Technically Bioware sort of did... they brought back 2D portraits, after all.
They also copied and pasted part of BG2 as the Act I to DA2, but they forgot that while people worship BG2, their hypocrisy prevents them from admitting the parts of the game that aren't that good.
The fact that you needed to collect a certain amount of money in both games, has anything to do with BG2 diehards admitting that parts of BG are not that good?
What are you even talking about?
Wow I can't quote here
Wow I did it again, okay I mess up Quoting here it seems so argh. Anyway on the stuff about BG2 and Origins I had to just say this...
The fact that you needed to collect a certain amount of money in both games, has anything to do with BG2 diehards admitting that parts of BG are not that good?
Act I copies BG2's collect 20,000 GP to move forward the plot quest, except that the reaction to DA2's Act I was decidedly negative. There are legitimate criticisms of how DA2 executed Act I vs. BG2, but the majority of complaints surrounding Act I, but the most frequent ones lobbed at Act I apply with equal force to BG2.
Really? Sorry I had to go WTF to that considering in BG you have a set background, you where raised in Candlekeep by Gorion as his ward, and where the Child of Bhaal the God of Murder. In BG 2 you where the same Bhaalspawn from BG 1. In many ways then the Origin system was better because in BG you never had any difference in your upbringing if you where a human or an Elf. Which is odd considering Elves in Toril are not considered adults until around their 120th Birthday so in theory the Elf PC was still a child when they went out in the world.
You're ignoring the powerful force of headcannon when there's 0 in-game content at the start to tell you otherwise. That's how poster can - as AlanC9 pointed out - believe they were kidnapped drow.
You're ignoring the powerful force of headcannon when there's 0 in-game content at the start to tell you otherwise. That's how poster can - as AlanC9 pointed out - believe they were kidnapped drow.
But there is in game content to tell you your origin in Baldur's Gate it's called the Prologue of Baldur's Gate, the only way to miss the characters origin in Baldur's Gate 2 is not to play Baldur's Gate AND to ignore the Dream sequences in Baldur's Gate 2 your still referenced as gorions Ward in BG 2 at times as well as being the Bhaal spawn. Ignoring an entire game to say BG 2 does not give you a set background is well 'WTF' inducing.
But there is in game content to tell you your origin in Baldur's Gate it's called the Prologue of Baldur's Gate, the only way to miss the characters origin in Baldur's Gate 2 is not to play Baldur's Gate AND to ignore the Dream sequences in Baldur's Gate 2 your still referenced as gorions Ward in BG 2 at times as well as being the Bhaal spawn. Ignoring an entire game to say BG 2 does not give you a set background is well 'WTF' inducing.
I have to agree.
You really need to head cannon your way around a lot if want to construe your character as anything but Gorion's Bhaalspawn ward. Certainly not much less than headcanonning some alternative to the Origins in DA:O
Act I copies BG2's collect 20,000 GP to move forward the plot quest, except that the reaction to DA2's Act I was decidedly negative. There are legitimate criticisms of how DA2 executed Act I vs. BG2, but the majority of complaints surrounding Act I, but the most frequent ones lobbed at Act I apply with equal force to BG2.
IIRC you could collect it in anyway you liked, could join different organisations depending on class and alignment, get different allies, in fact pursue basically different plots in the city, dictated by alignment, class and choice. In DA2, you had to do set quests, even after you had the money you had to complete them all, so..yes slightly different (tho tbh my main problems where with core mechanics and later acts)
IIRC you could collect it in anyway you liked, could join different organisations depending on class and alignment, get different allies, in fact pursue basically different plots in the city, dictated by alignment, class and choice. In DA2, you had to do set quests, even after you had the money you had to complete them all, so..yes slightly different (tho tbh my main problems where with core mechanics and later acts)
It may not be the place to get into it, but the screwball narrative structure was my main problem with DA2. Reused maps, "Anders", the changes in combat (though console DAO and DA2 aren't that different) and all are valid, yes, but it's how DA2's story was put together that bothers the hell out of me.
I know everyone and their brother rags on "the Bioware method", but at least it makes sense. Go here, do this, fight this, advance the plot. DA2's like someone threw a bunch of quests into a bin, shook it up, and then let them fall and glued it all together. No progressions make any sense. You have to do completely unrelated quests in order to advance the main storyline, despite having no real reason to do so.
Let's take a look at DAO, shall we?
Origin -> Ostagar -> Lothering -> (Redcliffe, Orzammar, Brecilian Forest, Tower, Denerim) -> Climax.
Now if you're going in Act 1 of DA2:
Lothering -> Kirkwall -> (Make 50 gold) -> * -> Deep Roads.
But..you have to deal with the apostates, Fenyriel, the murderer, and everything else, in order to advance the main plot. Why? Because it says so. You even have to do this twice, because they all crop up again in Act 2. I get that it was rushed and all, but there is no real reason a plot can't at least be coherent.
I'm surprised you don't remember that post about the social reclusive human rogue and how it broke IP that the poster couldn't headcannon away based on what Bioware said.
But..you have to deal with the apostates, Fenyriel, the murderer, and everything else, in order to advance the main plot. Why? Because it says so. You even have to do this twice, because they all crop up again in Act 2. I get that it was rushed and all, but there is no real reason a plot can't at least be coherent.
People trying to equate the gold requirement to move on in BG2 and what was done on DA2, much less the background being set in DA:2 vs you being the BhallSpawn in BG2 are just really, really crazy.
The difference between the gold requirement in BG2 and DA:2 is that BG2 basically opened a world to you at that point. There were so many things to do and to see and various involved quests out there for you to find and complete that the gold requirement was really an afterthought.
In DA:2 you were stuck in the same city running what where for the most part (although with a few exceptions) fetch quests. After a while I just started selling vital equipment to move on, whereas in BG2 I eventually paid the money to continue the main quest not because everything else was so god darned boring.
Being the Bhaalspawn never limited your race, or your class, your name, or even your background necessarily. There were many BhalSpawn everywhere in the world.
In DA2 You weren't just the "Hero of Kirkwall" You were a very specific person - The human, Hawk.
People trying to equate the gold requirement to move on in BG2 and what was done on DA2, much less the background being set in DA:2 vs you being the BhallSpawn in BG2 are just really, really crazy.
The difference between the gold requirement in BG2 and DA:2 is that BG2 basically opened a world to you at that point. There were so many things to do and to see and various involved quests out there for you to find and complete that the gold requirement was really an afterthought.
In DA:2 you were stuck in the same city running what where for the most part (although with a few exceptions) fetch quests. After a while I just started selling vital equipment to move on, whereas in BG2 I eventually paid the money to continue the main quest not because everything else was so god darned boring.
Being the Bhaalspawn never limited your race, or your class, your name, or even your background necessarily. There were many BhalSpawn everywhere in the world.
In DA2 You weren't just the "Hero of Kirkwall" You were a very specific person - The human, Hawk.
The human, Hawke, who belived in Andraste.
So it'd have been preferable if the player could just get to the end of the chapter anytime he wants? This would require some metagaming to avoid shortening your game if one quest leads to the endgame and others don't, wouldn't it? Although I suppose players could just take their chances with game length, and after a couple of runs you'd probably be metagaming quest order anyway.
Well, no. Just better writing. Why am I concerned with this when my goal is to make money? I can make money anywhere - I don't have to help apostates, or some woman and her child, or hunt down a murderer. It's Bioware's job to show me why Major Quest X is necessary to progress Main Quest 1.
Just take DAO's quest design. You need the Arl of Redcliffe, so you have to keep the undead from savaging the town (well, theoretically) in order to free up the path to the castle. You then have to free everyone from the demon's influence, save Connor, and then go find the Urn of Sacred Ashes. Once you do that, you can achieve your main goal - healing the Arl. You can do those quests in a lot of random orders (Going to the Tower first, getting the Ashes before you even go to Redcliffe, and so on) but they all tie in to a defined point. You know why you're doing something and how it ties into the overarching plot as a whole.
DA2 quest design has a bunch of steps, but they're not interconnected whatsoever. They're just gates to lengthen Act progress with a very tenuous tie to the plot as a whole (money). In order to progress The Deep Roads Expedition, you have to do Tranquility (which does make sense, I'll grant that), but you have to do several other quests which have absolutely no tie into any other plot line than the continuations of those plot lines later on.
I never played Baldurs Gate and I don't intend to so I don't care if DA is still considered a spiritual successor to it or not. I play DA on it's own merits and because I like fantasy.
Play Divinity Original Sin, it is awesome.
I'd prefer to think of it as a modern re-imagining (with divinity original sin, Tides of numeria, and pillars of eternity being a more appropriate spiritual successor). Dragon age 2 didn't even meet any those standards but from all angles it seems that Inquisition has the right innards for it.
Just look at super restrictive class system, among other things, and it's only gotten worse since DAO.
DA2 was more restrictive, from all accounts DAI will open it up more.
Well, no. Just better writing. Why am I concerned with this when my goal is to make money? I can make money anywhere - I don't have to help apostates, or some woman and her child, or hunt down a murderer. It's Bioware's job to show me why Major Quest X is necessary to progress Main Quest 1.
The difference between the gold requirement in BG2 and DA:2 is that BG2 basically opened a world to you at that point.
Wait, what? The thing the gold gets you access to is the linear sequence Spellhold-Sahuagin City(maybe)-Underdark. The rest of the game is accessible with or without the gold.
Play Divinity Original Sin, it is awesome.
Been having a ball playing it. Best parts are when you have conversations between the two PCs. Brings a nice mechanic to define the characters we have created.
Well, no. Just better writing. Why am I concerned with this when my goal is to make money? I can make money anywhere - I don't have to help apostates, or some woman and her child, or hunt down a murderer. It's Bioware's job to show me why Major Quest X is necessary to progress Main Quest 1.
Just take DAO's quest design. You need the Arl of Redcliffe, so you have to keep the undead from savaging the town (well, theoretically) in order to free up the path to the castle. You then have to free everyone from the demon's influence, save Connor, and then go find the Urn of Sacred Ashes. Once you do that, you can achieve your main goal - healing the Arl. You can do those quests in a lot of random orders (Going to the Tower first, getting the Ashes before you even go to Redcliffe, and so on) but they all tie in to a defined point. You know why you're doing something and how it ties into the overarching plot as a whole.
DA2 quest design has a bunch of steps, but they're not interconnected whatsoever. They're just gates to lengthen Act progress with a very tenuous tie to the plot as a whole (money). In order to progress The Deep Roads Expedition, you have to do Tranquility (which does make sense, I'll grant that), but you have to do several other quests which have absolutely no tie into any other plot line than the continuations of those plot lines later on.
You're missing out.
Pick up the Enhanced Edition on steam. Definitely will keep you busy until this game comes out. It's a deep fantasy world to get into. A more modern and more lighthearted game along the same vein would be Divinity: Original Sin. Relaly amazing game!
Wait, what? The thing the gold gets you access to is the linear sequence Spellhold-Sahuagin City(maybe)-Underdark. The rest of the game is accessible with or without the gold.
No, I meant that at the point in the game at which you have to gather the gold (when the quest starts, not when it ends) the world opens up to you.
Or at least that's how I remember it... I gotta finish up my replay of BG1 EE and dive into BG2 again!
I recall you had most if not all of the city to explore before this quest, which was such a huge frigging area, at least as big as Baldur's Gate (the city), and then the rest of the map opens up and it was a mind blowing experience! That quest is when it hits you: oh my god, this game is HUGE.
Baldur's Gate was an awesome set of CRPGs. DAO certainly had some similiarities. Inter pary banter and romances and several of the same developers. To call one product a spiritual successor of another is pretty abstract. Like many here, I judge them on their own merits.
In other words, both series are pretty solid on their own merits.
In a world where devs had unlimited time and money, I'd love a BG2 remake with non-isometric gameplay.
In a world where devs had unlimited time and money, I'd love a BG2 remake with non-isometric gameplay.
I'm still hopeful that DA:I will be that game.
Retour en haut