284 réponses à ce sujet

[Lucky]

I have to off-topic comment on this a bit.

See, the thing about this is that Barbie-dolls (and the way women/girls) are objectified and depicted in popular culture) presents an unrealistic expectation. It is basically what men want women to look like.

Whereas when men are "objectified" and depicted as overly muscular, it is a depiction of what men want to look like.

Basically, both depictions are empowering to men.

Barbie is an ideal of marketing and fashion companies, not the average man...

 

Also, he-man is only an empowering ideal to the sterotype of men as big macho meatheads who solve all their problems by smashing the opposition...

 

Neither one is a healthy stereotype/role model/ideal and neither one is empowering to the better parts of human nature, woman or man.

[Mako]

Asari Valkyrie and Huntress here. They're just powerful, can't say no to them.

[Lucky]

My ideal woman looks nothing like Barbie.

And also, so much dis....

[NuclearTech76]

"They're fools. You should eat them."

 

Some of the best players I've played with are women. Take Dragon Racer (no, really, take her! I'm just jealous of her Hurricane X), she's usually maining a Turian Sentinel and doing it very effin' well. That's just one example. 

True. Some of the better players I know are women and generally they seem to never cause any drama (which is odd considering the women I work with are completely the opposite, so gamer grillz rule). 

[sabreracer]

sry, i'm bit late....

hmm...man this pic is ooooooold, what kit was i playing anyway?

 

regardless of the kit i guess i'm on the way to Uzur

 

OT:

everybody should play what she/he likes.

 

i've seen many girls play GI and all of them were ridiculously good   (i may skip the names)

 

It was probably late last year and I think you may have been Asari something too.  I think I went to do a shifty Volus revive but a Marauder and two Banshees hanging around may have required Cobra from the Pink Princess  .

[q5tyhj]

 

Some of the best players I've played with are women. Take Dragon Racer 

Or HurryHarriet (who's also posted to this thread), who is among the best players I've ever played with. Ass-whooping ability on mass effect has absolutely zero correlation with one's gender, in my experience. 

[DemiserofD]

Well, the odd thing is, no women seem to have any idea of what an empowered woman actually DOES look like. It apparently isn't a slender woman with big boobs, but I'd wager most wouldn't say a woman as muscular as He-Man would be considered to be empowered, either. Just based on my past experience, I'd say most would call that attempting to emulate men, which is further empowering(as usual) to men.

 

Then you have the hippy stereotype, with the woman not shaving herself or using hair products, but that's not exactly right either! If they leave their hair long, they're conforming to traditional male views of gender physical differences, but if they cut it they're emulating men and further empowering them.

 

And at last, you have average looking women...but you're not going to make the protagonist of a series average looking, it's just going to guarantee a marketing disaster.

 

No matter what you do as a woman, you're screwed. You can ALWAYS be defined by contrast of comparison to men.

[NuclearTech76]

Well, the odd thing is, no women seem to have any idea of what an empowered woman actually DOES look like. It apparently isn't a slender woman with big boobs, but I'd wager most wouldn't say a woman as muscular as He-Man would be considered to be empowered, either. Just based on my past experience, I'd say most would call that attempting to emulate men, which is further empowering(as usual) to men.

 

Then you have the hippy stereotype, with the woman not shaving herself or using hair products, but that's not exactly right either! If they leave their hair long, they're conforming to traditional male views of gender physical differences, but if they cut it they're emulating men and further empowering them.

 

And at last, you have average looking women...but you're not going to make the protagonist of a series average looking, it's just going to guarantee a marketing disaster.

 

No matter what you do as a woman, you're screwed. You can ALWAYS be defined by contrast of comparison to men.

A confident, intelligent woman doesn't need to emulate anyone, IMHO. I've known guys and girls that just have that personality that makes everyone gravitate toward them and their opinions; they don't have to fake it etc. Not talking about looks or anything like that.

[DemiserofD]

A confident, intelligent woman doesn't need to emulate anyone, IMHO. I've known guys and girls that just have that personality that makes everyone gravitate toward them and their opinions; they don't have to fake it etc. Not talking about looks or anything like that.

 

See, this I can agree with. But if this is the case, why are feminists criticizing a doll based on appearance when many of them admit that appearance has little to nothing to do with actual empowerment?

[mrs_anomaly]

See, this I can agree with. But if this is the case, why are feminists criticizing a doll based on appearance when many of them admit that appearance has little to nothing to do with actual empowerment?

 

Please note the disclaimer at the end of my comment:

 

They disagree with it because it's an item meant to be a toy for young girls. Young girls will play with this item and possibly come to the conclusion that they too should look like a Barbie in order to be the ideal woman. Also these girls will think Barbie = the ideal woman. They internalize Barbie proportions as being achievable and that somehow they can make themselves into Barbies. Barbie proportions if scaled for a normal human are pretty monstrous and warped. 

 

My disclaimer: 

 

I do not think all of the above. But you see- I've read a ton of books about feminism and humanism and welp I grew up with Barbies and computers and video games and I never once thought I should look like a Barbie or be a Barbie. 

[Lucky]

See, this I can agree with. But if this is the case, why are feminists criticizing a doll based on appearance when many of them admit that appearance has little to nothing to do with actual empowerment?

Well that's the problem with 'feminism' isn't it. It makes one view the problem of inequality in an us vs them framework.

 

Any civil rights movement that makes itself and its mission based on the betterment of conditions for/empowerment of one group; while at the same time distancing itself from those who are not a part of its in-group is inherently flawed.

 

The problem shouldn't be framed as feminism vs misogyny, it should be about equality of the sexes vs bigotry between them.

 

Until everyone is equal no one is equal.

[NuclearTech76]

Well that's the problem with 'feminism' isn't it. It makes one view the problem of inequality in an us vs them framework.

 

Any civil rights movement that makes itself and its mission based on the betterment of conditions for/empowerment of one group; while at the same time distancing itself from those who are not a part of its in-group is inherently flawed.

 

The problem shouldn't be framed as feminism vs misogyny, it should be about equality of the sexes vs bigotry between them.

 

Until everyone is equal no one is equal.

We're stepping dangerously close to a very touchy subject but in life there simply can be no equality. Empowering one side generally weakens the other. 

[Lucky]

We're stepping dangerously close to a very touchy subject but in life there simply can be no equality. Empowering one side generally weakens the other. 

Yes, if the sides consider themselves separate from each other, then that is true. If everyone considers everyone else to be part of one inclusive group then no, it is not.

 

Edit: also, this is partly semantics, possessed of equal human rights and dignity =/= exactly the same in all respects.

 

IF you use the latter definition of 'equality' then of course it can't exist between people, but the former certainly can...

[NuclearTech76]

Yes, if the sides consider themselves separate from each other, then that is true. If everyone considers everyone else to be part of one inclusive group then no, it is not.

I used to believe that but it's just not true. All things are never equal from the beginning based on socioeconomic conditions, various other things that are conditioned into us during our early years IE gender roles, etc. There's just too many different factors for everything to be fair, hell you just do the best you can and hope that's enough. 

[Lucky]

Well, as I said in my edit semantics becomes a big problem here. Equal doesn't necessarily mean identical/the same in all respects.

[David Diablo]

It would be nice if everyone was treated equally and judged by their character and the way they go about themselves in life, but that's just not going to happen. It's a utopia... For the record, I've never had a problem with for example, barbie dolls creating "unrealistic" expectations of beauty or adverts showing models (male or female) looking perfect in their airbrushed glory is "unrealistic" expectation of beauty. Because the hard, cold truth is, that there are men and women who are genuinely really beautiful out there and just because 99% of the population aren't as good looking (or nowhere near as), doesn't make it "unrealistic".

 

I'll never be as smart as Steven Hawking, I'll never be as good looking as Brad Pitt and I'll never be as athletic as Cristiano Ronaldo, but you know what, I couldn't care less. People just need to get over themselves and accept their place in life. I'm happy with who I am and I feel that other than when a minority group is genuinely being marginalised (like women not being paid as much as men for doing the same job), if you're gonna complain about things like barbie dolls or whatever, it probably says more about your own self-esteem issues than anything genuinely meaningful...

 

I know I'll probably get destroyed for this, but whatever...

[Deerber]

What strikes me, is that people are really so hell bent on comparing the two sexes, instead of learning and accepting the differences as a gift from above, whatever you believe is up there. I mean really... It's 2014 people.

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

It's cute watching you all try to work out gender theory from scratch on the basis of a remark made on a gaming platform.

 

If you take requests, could you all do quantum particle physics next?

[Lucky]

It's cute watching you all try to work out gender theory from scratch on the basis of a remark made on a gaming platform.

 

If you take requests, could you all do quantum particle physics next?

Self centered much?

 

It's cute how you think your post started this discussion, I know I never read it. Pretty sure it started with the OP's post, considering gender theory/prejudice has been the topic since the thread began...

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

Self centered much?

 

Dumber than a sack of hammers much?

 

Reading comprehension fail much?

 

Inadequate grammar skills much?

 

(Tick all that apply.)

 

...oh look, this post has turned into another BSN survey....

 

[Lucky]

Miss the point much?

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

 

It's cute how you think your post started this discussion, I know I never read it. Pretty sure it started with the OP's post, considering gender theory/prejudice has been the topic since the thread began...

 

OBTW, I need the contact for your dealer. That's some powerful smack.

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

Dumber than a sack of hammers much?
 
Reading comprehension fail much?
 
Inadequate grammar skills much?
 
(Tick all that apply.)
 
...oh look, this post has turned into another BSN survey....
 

Fuck off much?

[smeckie]

Fuck off much?

QFT

[CrimsonN7]

Hi

 

The background to the silly title is a peculiar exchange I had with a player a couple of days ago. It started when he asked me what a girl like me was doing playing the Juggernaut and why I wasn't playing with my Barbies instead. I asked him what he meant by 'barbies' and in his opinion, girls only play Asari and Furies on ME3. I told him that I often play the turian kits as well and then he replied by saying that turians and geth are boys' toys. I felt a bit offended so I left the conversation at that point.

 

Then I started thinking about it, the few female gamers I've come across on ME3 have indeed played Asari or Furies. I know of only two cases where I've seen them play Juggernauts (one was pink by the way) and only one TGI that I can remember. I don't think I've ever seen a female GI player either.

 

Granted, avatars and GTs can be deceiving but perhaps there's some truth to this? Do female gamers prefer certain kits or am I the golden exception that confirms the fact, as we say in my language?

 

Yunno all this time you are spending on trying to match outfits for your character OP, is valuable time you could be using to make me a sammich. Chop chop sweetie, hold the mustard.