Dalish clans are tribal societies. They're system is in no way applicable to larger, more complex structures.
They also rely heavily on tradition, which is... not good.
The Dalish are the remnants of an independent kingdom, and exist as nomadic tribes to maintain their culture and religion. And I don't see the issue with their traditions - they respect magic while still being willing to strike down an abomination.
<looks around>
I wonder where TKS is? Seems like a mage/templar debate is incomplete without his creative and interesting views on the subject.
Short-sigthedness, greed, stupidity. Take your pick.
I forgot one.
Blood magic.
Actually, that seems sensible enough so far.
Your commitment to the opression of non-mages has been noted.
The Dalish are the remnants of an independent kingdom, and exist as nomadic tribes to maintain their culture and religion. And I don't see the issue with their traditions - they respect magic while still being willing to strike down an abomination.
Doesn't matter what they used to be. Jews used to be a kingdom, now they're just an ethnicity. Dalish used to be a kingdom too, now they are tribal nomads. The social and political structure of an entire nation still is drastically different from that of a tribe of a few dozen people.
And there's nothing wrong with their traditions, is the fact that they're traditionalists that is the problem. It's not good for progress when all you can do is to continue digging up stuff from your past.
Mage children must be sent to Circles or whatever mage academy substitute, but are set free around 21 years of age. Templars will be staged throughout cities and settlements to keep troublemakers in check.
This seems like an ethical, effective, and fair compromise. It allows almost complete freedom while still maintaining public safety. Any further demands for "freedom" would be simply unreasonable.
If the hahren have authority, why didn't the hahren of Merrill's clan countermand Meredith's orders and had the clan move? Why were there hahrens abandoning the clan?
You mean Marethari? It doesn't seem that most of the hahren countermanded Marethari's decision. And you're addressing one single hahren saying he was going to leave with his apprentices, but we don't even know if he took the issue up with the Keeper or not, or if the other hahren supported the Keeper's decision. It's simply not addressed.
It seems more accurate to say that hahrens have as much power as the Keeper allows them to have.
If that was the case, I doubt they could officially prohibit a Keeper from being with someone he was in love with, to the point where they had to meet in secret.
Your commitment to the opression of non-mages has been noted.
When the philosophical infrastructure for democracy rolls around, I'll get right on advocating for that.
I don't think most people comprehend that the reason mages aren't visited more often by their family, is because that the distances are often insurmountable for either part to make the travel. Nor do I think that most people comprehend that most Thedosians do not have access to a reliable post office, so mail might not even arrive either.
I don't really see the hands of the chantry that could use them as artillery as different from the hands of nobles who could use them for artillery. If they get made to fight on behalf of a religion they may not believe in that's not really better or less likely than being made to fight for their nations nobles.I firmly disagree on this point. The Chantry is the only multinational organization with enough influence and legitimacy to control the inherent dangers of magic while keeping it away from the hands of nobles that would use mages as artillary.
If you know of any other multinational organization with acess to wealth, armies and the minds of nearly every single human in the continent, I'm all hears. Otherwise, I say we keep the Chantry.
And honestly I can't see any solution that's anywhere near perfect or favorable.
Perfect is a non-functional standard when it comes to people. For anything. You can't design an etiquette that will somehow perfectly prevent people from being rude to each other. You can't design a social system that will somehow prevent people from becoming criminals. And there's no way to create a system that will somehow make mages only use their powers for good while preventing other people from shitting on them. It's impossible. People have free will. You can't MAKE them be like ANYTHING.
The way you measure a system built around people and free will is not its "perfection" but whether or not it is RIGHT. The way you determine whether a system is right or not is by figuring out--does it allow the people within it (ALL the people within it) to take the actions that enable them to continue to survive and thrive as human beings. If the system does that, it's a right system. It's a rights-respecting system. If some people within the system decide to be colossal asshats with their free will, oh well, that's going to happen in ANY system. But you can at least know that you didn't destroy the lives and happiness of people who never hurt anyone in an attempt to achieve a goal that literally cannot be achieved.
I don't think most people comprehend that the reason mages aren't visited more often by their family, is because that the distances are often insurmountable for either part to make the travel. Nor do I think that most people comprehend that most Thedosians do not have access to a reliable post office, so mail might not even arrive either.
How fortunate that I have a solution for that: Circle towns that mundane family members can move to to stay near their relatives.
I also don't see why there needs to be a multinational organization instead of letting each nation deal with their own Mage citizens.
Because, people being what they are, at least some of them would use them for war.
Doesn't matter what they used to be. Jews used to be a kingdom, now they're just an ethnicity. Dalish used to be a kingdom too, now they are tribal nomads. The social and political structure of an entire nation still is drastically different from that of a tribe of a few dozen people.
There are differences, but the fact remains the clans are the remnants of a kingdom where mages weren't controlled by templars and were even among the nobility who governed the nation, and it didn't fall to abominations.
And there's nothing wrong with their traditions, is the fact that they're traditionalists that is the problem. It's not good for progress when all you can do is to continue digging up stuff from your past.
Their way of life is a matter of survival, and they have to keep moving to avoid hostile outsiders who threaten the members of the clan. Unless an independent kingdom for the Dalish is one of the potential paths the Inquisitor can pursue, that isn't likely to change.
How fortunate that I have a solution for that: Circle towns that mundane family members can move to to stay near their relatives.
So you want to forcibly uproot people from their livlihood and reestablish a life, in your pesuedo town designed for this purpose? And exactly who will pay for the safe travel and moving of the family? What if they don't wish to move? You are just focing the entire families to give up their previous lives instead of a single member... Not the best solution.
So you want to forcibly uproot people from their livlihood and reestablish a life, in your pesuedo town designed for this purpose? And exactly who will pay for the safe travel and moving of the family? What if they don't wish to move? You are just focing the entire families to give up their previous lives instead of a single member... Not the best solution.
Forcibly? No, it's voluntary.
The Dalish consider magic a gift of the Creators, so they have a completely opposing view to magic and mages than Andrastians do.
All three Dalish clans we've met can be completely wiped out or are completely wiped out. In every case it is a Dalish mages fault to some extent, and a Dalish practitioner of blood magic and a spirit/demon are involved.
I'd say that from what we've seen they are the absolute worst example of a functioning mage system in Thedas.
Forcibly? No, it's voluntary.
So no one will pay for it. Ergo no one will do it. Ergo the village will fail.
All three Dalish clans we've met can be completely wiped out or are completely wiped out. In every case it is a Dalish mages fault to some extent, and a Dalish practitioner of blood magic and a spirit/demon are involved.
I'd say that from what we've seen they are the absolute worst example of a functioning mage system in Thedas.
I'm sure it was the humans' fault.
Because, people being what they are, at least some of them would use them for war.
All three Dalish clans we've met can be completely wiped out or are completely wiped out. In every case it is a Dalish mages fault to some extent, and blood magic is involved.
I'd say that from what we've seen they are the absolute worst example of a functioning mage system in Thedas.
The same thing is true of 100% of the Circles we've seen. I think this is more indicative of the fact that we wouldn't be going to that specific location if there wasn't some kind of drama going on. You could equally say that none of the villages we saw in Origins were functioning villages because they were all destroyed.
So no one will pay for it. Ergo no one will do it. Ergo the village will fail.
I didn't say that. I think the Chantry could pay for it.
I'm sure it was the humans' fault.
In the case of Zathrian's, yes, thanks to the aggression of the humans-turned-werewolves. For the other two, it was a demon's fault (though a human released the demon in the case of TME).
All three Dalish clans we've met can be completely wiped out or are completely wiped out. In every case it is a Dalish mages fault to some extent, and blood magic is involved.
I'd say that from what we've seen they are the absolute worst example of a functioning mage system in Thedas.
The Warden can convince the werewolves to slaughter Zathrian's clan, or the Champion can kill the Sabrae Clan. It's also possible for The Warden to convince Zathrian he's wrong and put an end to the curse (which leaves the clan in the capable hands of Lanaya), or for the Champion to leave Sundermount without eliminating the entire clan (which leaves the clan in the hands of Marethari's new First).
Also, Velanna was an exile, and the small group who accompanied her weren't the entirety of the clan; we even meet some of the clan as they are passing through Amaranthine.
I didn't say that. I think the Chantry could pay for it.
In the case of Zathrian's, yes, thanks to the aggression of the humans-turned-werewolves. For the other two, it was a demon's fault (though a human released the demon in the case of TME).
Why on earth would the Chantry pay for that? What would they gain? Nothing. So that is not going to happen.
And yeah, the humans 150 years later was surely to blame for what happened to Zathrian I am sure of it. I mean how dare they be born, right?
Why on earth would the Chantry pay for that? What would they gain? Nothing. So that is not going to happen.
And yeah, the humans 150 years later was surely to blame for what happened to Zathrian I am sure of it. I mean how dare they be born, right?
Economic boons from the village?
And I didn't say what happened to Zathrian, I said wiping out the clan. Zathrian's clan is guiltless in this matter.
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