537 réponses à ce sujet

[Inprea]

just noticed...

All this tells me in relation to my original point is that mages can consistently bring demons over into Thedas and weaken the veil while the number or types of deaths needed to do the same is dubious.

But if we're in the train of thought that an orphanage full of kids is all that's needed to weaken the veil, then lulz. If all it took was that then Thedas' collective Veil should've been torn to shreds thousands years ago.

From what's shown of the orphanage that's all it does take. Though if it was easy for a mage to call upon a demon I question why every scared child locked in a barn with a mob outside of it didn't turn into an abomination or the ones that didn't want to go to the circle. Children don't do a very good job of planning for the future after all. 

[Daerog]

Probably due to demons not having a census on all the mages in Thedas and a GPS on all of them. Some don't know how to cross the Veil or possess, and some just end up getting hopelessly lost and become shades.

 

Meredith's sister is an unfortunate example of what can happen. Wynne's childhood is an example of probably what usually happens.

[Eveangaline]

This is cool and all but my original point is that in comparison to the Chantry, the nations of Thedas will have little to no restraint when using the mages abilities against their neighbors.

 

I don't think they'll have any less restraint than the chantry does. Mages aren't going to want to fight in every war and lords aren't more likely to push them to than the chantry, I mean a lord isn't going to want to risk having a war and a mage rebellion to deal with at the same time.

 

Make a marginally autonomous circle that has regulations and rules set by the country they are in, not a foreign religious power a mage may not even be a follower of. I don't think the chantry is morally above the lords or less likely to use mages for their own gains. I think that when the circle was founded the chant was trying to do right by mages, but unfortunately their involvement is ultimately detrimental to whatever final arrangement will work best. A citizen in the free marches born with magic who may not even be andrastian is not the business of a religion based in orlais. They are the business of the free marches and the magic having citizens should work out their fate with their homeland.

[MrMrPendragon]

Option Z: Magi Genophage.

 

Created by Qunari-Dwarven hybrid to make the creativity and knack for invention 5 times greater (Elves have magic, and human can't invent sh*t).

 

Lessen the mage population to pre-industrial growth levels. Use the circle towers to spread the cure by dispersing particles through spells that fixes Thedas' atmosphere and "fade tear in the sky" problem

 

Then to top it all off, hide explosives in the deep roads under Tevinter so you can blow up the country just in case the mages revolt again.

[KainD]

Aww, BOO! Miri loved Oriana, and that's good enough for me.

 

Don't tell me you haven't watched firefly! PLANET Miranda. 

[Dabrikishaw]

Option A. The circles were the only thing that worked.

[KainD]

Option A. The circles were the only thing that worked.

 

This war is the direct result of how the circles worked. 

[Eveangaline]

They made the religion illegal because it was openly hostile to humans and caused the Dalish kingdom to become isolationist and threatening to their subjects (Andrastian humans). It's self defense, the same reason they fight against and condemn the Qunari. In contrast to the heathan faiths of the Old Gods, abd the Avvars gods and the like, which were faiths they left alone to slowly die out.

And the chant makes people hostile to places with other religions. Outlawing a religion is not understandable. And I don't consider it self defense when the Dalish have nowhere near the people or power to try and attack them now bu they're still forbidding the worship of the elven gods.

[The Baconer]

And perhaps, Loyalist mages might be allowed to join the Seekers, to better promote cooperation between all three groups.

 

Yes, Seekers should definitely be recruiting mages. I can't agree with the "loyalist mage" specification because I think the fraternities as they are should be dissolved. Aside from perhaps the Lucrosians, who can just be rolled into a new department of the Circle.

[Nukekitten]

Hmm. Wool gathering time -

Segregation has rarely gone well. If the group has any serious power people fear and hate them, if they don't then they're abused - not that they're not in the first case. And on their side doubtless there's a certain degree of fear going on.

On the mundane's side mages are feared and hated as something with power and the potential to abuse it, that no-one knows very much about. In technological terms, people are generally ignorant of magic; and in social terms, they don't see them so they can't trust them.

On the mage's side, there's little investment in society, you put them in circles, that goes rapidly to zero. All we stand to lose are our chains. And there's a similar fear of the templars.

Mages need a way to make a living that ties them to the health of their society. And on saying that I realise how dangerous it really is for them not to have one - 'The devil makes work for idle hands.'

I think healing would be a good call for it. They can perform feats that even with our technology, which Thedas is centuries from reaching if it ever will, can't be duplicated. It's a little difficult to hate the fellow that healed your kid's broken leg like that. Look at what happened with Low Town, they protected Anders because he was useful to them.

What other trades can they learn? Enchanting isn't a uniquely mage skill but may be interesting for some of them. But so much of magic seems innately militarised, and if that's all you can do (maybe medicine bores you) .... What's the civilian application of a fireball? Or a paralysis glyph?

... Well, the paralysis glyph they'd probably make awesome town guards.

They can control the elements. That's got to be useful to farmers. And what about dealing with forest fires and the like? Some awesome firemen going under-utilised there.

Construction? I don't know how hot they can get their fires or how sharp they can make concussive blasts though.

But you get the general theme: At the moment mages are heavily segregated, they have no investment in society and no real relation to it that's not one of pain and fear. And what did we see them being taught in the circle? Combat oriented spells ¬_¬ What could possibly go wrong?

#

I'm inclined to pay the costs up front. Find civilian applications for their skills, dissolve the circles, spread the mages out as far as you can.

Where will they live?

In houses, like anyone else.

What if one of them goes nuts?

The others, who have an investment in the continuation of a stable society, and families and relatives and friends in that society, will stop them. If you live there you probably don't much care for it becoming an abomination infested hell-hole.

What happens to the Templars?

Have them join the police. Heck, form a police branch. Their specialisation will diminish in line with decreases in concentrations of mages, and their policing should become saner as things settle down.

But there'll still be persecution and hatred!

Yes, for a couple of generations at least. It's a cultural problem and cultures change relatively slowly unless you're prepared to kill everyone who disagrees with you.

What if they take over the government?

When it come to politics, magic shouldn't make you that much more powerful than your opponents. If it did, the mages would have won by now:

"Go to your circle!"
"Okay! Just let me get this mind-wipe into the head templar there and... Ah! All done =) Yeah, I'll go there."

#

One downside - other than that a fair number of people would die in the time it took society to normalise - is it's entirely possible that there's not the political will to force such a solution.

[Allazor]

I just read the whole thread and wanted to add my own perspective. What i think Chantry did that was good:

-demilitarization

-independence from local powers

-self-sufficient Circles ( the tranquil sell the wears crafted by mages and offer enchanting services , all prospects go to the Circle )

-harrowing ( the ultimate test of a true mage , after that if you are not an abomination you are golden )

- Circles ( as places of learning, research, philosophy and full of wise teachers )

What i think Chantry did that was bad :

- knight commander has the last word

- templars are untouchable ( they answer only to the knight commander )

- the first enchanter is a title on par with " best ****** in the Blooming ROSE " when it comes to power or influence

- fear every mage - he may be an abomination ( if you bully him enough he will be 100 % , but they don't tell them that )

- abuse of templar power and authority

- mages as the worst of makers creations

-Circles ( as jails or containment camps - > Kirkwall)

 

The tranquility for me should be used only to punish those who are dangerous for the outside world ( psychologically usatble and every blood mage )

[Allazor]

Where did you hear that bullying a mage means that magically a demon charges in and brutishly takes control from the mage? I don't recall that.

 

From what I understand, you have to make a deal with the demon. You have to accept their offer. it's a conscious choice, which means it isn't any 100% anything.

 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Olivia

http://dragonage.wik...iki/Abomination

[efd731]

Form an police force used by the chantry, charge tolls for hunting bandits, protecting places, being guards/adventurers. Have a slightly larger Templar to Mage ratio. Mages and Templars are still bound together, but with a common cause might come to view one another with a little more respect/humanity. Mages might appreciate big beefy Templars with shields stopping them from becoming pincushions, wounded Templars might appreciate the occasion healing spell for themselves and fireball tossed at their enemies. Eventually they forget why they were enemies, as They become accustomed to the support of one another in combat and for camaraderie. Instead of spread out towers, build new villagers, mages get families,Templars do too, villages are self sufficient with enchanting done by those mages made tranquil, brings in income, farming done by those living there full time. My 2¢

[Allazor]

I would remind you that that wiki is created by fans. Nowhere in the lore is it stated that mages can ever, EVER be "forced" to turn into abominations (though Templars can, it seems).

 

here are the codex entries used to make those "assumptions" by the fans from the Dragon Age Games.

http://dragonage.wik...ry:_Abomination

http://dragonage.wik...onic_Possession

[Allazor]

Thank you.

 

From the last paragraph on the first link:

 

"The Circle has methods for weeding out those who are too at risk for demonic possession, and scant few mages would give up their free will to submit to such a bond with a demon."

 

Did you catch that?

 

Yes 

 

Regardless of the reason, a demon always attempts to possess a mage when it encounters one—by force or by making some kind of deal depending on the strength of the mage

"Olivia is a female apostate " "Due to her magical abilities, he has kept her existence a secret from the Circle of Magi."

[Allazor]

Here is Olivia and her sad tale :

 

 

at  6:51 mark her scene starts 

at 10:55 her father makes a lot of excuses for himself

 

Notice that when she got forced to the ground she didn't utter a word and then her transformation occurred , she was forcefully overtaken because she became an easy target not because she stroke a bargain. And that happend because she is a human with fears as any of us and a mage, she was alone and in weaken psychological state and became easy prey .

[ISpeakTheTruth]

.

 

Option B ) Total freedom

Result: abominations everywhere!!! You get an abomination, you get an abomination, EVERYONE GETS AN ABOMINATION!!!

Not to mention the possibility of all the nations becoming new Tevinters because mages can easily band together to overthrow their governments.

 

 

 

Why do you think free mages would cause an increase in abominations? Tevinter has 100% free mages yet they've never had a major issue with abominations. Abominations are a result of Chantry imprisoning mages for crimes they haven't committed.

 

I also find it disgusting to assume that because on mage society ended with Tevinter's morals that any and all mage society would end up being like Tevinter.... that's racist.

[Allazor]

I would say that's debatable. And I would say that words are not necessary for a pact with a demon--it's in the mind.

 

I'm not convinced of your argument, but I certainly AM curious. That seems like a terrible loophole in mage...safety.

 

Like i added above it's pure human desperation that made her an easy prey, she became weaker for a second and it was done. But i agree we need a bigger picture here , we need to know if the words are necessary because all deals with demons were made face to face until now in the game, but it was form the perspective of major characters and the protagonist so we can say some special treatment may be involved