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[bunch1]

All player characters have had extensive combat trainning. The same goes for any companion.

 

And in a one-on-one fight you can be pretty sure that an average City Elf would get destroyed by a Qunari.

I'm not talking about training but pure physical ability.  A city elf warden who uses sword and shild or two handed weapon is engaging the qunari mercenary in a battle of strength as well as skill and the qunari can't win either.  I can accept that they aren't as skilled, it's not like they were raised from birth to be warriors while my city elf was trying to find a job or something, but to be out muscled by someone half their size is just sad.  Likewise saying that Hawk, Fenris, or Avilline are stronger then a hulking qunari just proves the point, they all have less muscle definition then any qunari in DA 2 but still can't overpower them so something is keeping all that muscle from translating into actual success. 

[Maria Caliban]

That Hawke and Co can take down qunari despite their muscle doesn't tell us much. Hawke and Co can take down dragons despite them being huge, flying, and spewing fire.

[bunch1]

That Hawke and Co can take down qunari despite their muscle doesn't tell us much. Hawke and Co can take down dragons despite them being huge, flying, and spewing fire.

They have to try to take down a dragon.  Taking down a squad of qunari, the most feared soldiers on the continent, is just a walk in the park for them.  I must say it is rather pathetic when a noble playboy who doesn't spend his off time preparing for battle, a dwarf merchant who lives in a bar, a pirate lady who practically lives in a bar, and one actual soldier in the guard captain can take down dozens of qunari.

[EmperorSahlertz]

They have to try to take down a dragon.  Taking down a squad of qunari, the most feared soldiers on the continent, is just a walk in the park for them.  I must say it is rather pathetic when a noble playboy who doesn't spend his off time preparing for battle, a dwarf merchant who lives in a bar, a pirate lady who practically lives in a bar, and one actual soldier in the guard captain can take down dozens of qunari.

Hawke is probably one of the most highly skilled warriors in Thedas, Varric is an expert marksman, Isabela is an expert duelist with years of experience as a pirate to boot, and Aveline is a woman-shaped battering ram.

 

I'm not talking about training but pure physical ability.  A city elf warden who uses sword and shild or two handed weapon is engaging the qunari mercenary in a battle of strength as well as skill and the qunari can't win either.  I can accept that they aren't as skilled, it's not like they were raised from birth to be warriors while my city elf was trying to find a job or something, but to be out muscled by someone half their size is just sad.  Likewise saying that Hawk, Fenris, or Avilline are stronger then a hulking qunari just proves the point, they all have less muscle definition then any qunari in DA 2 but still can't overpower them so something is keeping all that muscle from translating into actual success. 

Physically inferior fighters can take physically superior foes. They can even do so easily. If the weaker combatant has better technique and skill, then brute strength may not be enough to compensate.

[bunch1]

 

Hawke is probably one of the most highly skilled warriors in Thedas, Varric is an expert marksman, Isabela is an expert duelist with years of experience as a pirate to boot, and Aveline is a woman-shaped battering ram.

 

Physically inferior fighters can take physically superior foes. They can even do so easily. If the weaker combatant has better technique and skill, then brute strength may not be enough to compensate.

 

While this is all true the fact remains that the Qunari soldiers are literally bred for war.  Form the time they are born they are raised to be soldiers and nothing else and the same can't be said for Hawk or Isabela or Varric or some of the wardens.  The Qunari soldier sole focus in life is preparing his mind and body for battle, a lifetime of physical conditioning, drills, spars and plenty of combat experience fighting the Tevinters and they still get bested by a refugee with barley any training and a couple years experience?  There is something seriously wrong with the mythos that surrounds the Qunari because if we are saying they are bigger, stronger, and raised from birth to be the best soldiers they can be and they still perform to, at best, just above a human bandit who likely doesn't put in anywhere near the effort they are clearly not a real threat outside of their black powder. 

[Feybrad]

Uuuum... Do we take into Account that Player Characters are generally all-out invincible? Immortal? Basically the thedosian Version of Super Heroes?

 

You can never look into that too closely. How did the City Elf Warden ever had a Chance against something like an Ogre? How would ANY Human be able to slay a High Dragon without Magic?

 

Isn't it some kind of golden Rule not to look too closely into these Things?

[Cat Fancy]

Does Sten have claws now? I just looked at some pictures from the comics; it doesn't appear so. Is clawlessness connected to hornlessness, or are they separate things? You know what they say, clawlessness is next to godliness in the eyes of the Qun.

[EmperorSahlertz]

While this is all true the fact remains that the Qunari soldiers are literally bred for war.  Form the time they are born they are raised to be soldiers and nothing else and the same can't be said for Hawk or Isabela or Varric or some of the wardens.  The Qunari soldier sole focus in life is preparing his mind and body for battle, a lifetime of physical conditioning, drills, spars and plenty of combat experience fighting the Tevinters and they still get bested by a refugee with barley any training and a couple years experience?  There is something seriously wrong with the mythos that surrounds the Qunari because if we are saying they are bigger, stronger, and raised from birth to be the best soldiers they can be and they still perform to, at best, just above a human bandit who likely doesn't put in anywhere near the effort they are clearly not a real threat outside of their black powder. 

And again, since this isn't getting through, Hawke and the Warden are player characters, which basically means they are gods walking on earth. Their companions do gain some of that power aswell. That is why they can defeat the likes of Qunari and Dragons, that should scientifically speaking be able to swat them like flies.

 

But the common Thedosian soldier is no match to a Qunari soldier. It is even showcased in DA2 where every Qunari body you come across, that you havn't slain yourself, is surrounded by half a dozen or more Kirkwall guards.

[bunch1]

And again, since this isn't getting through, Hawke and the Warden are player characters, which basically means they are gods walking on earth. Their companions do gain some of that power aswell. That is why they can defeat the likes of Qunari and Dragons, that should scientifically speaking be able to swat them like flies.

 

But the common Thedosian soldier is no match to a Qunari soldier. It is even showcased in DA2 where every Qunari body you come across, that you havn't slain yourself, is surrounded by half a dozen or more Kirkwall guards.

I'm not the one who wanted to bring in game mechanics into this conversation but if you want them you can't just cherry pick the ones that support your case.  The devs wanted Sten fit to fight right out the cage and they wanted a human with little training or experience to carve through the Arishocks own soldiers, the Tal-Vashoth were his before they went rouge, who should be some of the best most experienced soldiers in their army.  It's not just the pc though but all of their companions with varying levels of power, traing, skill, and experience are able to smack down the qunari as easily as if they were just overgrown carta thugs.  And as for the guard we all know they aren't soldiers, their police and not always the most efficient ones at that.  I'm sure if a hundred Somlai militia started rampaging through New York they would leave a huge pile of bodies in their wake, particularly the under equipped and iltrained NYPD but they would still be nothing next to a US Army unit.  When the Templars and Mages show up the fight quickly turns against the Qunari.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I'm not the one who wanted to bring in game mechanics into this conversation but if you want them you can't just cherry pick the ones that support your case.  The devs wanted Sten fit to fight right out the cage and they wanted a human with little training or experience to carve through the Arishocks own soldiers, the Tal-Vashoth were his before they went rouge, who should be some of the best most experienced soldiers in their army.  It's not just the pc though but all of their companions with varying levels of power, traing, skill, and experience are able to smack down the qunari as easily as if they were just overgrown carta thugs.  And as for the guard we all know they aren't soldiers, their police and not always the most efficient ones at that.  I'm sure if a hundred Somlai militia started rampaging through New York they would leave a huge pile of bodies in their wake, particularly the under equipped and iltrained NYPD but they would still be nothing next to a US Army unit.  When the Templars and Mages show up the fight quickly turns against the Qunari.

I havn't used ANY in-game mechanics in my arguemtns, what the hell are you talking about?

 

And again, since you REALLY don't seem to get it, Hawke does not have "just a little" trainning. He has EXTENSIVE trainning and experience as a soldier or amge, since he recieved trainning when he was young from his father. Hawke may actually be one of the most skilled warriors on the face of Thedas. And that is based PURELY on story, not a single in-game mechanic reference.

[Former_Fiend]

Dragon Age has never been particularly good about showing accurate displays of human strength or durability. All the way back to the sacred ashes trailer, they had Leliana leaping higher than is physically possible.

 

In any event, I wasn't a fan of the way they had Hawke, Aveline, and Isabela man-handling the qunari in DA2. To me, it didn't make them look strong, it just made the qunari look weak. 

[bunch1]

I havn't used ANY in-game mechanics in my arguemtns, what the hell are you talking about?

 

And again, since you REALLY don't seem to get it, Hawke does not have "just a little" trainning. He has EXTENSIVE trainning and experience as a soldier or amge, since he recieved trainning when he was young from his father. Hawke may actually be one of the most skilled warriors on the face of Thedas. And that is based PURELY on story, not a single in-game mechanic reference.

1.I'm not talking about mage Hawk who was trained by his apostate father.  I'm talking about a warrior Hawk who was trained by his apostate father who was a mage with almost no actual sword training to begin with not a sword master.  Carvar says that his father basically stopped training him when he was able to knock the sword from his hand because that meant he had nothing more to teach him and he could take care of the house while he was off teaching his mage children and I believe the same would apply if Hawk wasn't a mage.  When he was as competent as a mage with a sword he would be left to protect the house while he was off with Bethany.  Then the blight came and Hawk and Carver joined the army to fight at Ostagar, that call didn't come a year or 6 months before the battle, the Couslands had only just heard of the call and with travel time may have been 2 or 3 weeks at max for the Warden to reach Ostager from the northern coast.  So if the call went out after the fighting started then I'd say that the Hawk siblings were with the army for all of 6 weeks before the game starts.  So no, not a lot of training when compared to a Qunari who has been training their whole life.  As for experience, that is gathered over the game but it is mostly gained fighting bandits, mages, Templars, and darkspwan but are any of these suppose to prepare someone for the most feared soldiers on the continent?  And you have to remember these Qunari are with the Arishock, their war leader, so how many of them do you expect to be greenhorns vs combat veterans from the war with the Imperium. 

 

2.The game mechanic I was refereeing to was the fact that Sten was at full strength the moment he joins the party.  This game was made back in 09 and I do think that the devs just didn't want to waste time and money coming up with a system just for Sten when you pick him up that either gives him a debuff or locks him out for a time to represent his time in the cage, those were resource they could use on something else.

 

But this is getting off the rails.  Over the course of this conversation it's become clear that we can't use either the pc or their companies to gage Quanri because they are overpowered and protected by thick plot armor and that means we can't use Sten at all because he is a companion and thus covered in plot armor that doesn't apply to most Qunari, and with out him all we have are visual observations about the Qunari.  Which is they are taller then humans, have pointed ears, and some of them have horns.

[Former_Fiend]

I suspect we can put that down to gameplay-story segregation.

 

I'd believe that, too, if it wasn't for the fact you can immediately question him about it after letting him out of the cage.

[bunch1]

I'd believe that, too, if it wasn't for the fact you can immediately question him about it after letting him out of the cage.

Sten is a companion character and I was told repeatedly in this thread that we can't use companions or pc's to gauge Qunari abilities because they are overpowered and protected by plot armor and that applies to Sten so I don't know if we can use anything from him, not even his visual appetence is accepted save his hornless head, since Qunari were redesigned for DA 2 making them much larger and stronger looking.  Not my preference but that is the way this thread went which means you can say Sten survived and was fit to fight after weeks of starvation because he is a companion character, you can't make the assumption that most Qunari could do it as well since Sten is a companion and capable of feats that no other Qunari can match.  If you want to look at a companion's feat and use them as proof of abilities you have to accepts all companions and that just opens up a whole new can of worms that will make the Qunari look bad.

 

 

Edit: About the fighting prowess of Hawke--Warrior Hawke was in the army, was he not? For some reason I feel like he/she was actually at Ostagar, though I'm not sure about that.

Hawk and Carver join the King's Army when the Darkspawn hoard is discovered in the wilds and the Army heads to Ostagar.  That allows at most 2 moths, given that the Coulsalnds had just received the call while being a few weeks journey North but Duncan knew of several battles already having taken place, of training and combat experience in addition to the limited training given to them by their mage father in sword play.  When compared to a Qunari soldier who has been raised since infancy to fight, kill, and die for the Qun it is needless to say far less and should have allowed the Qunari to have a decided advantage in battles with the pc's and companions given training, experience, and physical abilities but they don't.  But as stated that has been throw out as well because they are the pc's and companions.

[bunch1]

Sorry, double post

Modifié par bunch1, 22 juillet 2014 - 04:55 .