216 réponses à ce sujet

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

No

 

That's your problem then. You're determined to not be happy, because you don't accept reality or don't like what the writers feel.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

the truth is that all are bad... haha

 

They are bad, but they're not bad for the reasons a lot of people they're bad for.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

Worse, but not singlficantly

 

It could have been FAR, FAR worse.

 

High EMS-Destroy is actually reasonably fairly acceptable and even inviting if you look at it from the right perspective.

[ImaginaryMatter]

They are bad, but they're not bad for the reasons a lot of people they're bad for.

 

I think that is a problem when it comes to criticizing these endings. There are a lot of things wrong with them but it is very difficult to exactly nail down the core(s) of the problem amongst the maelstrom of what went wrong.

[Iakus]

That's your problem then. You're determined to not be happy, because you don't accept reality or don't like what the writers feel.

 

Yeah , right, I absolutely love to hate a series which I sank hundreds of hours and dollars into.  Getting sucker-punched in the last ten minutes is absolutely the capstone of the experience!

 

I'd say in this case it's the writers who don't give a fecal matter what the player feels.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Yeah , right, I absolutely love to hate a series which I sank hundreds of hours and dollars into.  Getting sucker-punched in the last ten minutes is absolutely the capstone of the experience!

 

I'd say in this case it's the writers who don't give a fecal matter what the player feels.

 

I think the situation is a bit more complex than that. Despite how much I doubt Mac and Co's writing ability, I do honestly thing they care about the universe and aren't just in the industry to make a quick buck.

 

Yes, the ending was terrible in so many ways but I think the writers, originally, had the best intentions in mind. They did try to give us a epic finish. Did it fail?,,, Yes, it certainly did, but I do think they care. However, once you factor in PR strategies and one's livelihood the differences between well intentioned writer and guy-who's-trying-to-make-a-living disappear.

 

I can't agree enough that this ending was extremely disappointing, but I can't agree with you beyond that.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

I think that is a problem when it comes to criticizing these endings. There are a lot of things wrong with them but it is very difficult to exactly nail down the core(s) of the problem amongst the maelstrom of what went wrong.

 

Indeed.

 

The one thing that I dismiss though (and that a lot of people seem to champion when talking about how they hate the ending) is that it wasn't happy enough or heroic enough or what have you.

 

There are narrative flaws, executional flaws, lack of player definition/agency, thematic dissonance, and general breakdown of logical coherence and scientific and biological principles, but plenty of people got upset just because it didn't make them feel heroic and uppity. While you can have an empty and hollow feeling from the ending, it being put in because you don't get to be the uber hero.

 

Look at iakus signature for example. I think that's a bunch of useless cockamamey and not worth being catered too. It's just decrying anything that doesn't give them warm or happy fuzzies.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Look, no one deserves a bad ending to a story. Bioware had all the opportunities to do things right with this. Unfortunately Shepard couldn't be "the hero" of the story without massive space magic simply because it wouldn't be believable. To channel everything down one path at the end would limit replayability. The mistake was the suicide mission being in ME2. You couldn't re-run it in ME3. ME2 needed a vanilla ending. ME3 needed the suicide mission.

[dreamgazer]

I'm still hoping for an ending to ME1 where you didn't have to slaughter tens of thousands of people and deal with a gun held to the head of the council in order to defeat Sovereign. Fingers crossed with the next-gen remaster!

[wolfhowwl]

How about an ending to the second game where you aren't forced to choose between destroying a treasure trove of enemy technology or handing it over to the smuggest ******* in the galaxy and his merry band of Space Nazis?

[dreamgazer]

It could have been FAR, FAR worse.

Yup, both in bleakness and in narrative intentions.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

Look, no one deserves a bad ending to a story. Bioware had all the opportunities to do things right with this. Unfortunately Shepard couldn't be "the hero" of the story without massive space magic simply because it wouldn't be believable. To channel everything down one path at the end would limit replayability. The mistake was the suicide mission being in ME2. You couldn't re-run it in ME3. ME2 needed a vanilla ending. ME3 needed the suicide mission.

 

I very largely agree with this, but my biggest complaint on this issue is the thinking that something is terrible and needs to be changed on the basis of 'This doesn't make me feel like a good person or a hero! This is bad writing!'

 

It's ridiculous. Of all the things to hate the ending for, some people choose to hate it because it doesn't let them be the 'good' guy.

[Cross Jaeger]

Look, no one deserves a bad ending to a story. Bioware had all the opportunities to do things right with this. Unfortunately Shepard couldn't be "the hero" of the story without massive space magic simply because it wouldn't be believable. To channel everything down one path at the end would limit replayability. The mistake was the suicide mission being in ME2. You couldn't re-run it in ME3. ME2 needed a vanilla ending. ME3 needed the suicide mission.

I disagree with you, after all what happened I think can have a timeline, where if you have enough strength galactic and enough honor or rebellion all would be well and leave us satisfied with ourselves.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

Yup, both in bleakness and in narrative intentions.

 

As I've stated, I saw in a source that at some point in development, they were going to include elements to the ending similar to EoE.

 

Granted, the original ending to ME3 was rather bleak. As SuperMac said, it was intended to be a galactic dark-age, which, combined with their preference for synthesis, was likely supposed to be a sort of technological genesis story/garden of Eden paradise story.

[dreamgazer]

The galaxy was already a wasteland, though, because of the Reaper war.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Bit late to the party but you're certainly not alone in that sentiment OP.

 

I think that is a problem when it comes to criticizing these endings. There are a lot of things wrong with them but it is very difficult to exactly nail down the core(s) of the problem amongst the maelstrom of what went wrong.

 

Let's just sum it up as a lot of things going wrong and call it a day.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

I disagree with you, after all what happened I think can have a timeline, where if you have enough strength galactic and enough honor or rebellion all would be well and leave us satisfied with ourselves.

 

Honor and Rebellion are meaningless and useless against Reapers.

 

Strength is all that matters, and the Reapers surrounding Earth alone have the Galactic fleet outgunned in the long run, let alone in the entire galaxy.

 

Two of your three requirements for victory are meaningless, and one is not in your possession by a Texas country mile.

[Cross Jaeger]

I very largely agree with this, but my biggest complaint on this issue is the thinking that something is terrible and needs to be changed on the basis of 'This doesn't make me feel like a good person or a hero! This is bad writing!'

 

It's ridiculous. Of all the things to hate the ending for, some people choose to hate it because it doesn't let them be the 'good' guy.

exact after all the end defines your personality and I consider myself a good person who tried to save the galaxy without sacrifice more lifes

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

The galaxy was already a wasteland, though, because of the Reaper war.

 

That's highly debatable. It wasn't as if every single planet had been completely ravaged to the point of looking like the Australian Outback in Max Max or the Road Warrior, nor was there a technological regression from the destruction of the primary means of large-scale interstellar travel and communication as it was in the original ending. SuperMac himself specifically said that the galaxy would be in a 10,000 year dark age after the ending (as far as the original ending went).

 

Hell, until BW clarified it via applied phlebotinum, there were serious implications that the destruction of the relays equaled an unparalleled level of destruction in the galaxy that was arguably unseen since its formation. And it's not hard to see why given that we saw what happened the last time a relay was destroyed, so that reasoning, prior to BW's intervention, wasn't unfounded either.

[dreamgazer]

That's highly arguable. It wasn't as if every single planet had been completely ravaged to the point of looking like the Australian Outback in Max Max or the Road Warrior, nor was there a technological regression from the destruction of the primary means of large-scale interstellar travel and communication.

Not that arguable. Think about the state of Earth, Palaven, Thessia, the Citadel, and all the systems with a Reaper presence.

That's what he meant by post-ending DLC taking place in a wasteland.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

exact after all the end defines your personality and I consider myself a good person who tried to save the galaxy without sacrifice more lifes

 

I think you completely missed the point of what I said. I wasn't encouraging how you feel. I was criticizing it.

[Cross Jaeger]

I just wanted to give the galaxy a second chance and live to see together with the girlfriend of shapper in my case miranda, she made me fall in love xd

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

Not that arguable. Think about the state of Earth, Palaven, Thessia, the Citadel, and all the systems with a Reaper presence.

That's what he meant by post-ending DLC taking place in a wasteland.

 

I wouldn't say it was a wasteland as much as a battleground. From what we see, there is still a lot of infrastructure intact, and there are relatively stable populations that are surviving. A lot of colonies will be gone, but for the most part, it would be a lot easier to recover from than what happened with the Crucible originally.

 

I don't think that's what he meant at all. I think the wasteland and dark-age is a consequence of the Crucible more than it is of the Reapers. That was the price of stopping them, according to SuperMac's vision; you revert technology (especially in interstellar travel and communication, two of the biggest issues post Crucible) back hundreds, possibly thousands of years.

[dreamgazer]

(shrug)

The galaxy, notably the central hub of operations and the primary homeworlds, would be in a devastated, unattractive state of repair no matter what. "Boring", in his words. Pretty sure that's the extent of his thought-process.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

(shrug)

The galaxy, notably the central hub of operations and the primary homeworlds, would be in a devastated, unattractive state of repair no matter what. "Boring", in his words. Pretty sure that's the extent of his thought-process.

 

And I think we'll both agree that it was poorly-conceived, very poorly-managed, and incredibly poorly executed.

 

As well, I suppose I should chalk that up to one other thing about the original ending I hate: I'm not a fan of taking the neo-luddite 'technology is bad in a roundabout way' route with it.

 

Oh well, I have the extended cut and headcanon. It can't hurt me anymore.