magic spell FORTIFIED WITH LYRIUM AND BLOOD MAGIC to break down door.

You clearly don't understand a very simple thing, and I have corrected your original post on multiple occasions for you to see. 

[TheodoricFriede]

Okay, I'm genuinely surprised how many people aren't getting this.

 

There is no "lyrium" magic. Lyrium is only a fuel source/amplifier.

This is what im trying to get across.

[TheodoricFriede]

You clearly don't understand a very simple thing, and I have corrected your original post on multiple occasions for you to see. 

There are certain spells that can ONLY be cast with Blood Magic.

 

Holy Diver, how can you not grasp something so simple?