There are many societal reasons as to why mages aren't the majority.
And those "societal reasons" vanish once you get to Tevinter, where magic is seen as a blessing and mage births are celebrated and encouraged. Why aren't they the majority in the Imperium?
There are many societal reasons as to why mages aren't the majority.
actually yes...Tevinter have dynastys of only mages...many of them die and majority of mages in modern Tevinter is laetans not a altus
many mages was die because of many things what happen for the last thousands years especially because of blights and exalted marshes
and because of Orlais Chantry mages are not common in south because of their Chantry cirlce what hunt and ban inprison mages to have childrens because they wanted to get rid of them..and they have 20 genocides of their Chantry Cirlces not mention that many of childrens does not survive in Chanry Cirlce to become a enchanter
Unfortunately, your understanding of evolution is off as well - evolution is mutations. Specifically, favorable mutations that increased your chances of reproducing. If being a mage gave you a significant leg-up over non-mages (assuming it's completely genetic and inheritable), then it would express itself as mages outlasting and outbreeding non-mages the majority of the time, to the point where people who have a higher chance of producing mages are selected for. Eventually, you'd expect the ratio of mages to non-mages to shift in favor of mage offspring. This is not the case however, so obviously being a mage isn't particularly advantageous, and thus, not a likely contender for evolutionary superiority.
Another thing that occurred to me just now: multiple races (as in, multiple species) can become mages. It isn't limited to just humans. This seems to support the "the primary influencing factor is magic itself" theory, as it's something that connects people across species.
I know evolution is mutation. Or rather mutation is the process along which evolution works. But to call blue eyed persons evolutions of humans is moronic. Blue eyes is a mutation in the human race, which probably served some sort of function (I am not certain which), which proved useful enough to persist to this day. Just because it is a mutation does not mean it is the enxt stage in evolution.
So far mages have proven themselves to NOT have a major advantage in survival than normal human beings. Quite the contrary even, since a mage has all the natural enemies of the humans in ADDITION to having to contend with the Demons.
But all of this is a moot point since, as I said, mages are NOT an evolution of humankind..
You seem to think I'm agreeing with Ecreip Rellim. I am not. I just noticed that your conception of evolution had some flaws in it as well, or at least, the way you typed it. If you look at my previous posts, you'll see that I'm not disputing you beyond that.
Not sure we should be applying scientific principles to a fantasy RPG, but if you want to take an evolutionary perspective, perhaps magic was an evolutionary response to certain humans being vulnerable to demon possession. It's a chicken or egg debate.
Of course we shouldn't. Yet some people will cling to what they know and (claim) to understand, and try to force what is true in our world, to be be true in a fictional world.
So far there is nothing that indicates that magic is conencted to genes at all. Magic is however magical in nature (Duh!), and thus unknowable to us. Why someone are born with magic and others aren't? There is no answer, they just are. It is magic.
So far there is nothing that indicates that magic is conencted to genes at all. Magic is however magical in nature (Duh!), and thus unknowable to us. Why someone are born with magic and others aren't? There is no answer, they just are. It is magic.
Also, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure magic is genetic. There's the standard Chantry nonsense about mage-tainted bloodlines, but more importantly, there's the fact that Tevinter has bred mages since forever.
It could all just be superstition, but it seems clear to me that some bloodlines are more prone to producing mages than others.
Tevinter has ATTEMPTED to breed mages, but it doesn't work like that. Magic may have, for lack of a better description, "chosen" to touch certain bloodlines. The Amell family for instance appears to have an affinity for magic, but it is NOT genetic.
Tevinter has ATTEMPTED to breed mages, but it doesn't work like that. Magic may have, for lack of a better description, "chosen" to touch certain bloodlines. The Amell family for instance appears to have an affinity for magic, but it is NOT genetic.
How do you call it when people born from mages are more likely to be mages? When some families end up having more mages than others? When long dynasties of mages have existed for centuries?
However, I agree that it's probably not 'genetic' in the way we understand. So far, it's a strange mutation, like Marvel mutant superpowers and Harry Potter magic. Including mutant/mages being born in normal families, and 'non mutants/muggles' being born in mutant/mage families.
Tevinter has ATTEMPTED to breed mages, but it doesn't work like that. Magic may have, for lack of a better description, "chosen" to touch certain bloodlines. The Amell family for instance appears to have an affinity for magic, but it is NOT genetic.
How can you be so sure? I agree that a mystical component is a given, but how can you, by your own admittance, say that some bloodlines are more likely to produce mages, and yet assert so strongly that it is absolutely not genetic?
It is genetic, Hawke's own mother even mentions it and her marrying Malcome brought more magic into the bloodline thus "tainting" it even more so in the eyes of the nobility. Her family also has a history of producing Mages.
How do you call it when people born from mages are more likely to be mages? When some families end up having more mages than others? When long dynasties of mages have existed for centuries?
However, I agree that it's probably not 'genetic' in the way we understand. So far, it's a strange mutation, like Marvel mutant superpowers and Harry Potter magic. Including mutant/mages being born in normal families, and 'non mutants/muggles' being born in mutant/mage families.
How can you be so sure? I agree that a mystical component is a given, but how can you, by your own admittance, say that some bloodlines are more likely to produce mages, and yet assert so strongly that it is absolutely not genetic?
Because if it actually was genetic then EVERY child born to a mage couple would be a mage too. However as it is, that is not case.
The gene that enables Magic most likely isn't active in most of the population for whatever reason. Heck, Elves are naturally gifted in magic yet only a very few of them can actually use magic.
And those "societal reasons" vanish once you get to Tevinter, where magic is seen as a blessing and mage births are celebrated and encouraged. Why aren't they the majority in the Imperium?
Well they only really breed mages with mages so there is little chance at spreading the genes about in Tervinter. There is also the timescale to think about, just because mages aren't the majority does not mean they couldn't be.
There doesn't seem to be a survival benefit to either though other than the fact that mages are generally in more danger and the way they are treated.
Because if it actually was genetic then EVERY child born to a mage couple would be a mage too. However as it is, that is not case.
Not necessarily.
Because if it actually was genetic then EVERY child born to a mage couple would be a mage too. However as it is, that is not case.
By that logic, all children born to parents who share an inherited genetic disorder must also be afflicted with that disorder.
Well they only really breed mages with mages so there is little chance at spreading the genes about in Tervinter. There is also the timescale to think about, just because mages aren't the majority does not mean they couldn't be.
There doesn't seem to be a survival benefit to either though other than the fact that mages are generally in more danger and the way they are treated.
Correct, which is why eugenics doesn't work.
As I said though, I do not believe it is genetic but I think it is informed by whatever the DA version of genetics is. I doubt we will ever learn the cause of it or how it works exactly though.
I doubt we will ever learn the cause of it or how it works exactly though.
Probably not.
Because if it actually was genetic then EVERY child born to a mage couple would be a mage too. However as it is, that is not case.
That's not how genetics work. Please, take a look at Mendelian inheritance:
http://en.wikipedia....ian_inheritance
Recessive alleles may be masked by dominant alleles. And every individual has a pair of alleles for each particular trait.
Let's suppose that magic comes from just one trait. Highly unlikely, but let's assume it for the sake of this mental exercise. To put things more in the mages' favour, let's also assume that magic is dominant. Well, if both parents have a pair of magic alleles, then their children will have too. However, if the parents have recessive alleles masked by dominant magic alleles, their children have a 25% chance of being born muggles.
And that is in the best case scenario. Magic alleles could be recessive instead of dominant, or you could need a certain combination of genes to produce magical offspring. So yeah, magic could depend on genetics easily. What it doesn't explain is the 'mutation', that is, that people with no mage ancestor can be born as mages. And a very specific mutation, indeed. Unless a certain interpretation of Sandal's prophecy is true and everybody was a mage in the past (hey, it could be genetics too: maybe the Maker switched the mage alleles from 'dominant' to 'recessive' all over the world).
What it doesn't explain is the 'mutation', that is, that people with no mage ancestor can be born as mages. And a very specific mutation, indeed. Unless a certain interpretation of Sandal's prophecy is true and everybody was a mage in the past (hey, it could be genetics too: maybe the Maker switched the mage alleles from 'dominant' to 'recessive' all over the world).
This is why I think there's more at work than just genetics, but it seems odd to deny that some form of inheritance mechanism is at play when there's good evidence that there is.
I don't think magic is genetic but more likely that there is a gene that allows for a person to be more predisposed to becoming a mage but there is another factor in it as well I think. No idea on what it is but there is likely one I think.
By that logic, all children born to parents who share an inherited genetic disorder must also be afflicted with that disorder.
If the gene was dominant then if a single parent carried it, there would be a 50/50 chance of the gene being passed along to the child. If both parents had it, it would be passed along for certain. Now, since we KNOW that two mage parents does not neccesarily have a mage child, that means the mage gene is certainly not dominant.
Could it be recessive? Probably. But then the mere notion of attempting to breed it, let alone calling mages a race of their own or an evolution, is ludicrous. Simply put trying to put a scientific explanation to a happening of magical nature is stupid. Unless you feel like explaining why an alternate protein sequencing allows you to send your consciousness into an alternate dimension battling demons.
Actually, I did say that it was probably recessive. What I didn't say was that mages are an entirely different race or the next stage of evolution. I also said that there's undoubtedly more to it than just genetics, and all in all, it's likely very complex.
There is a commonly held belief among the Dalish that all elves were once capable of magic. Now this may be true or it may be that it was just the noble cast of elves, just as all Keepers are mages but the children of Keepers do not always inherit the gift. So imagine a higher cast which is only open to mages but the lower cast also have the gene but it is not always expressed. Just as you can inherit a pre-disposition to arthritis or mental illness but it takes a certain set of conditions before it shows itself. If these conditions never arise, it may never show itself but you can still pass it on.
Then the non-mage elves intermarry with humans. The children are always humans but now carry the gene for magic. If it is truly a recessive gene then it could go several generations before two people carrying it marry but then there is a chance their offspring will show magic.
Then same is also true for the Tevinter Imperium. People with magic ability are always considered superior to those who do not. Therefore non-mages born into mage families will be demoted down the social scale. Eventually they marry someone with a similar background. The recessive gene comes back to the fore and they have magic in the family again.
We understand genes but the people of Thedas do not. They just see families with no immediate mage background suddenly producing mages. In the case of the Hawke family if Leandra was carrying a recessive and Malcolm carrying two recessives, it would explain why some children are mages and some are not. However, Carver would still have at least one recessive gene for magic and so could marry a non-mage and still produce mage children because his partner was also a carrier.
This is why it would be a near impossible task to eradicate magic altogether by preventing mages from breeding.
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