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#51
AlanC9

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That's highly debatable. It wasn't as if every single planet had been completely ravaged to the point of looking like the Australian Outback in Max Max or the Road Warrior, nor was there a technological regression from the destruction of the primary means of large-scale interstellar travel and communication as it was in the original ending. SuperMac himself specifically said that the galaxy would be in a 10,000 year dark age after the ending (as far as the original ending went).


I never saw the 10,000 year figure. Got a link? That figure doesn't make any sense, which I'm sure isn't news to you. Even without the relays MEU mass effect drives are comparable to Star Trek's warp drives. The Reaper drives are substantially better.

I'm something of an outlier here in that I think the MEU would be more fun if the relays stayed busted.
 

Hell, until BW clarified it via applied phlebotinum, there were serious implications that the destruction of the relays equaled an unparalleled level of destruction in the galaxy that was arguably unseen since its formation. And it's not hard to see why given that we saw what happened the last time a relay was destroyed, so that reasoning, prior to BW's intervention, wasn't unfounded either.


 
Well, except that we see the Citadel Relay conspicuously failing to nova. It doesn't even destroy the Citadel, let alone Earth. And the Normandy found a non-scorched planet to land on. I suppose you could work around these things if you tried hard enough, but nova theory was always a stretch.

#52
Daemul

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Happy ending? LOL! To me, the endings we got at happy endings, I was ace expecting the ending to be more dark. I expected the Crucible to be a Reaper trap which the Catalyst created in order to get races to pour all their remaining resources into building it and later on, when the time came, he would then move the Citadel to secure location so that the races would funnel all their remaining strength into that one area in order for them to deliver the Crucible, leading to their complete destruction.

And hence, the cycle would continue forever.
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#53
Chashan

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I think everyone wanted an end as shown in the video.. xd

 

I'll just say that I do not think even the worst Renegade Shepard deserves to be put through the "Catalyst's" wailings.

 

That its absence in MEHEM happens to remove what I perceive one of the worst offenders in the base-game's finale is only convenient.

 

 


 

There are narrative flaws, executional flaws, lack of player definition/agency, thematic dissonance, and general breakdown of logical coherence and scientific and biological principles, [...]

 

Sums up the key-issues that I'm having even with the EC, which I can call a minimal effort at best on BW's part as it doesn't much to address these issues. Of course, while ME increasingly turned soft rather than hard science fiction with ME2 the idea of implanting "a new DNA" in inanimate matter as presented in one of the options is simply ridiculous.


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#54
Hello!I'mTheDoctor

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I never saw the 10,000 year figure. Got a link? That figure doesn't make any sense, which I'm sure isn't news to you. Even without the relays MEU mass effect drives are comparable to Star Trek's warp drives. The Reaper drives are substantially better.

I'm something of an outlier here in that I think the MEU would be more fun if the relays stayed busted.
 

 
Well, except that we see the Citadel Relay conspicuously failing to nova. It doesn't even destroy the Citadel, let alone Earth. And the Normandy found a non-scorched planet to land on. I suppose you could work around these things if you tried hard enough, but nova theory was always a stretch.

 

I think SuperMac was using hyperbole to define what he meant by the time-scale.

 

Personally, I think the relays should be rebuilt rapidly. I don't see the appeal of a space travel story without large-scale space travel. The Relays are an integral part of the series, and I think they're very necessary to bring to the future.

 

In the original endings? Looks like a pretty big explosion to me, and minus the Normandy somehow landing on a non-destroyed planet, you don't see any other evidence that might shoot down the idea. It was pretty clear though that the ending was a meant to be a 'new beginning' for the galaxy, a startover period.



#55
Daemul

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I think everyone wanted an end as shown in the video.. xd

 

Hell no. I described the ending I wanted a few posts further up. I'll compromise and accept the Control ending though. 



#56
Iakus

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Indeed.

 

The one thing that I dismiss though (and that a lot of people seem to champion when talking about how they hate the ending) is that it wasn't happy enough or heroic enough or what have you.

 

There are narrative flaws, executional flaws, lack of player definition/agency, thematic dissonance, and general breakdown of logical coherence and scientific and biological principles, but plenty of people got upset just because it didn't make them feel heroic and uppity. While you can have an empty and hollow feeling from the ending, it being put in because you don't get to be the uber hero.

 

Look at iakus signature for example. I think that's a bunch of useless cockamamey and not worth being catered too. It's just decrying anything that doesn't give them warm or happy fuzzies.

 

THe endings fail on many, many levels.  Logically, philosophically, narratively, ethically, take your pick.

 

As for my sig, well, Pterry would be sad to hear you disagree, I guess.  

 

But have you played the Mass Effect trilogy?  It is absolultely filled with people calling you a "hero". Heck one of Miranda's first lines in ME2 is "S/He's a hero.  A bloody icon"  In ME3 the Alliance brass is literally begging Shepard to save them (just before they get wiped out)  Hackett gives a big speech to Shepard about how he or she is a hero.  Major Coates tells Shepard how knowing the Commander is leading them is giving them hope.  

 

So, yeah.  I kinda expected the option to not have to sell my soul to the Reapers in order to "win"  Heck, spare the geth and EDI, and I could live with the breath scene as a "reward" for a high EMS.  

 

MEHEM is far from perfect.  The only way a truly "good" ending could come about is by seriously rewriting ME3, likely ME2, and possibly ME1 as well.  But if I must have a nonsensical ending, I'd rather have an upbeat nonsensical ending and a pointlessly tragic one.  

 

Sadly, the Bioware writers disagree.

 

Note i said "upbeat" not happy.  With billions dead and a galaxy in ruins, a truly happy ending is never in the cards.


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#57
Cross Jaeger

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Hell no. I described the ending I wanted a few posts further up. I'll compromise and accept the Control ending though. 

most want a heroic end



#58
Hello!I'mTheDoctor

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THe endings fail on many, many levels.  Logically, philosophically, narratively, ethically, take your pick.

 

As for my sig, well, Pterry would be sad to hear you disagree, I guess.  

 

But have you played the Mass Effect trilogy?  It is absolultely filled with people calling you a "hero". Heck one of Miranda's first lines in ME2 is "S/He's a hero.  A bloody icon"  In ME3 the Alliance brass is literally begging Shepard to save them (just before they get wiped out)  Hackett gives a big speech to Shepard about how he or she is a hero.  Major Coates tells Shepard how knowing the Commander is leading them is giving them hope.  

 

So, yeah.  I kinda expected the option to not have to sell my soul to the Reapers in order to "win"  Heck, spare the geth and EDI, and I could live with the breath scene as a "reward" for a high EMS.  

 

MEHEM is far from perfect.  The only way a truly "good" ending could come about is by seriously rewriting ME3, likely ME2, and possibly ME1 as well.  But if I must have a nonsensical ending, I'd rather have an upbeat nonsensical ending and a pointlessly tragic one.  

 

Sadly, the Bioware writers disagree.

 

Note i said "upbeat" not happy.  With billions dead and a galaxy in ruins, a truly happy ending is never in the cards.

 

There is no "ethical" or "moral" failure.

 

Yes, I have played the ME franchise; hero is a word that is essentially impossible to nail down a meaning too; there are so very many definitions. And it's nowhere as simple as you seem to be depicting it. A hero, for starters, need not ever question their actions if it brings about a positive consequence.

 

So you can be perfectly 'heroic' and still sell your soul to the Reapers (or not, since you don't actually sell your soul to the Reapers at all at any point.) You just get an ending that isn't what you'd hope it could be. There's no narrative reason to spare the Geth or EDI (or destroy them either, as their fate is seemingly tangential to the ending). You're upset that you don't get to be the big, all-conquering hero, and frankly, I find that woefully dismissive. I think your reasons for disliking the ending based on that are absurd.

 

A nonsensical ending is a nonsensical ending. Upbeat and tragic are two words to the same coin. To many others (myself included), it is a very upbeat ending. You choose not to see it that way, all because you don't get to feel like a hero. Sorry, but I think the game is a tough lesson in reality for players in that aspect.

 

Nut up or shut up, that's what I have to say about that. It's pathetic.



#59
AlanC9

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I'll just say that I do not think even the worst Renegade Shepard deserves to be put through the "Catalyst's" wailings.


Lots of people in the MEU don't get what they deserve, of course.



#60
DirtySHISN0

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Flashbacks.

 

Has it been two years already?


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#61
AlanC9

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Personally, I think the relays should be rebuilt rapidly. I don't see the appeal of a space travel story without large-scale space travel. The Relays are an integral part of the series, and I think they're very necessary to bring to the future.


I never saw the necessity of being able to cross the entire galaxy. The galaxy's plenty big enough even if you can only reach a small portion of it. Rebuilding the relay network would also be a pretty good pretext for a mission across the galaxy.

My old sequel concept was to start in and around Sol system a couple of centuries after the destruction of the Relays. You've got all the surviving races there, with viable populations. (Even if there weren't any krogan females, krogan live for centuries.) Obviously, this would require a convenient dextro world within a few hundred l.y. of Earth, but since there's no reason there couldn't be one.
 

In the original endings? Looks like a pretty big explosion to me,


The Citadel Relay explosion is plainly a fizzle; hell, it doesn't even kill Shepard. Sure, pre-EC one could headcanon that the Citadel Relay explosion was weaker than the other relay explosions because reasons, but there's no evidence to support that. Though a player who didn't play ME1 would be far less likely to realize that the initial blast is supposed to come from a relay.

 

I agree with what the ending was supposed to represent. The imagery does work for that. Of course, you could crash the Normandy on Demeter or some such and still find plenty of empty space for that scene. 



#62
Iakus

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There is no "ethical" or "moral" failure.

 

Yes, I have played the ME franchise; hero is a word that is essentially impossible to nail down a meaning too; there are so very many definitions. And it's nowhere as simple as you seem to be depicting it. A hero, for starters, need not ever question their actions if it brings about a positive consequence.

 

Massively, did you change your name?

 

 

So you can be perfectly 'heroic' and still sell your soul to the Reapers (or not, since you don't actually sell your soul to the Reapers at all at any point.) You just get an ending that isn't what you'd hope it could be. There's no narrative reason to spare the Geth or EDI (or destroy them either, as their fate is seemingly tangential to the ending). You're upset that you don't get to be the big, all-conquering hero, and frankly, I find that woefully dismissive. I think your reasons for disliking the ending based on that are absurd.

 

Which reasons would that be?  I have a lot of them.

 

 

A nonsensical ending is a nonsensical ending. Upbeat and tragic are two words to the same coin. To many others (myself included), it is a very upbeat ending. You choose not to see it that way, all because you don't get to feel like a hero. Sorry, but I think the game is a tough lesson in reality for players in that aspect.

 

 

People generally forgive nonsensical upbeat over nonsensical tragic.  Why else are romcoms so popular?

 

 

 

Nut up or shut up, that's what I have to say about that. It's pathetic.

 

And I'm the dismissive one, huh?   :mellow:



#63
Reorte

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I never saw the necessity of being able to cross the entire galaxy. The galaxy's plenty big enough even if you can only reach a small portion of it. Rebuilding the relay network would also be a pretty good pretext for a mission across the galaxy.

That would make a potentially decent game I think. Everyone is still around on Earth so you can have all the traditional ME races, and a good bit of setting off into the unknown, never knowing what's around the next corner.

The idea I've mentioned a couple of times in the past is to claim that the dormant relays were unaffected so the mission would be finding ways to link everyone back together using those. Then you could stumble onto a previously-seen world every now and then, finding out how it had managed in isolation and post destruction. Lots of new stuff and a reasonable chunk of the familar so that it's still a Mass Effect game in more than simply name.
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#64
Daemul

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most want a heroic end

Heroic? David is that you? 



#65
KaiserShep

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I never saw the necessity of being able to cross the entire galaxy. The galaxy's plenty big enough even if you can only reach a small portion of it. Rebuilding the relay network would also be a pretty good pretext for a mission across the galaxy.

 

 

I can't help but think that the necessity to rebuild the mass relay network would also see a spike in technological improvement in other areas, like FTL travel. I'd like to think that the only reason tech in the MEU seems to stagnate is because everyone grew super complacent with all this cushy reaper crap floating around. Hell the asari, salarians and turians sat in the Citadel for hundreds of years and still knew very little about the Citadel, because they figured the keepers would do all the work for them.



#66
Hello!I'mTheDoctor

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Massively, did you change your name?

 

Which reasons would that be?  I have a lot of them.

 

People generally forgive nonsensical upbeat over nonsensical tragic.  Why else are romcoms so popular?

 

 

And I'm the dismissive one, huh?   :mellow:

 

? That someone I should know?

 

The reason that you hold anger and disgust towards the ending because it isn't 'heroic' or leaves you feeling ethically or morally pure. I'd say your morals are screwy, obstructive, and put you at a disadvantage in reality.

 

As I said, nonsense is nonsense. That's not my big schtick here though; my thing is that I think you're trying to claim that the ending is bad because it makes you feel moral and emotional distress. I'd say that you should adapt your morals to be more goal-oriented instead of principle-oriented. Despite what you may think, history and reality have never punished those that get things done no matter the cost. There's no right way to do something. You either do it, or you don't. The morality of the action is determined by the outcome and results.

 

I never said you were dismissive. I said I was dismissive towards your philosophy. It's a philosophy of cowardice trying to pass itself as honor and virtue.



#67
Hello!I'mTheDoctor

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Heroic? David is that you? 

 

No, this guy is, among other things unimpressive, but he's harmless and benevolent.



#68
dreamgazer

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There is no "ethical" or "moral" failure.

 

Yes, I have played the ME franchise; hero is a word that is essentially impossible to nail down a meaning too; there are so very many definitions. And it's nowhere as simple as you seem to be depicting it. A hero, for starters, need not ever question their actions if it brings about a positive consequence.

 

big-thumbs-up.gif


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#69
spirosz

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insert 'here we go.gif' from the Joker. 


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#70
Hello!I'mTheDoctor

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insert 'here we go.gif' from the Joker. 

 

Bring it.

 

a_480x205.gif


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#71
wolfhowwl

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Massively, did you change your name?


The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom. BSN posters rise, evolve, advance, and at the apex of their trolling they are extinguished.

The cycle cannot be broken.

#72
Jorji Costava

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Yes, I have played the ME franchise; hero is a word that is essentially impossible to nail down a meaning too; there are so very many definitions. And it's nowhere as simple as you seem to be depicting it. A hero, for starters, need not ever question their actions if it brings about a positive consequence.


Two things: First, what constitutes a 'positive consequence?' Second, on the basis of what evidence do you make the last claim in this paragraph? Even a lot of straight-ahead utilitarians hold that the rightness of an action depends upon its expected, rather than actual consequences.
 

So you can be perfectly 'heroic' and still sell your soul to the Reapers (or not, since you don't actually sell your soul to the Reapers at all at any point.) You just get an ending that isn't what you'd hope it could be. There's no narrative reason to spare the Geth or EDI (or destroy them either, as their fate is seemingly tangential to the ending). You're upset that you don't get to be the big, all-conquering hero, and frankly, I find that woefully dismissive. I think your reasons for disliking the ending based on that are absurd.


I'd hardly call the death of the Geth and EDI tangential to the ending, since the whole conceit of the ending is the singularity, and their deaths are what tie the Destroy ending to that singularity concept. But more to the point, I understand (although don't completely agree with) the view that the ending choices were just too morally bleak. There's something to be said for consistency, and the ME series, whether we like it or not, has consistently rewarded 'good' actions. When things changed abruptly, it was understandable that a lot of people would feel some system shock about that.
 

A nonsensical ending is a nonsensical ending. Upbeat and tragic are two words to the same coin. To many others (myself included), it is a very upbeat ending. You choose not to see it that way, all because you don't get to feel like a hero. Sorry, but I think the game is a tough lesson in reality for players in that aspect.


Outside the death of Shepard, I don't think the ending is an attempt to provide a harsh lesson in reality at all. If anything, it's a continuation of the power fantasy: You, of all organics, get chosen to decide how the biggest crises in all of the galaxy gets solved. An ending that's trying to bring the player down to earth would not include references to 'the Shepard.'
 

Nut up or shut up, that's what I have to say about that. It's pathetic.


There's neither the need nor the room to resort to personal attacks here. I think we can express disagreement with each other without insisting that anyone who disagrees is a coward, fool or worse. There's only so much time we all have to dedicate to reading and posting on the BSN, and including this kind of personal stuff is a waste of space.


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#73
Hello!I'mTheDoctor

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Two things: First, what constitutes a 'positive consequence?' Second, on the basis of what evidence do you make the last claim in this paragraph? Even a lot of straight-ahead utilitarians hold that the rightness of an action depends upon its expected, rather than actual consequences.
 


I'd hardly call the death of the Geth and EDI tangential to the ending, since the whole conceit of the ending is the singularity, and their deaths are what tie the Destroy ending to that singularity concept. But more to the point, I understand (although don't completely agree with) the view that the ending choices were just too morally bleak. There's something to be said for consistency, and the ME series, whether we like it or not, has consistently rewarded 'good' actions. When things changed abruptly, it was understandable that a lot of people would feel some system shock about that.
 


Outside the death of Shepard, I don't think the ending is an attempt to provide a harsh lesson in reality at all. If anything, it's a continuation of the power fantasy: You, of all organics, get chosen to decide how the biggest crises in all of the galaxy gets solved. An ending that's trying to bring the player down to earth would not include references to 'the Shepard.'
 


There's neither the need nor the room to resort to personal attacks here. I think we can express disagreement with each other without insisting that anyone who disagrees is a coward, fool or worse. There's only so much time we all have to dedicate to reading and posting on the BSN, and including this kind of personal stuff is a waste of space.

 

1. A positive consequence is something that can occur from myself completing what I set out to do and holding a certain level of criteria to accomplish as part of my goal. If all or most are accomplished, then you're likely going to have a lot more positive consequences benefiting. In this case, I have destroyed the Reapers and secured myself, the people I care about, and the galaxy at large from that threat. As for the rightness of an action, I'm not a person who gives points for good intentions. If a plan fails, and the goal isn't accomplished, it doesn't matter what the intent was. It failed. But to get to what I mean by my statement is that I mean that if my goals are accomplished and what I consider to be a beneficial outcome is achieved, it matters not how I reach that goal. If the action advances my agenda, no action is off the table.

 

2. After thinking about it, I've come to the conclusion that the Singularity is really only an aspect of one ending in particular, that being Synthesis. Otherwise, the basic theme behind the ending is more on to inevitable conflict between Organics vs Synthetics, or a chaos vs. order idea. One of the possibilities for solving this problem is to induce a tech singularity, but I wouldn't say that it is the main theme behind it. That said, I can understand narratively the purpose behind the Geth and EDI being killed, but it is arbitrary how they are suddenly at the focus of the decision as the primary consequence of invoking Destroy. As I see it, it was rather thinly veiled as a means to discourage people from automatically choosing to destroy.

 

I do understand the idea behind the game rewarding 'good' actions, and I completely disagree with it. Tying into my last comment (which was not intended as an insult but a real dismissal of the philosophy that the 'moral constitution of an action' outweighs any practical application or positive benefits. I don't agree with the philosophy that 'moral integrity' trumps positives (as well as possibly the only chance to win the war).

 

3. The harsh lesson that I'm talking about is how you're not always going to get a golden option or a third-way out of a problem. You're not always able to be the 'golden hero who spears evil with his lance of almighty moral righteousness and good'. It's a lesson that nothing is clear-cut and there isn't always a perfect answer, and there is no black and white morality to dance with. It ties into the second paragraph a bit, going by how I'm describing it and how you summarized the ME trilogies knack for making the upper-left dialogue choice the golden option nine times out of ten.

 

4. Read what I posted for 2. It wasn't meant to be a personal attack. An insult, yes, but not one aimed towards anyone, but towards a particular chain of thought I fine to be rather disgusting and disturbing. It's meant to tell people that you have to accept things as they are, not complain about them or what you want them to be. It's the hand you're dealt, so nut up and deal, or shut up and leave (not actually to you or anyone in particular, at least not that I'd say for fear of invoking a warning or ban).

 

That said, I do think things would be a lot simpler if people were more negative and violent. And more fun.



#74
Jorji Costava

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1. A positive consequence is something that can occur from myself completing what I set out to do and holding a certain level of criteria to accomplish as part of my goal. If all or most are accomplished, then you're likely going to have a lot more positive consequences benefiting. In this case, I have destroyed the Reapers and secured myself, the people I care about, and the galaxy at large from that threat. As for the rightness of an action, I'm not a person who gives points for good intentions. If a plan fails, and the goal isn't accomplished, it doesn't matter what the intent was. It failed. But to get to what I mean by my statement is that I mean that if my goals are accomplished and what I consider to be a beneficial outcome is achieved, it matters not how I reach that goal. If the action advances my agenda, no action is off the table.


Notice that I said 'expected consequences' in my previous post, not 'intentions.' It's very common for the most carefully constructed utilitarian calculations to fail in reality because of some unforeseen mishap, while incredibly irrational decision-making processes often result in great outcomes by dumb luck (anyone who's played any poker knows exactly what I'm talking about). This is exactly why even a lot of the most hard-core consequentialists don't hold that results are the only thing that matters; they hold that what matters is what we have good reason to believe about what the results of a given action will be. But enough of this.
 

2. After thinking about it, I've come to the conclusion that the Singularity is really only an aspect of one ending in particular, that being Synthesis. Otherwise, the basic theme behind the ending is more on to inevitable conflict between Organics vs Synthetics, or a chaos vs. order idea. One of the possibilities for solving this problem is to induce a tech singularity, but I wouldn't say that it is the main theme behind it. That said, I can understand narratively the purpose behind the Geth and EDI being killed, but it is arbitrary how they are suddenly at the focus of the decision as the primary consequence of invoking Destroy. As I see it, it was rather thinly veiled as a means to discourage people from automatically choosing to destroy.


We're probably talking past each other a bit here. By 'singularity,' I mean the hypothesis that the existence of an AI capable of recursive self-improvement would constitute some kind of intellectual 'event-horizon'; this hypothesis is supposed to underwrite ME's idea of organic/synthetic conflict. It's the explanation of that conflict, not the solution to it. Anyway, it seems obvious to me that synthetic organic conflict is the conceit of the ending, not just synthesis (after all, we get the spiel from the catalyst even if our EMS isn't even high enough to access the synthesis ending). Destroy kills synthetics because that's how it's supposed to solve the conflict. If you were choosing hostages to discourage people from making the choice, it's not a good idea to pick the group that has a roughly 1/3 chance of not even being around to hold hostage.
 

I do understand the idea behind the game rewarding 'good' actions, and I completely disagree with it. Tying into my last comment (which was not intended as an insult but a real dismissal of the philosophy that the 'moral constitution of an action' outweighs any practical application or positive benefits. I don't agree with the philosophy that 'moral integrity' trumps positives (as well as possibly the only chance to win the war).


It's well and good for you to have that moral philosophy, but the question is, what implications should this have for the game? The most sensible thing, it seems to me, is that the game should try to remain a bit more neutral on whether or not 'moral integrity' is of any real value. What it should not do is to treat your personal moral philosophy as if its truth should be obvious to any rational person; it isn't.
 

3. The harsh lesson that I'm talking about is how you're not always going to get a golden option or a third-way out of a problem. You're not always able to be the 'golden hero who spears evil with his lance of almighty moral righteousness and good'. It's a lesson that nothing is clear-cut and there isn't always a perfect answer, and there is no black and white morality to dance with. It ties into the second paragraph a bit, going by how I'm describing it and how you summarized the ME trilogies knack for making the upper-left dialogue choice the golden option nine times out of ten.


What I'm arguing is that the supposedly harsh moral lesson of the ending just isn't there. Outside of Shepard's death, synthesis is supposed to be the 'third way out.' Heck, it even brings back Keiji from the dead. Not exactly harsh moralizing about the cruel realities of war.
 

4. Read what I posted for 2. It wasn't meant to be a personal attack. An insult, yes, but not one aimed towards anyone, but towards a particular chain of thought I fine to be rather disgusting and disturbing. It's meant to tell people that you have to accept things as they are, not complain about them or what you want them to be. It's the hand you're dealt, so nut up and deal, or shut up and leave (not actually to you or anyone in particular, at least not that I'd say for fear of invoking a warning or ban).


It seemed pretty obvious to me that it was directed towards specific posters. But regardless, I don't see any value in continuing this particular part of the conversation any further.
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#75
Iakus

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The reason that you hold anger and disgust towards the ending because it isn't 'heroic' or leaves you feeling ethically or morally pure. I'd say your morals are screwy, obstructive, and put you at a disadvantage in reality.

 

As I said, nonsense is nonsense. That's not my big schtick here though; my thing is that I think you're trying to claim that the ending is bad because it makes you feel moral and emotional distress. I'd say that you should adapt your morals to be more goal-oriented instead of principle-oriented. Despite what you may think, history and reality have never punished those that get things done no matter the cost. There's no right way to do something. You either do it, or you don't. The morality of the action is determined by the outcome and results.

 

I never said you were dismissive. I said I was dismissive towards your philosophy. It's a philosophy of cowardice trying to pass itself as honor and virtue.

Fortunately, the ME universe isn't reality.  And when it sudden;y punishes you for a play style it encouraged across three games, I tend to get a little upset.

 

And yes, nonsense is nonsense. I do not disagree with this.  However, a game with a nonsensical story that still feels good to play can still be enjoyed as a mindless shooter.  People enjoy actions most action movies for the same reason.  But a bleak, angst-driven story that seems to drive home Harbinger's "You strive against inevitability" monologue doesn't lend itself to be enjoyed that way.

 

  And please do not preach to me about what morals I should and should not have.  And i'll do you the same courtesy.

 

But are you sure you aren't massively?  He made some very similar accusations shortly before he dropped off the radar.