215 réponses à ce sujet

[MrMrPendragon]

Based one your description of the two games, Dragon Age comes off as kiddy and light. If I knew nothing about both games but had to make a decision to buy one, I would go with The Witcher since it has a more mature vibe.

 

I think the reason why Witcher seems like it gives off a more adult vibe is because the "magic and fantasy" bit is not as emphasized. Not that magical creatures and fantasy elements are a bad thing, it's just that to a regular non-gaming (or maybe even to the casual gamer) person, magic fireballs and dragons are always associated to younger people, cartoons, and all that stuff.

 

It's just that the Witcher seems like it focuses more on realistic problems like political conspiracy, regicide, and "regular people" war, rather than demon invasions, magic, and dragons. But of course, the Witcher doesn't leave that out completely.

[Majestic Jazz]

agreed

Why? Nobody is forcing you to participate in the activities.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

agreed

 

Why ? You get offended when you see one ? You don't have to enter that place you know. You can move to the other buildings. 

[thats1evildude]

I wish we could have a game without a brothel.

 

I'd support that.

 

I just find it to be a waste. Even if I weren't a little uneasy about soliciting prostitution, who really uses the brothel that much? Couldn't we get an opera house, a gambling den, a fighting pit or some other form of entertainment?

 

 

Why ? You get offended when you see one ? You don't have to enter that place you know. You can move to the other buildings. 

Except they're not going to just have a brothel in a game for the sole purpose of utilizing its services. At least some quests are going to involve a trip to the brothel.

[MrDuck]

Meh. I'm kind of indifferent about including nudity and full on sex scenes in game. If I wanted to look at porn, there is no shortage of it on the internet. I like the way Dragon Age treats the whole thing with a sense of humor.

 

That being said, I do think it's kind of ridiculous that we Americans treat sex like it's more offensive and taboo than murder ... God forbid you see someone's nipple, you might go blind!

 

Chalk that up to America still clinging to its puritanical roots. Europe had its Enlightenment. We, unfortunately, are still waiting for ours.

Here in Europe, we do things right. We all walk around nude all the time. Sometimes you'd wish that that one person put some clothes on though. 

 

Uhum, so back on topic. What would be neat is if we got the option to build a brothel right in Skyhold. I'll name my Inquisitor Peter Baelish and voila. 

 

On a serious note, I'm indifferent about it.

[nici2412]

I think the reason why Witcher seems like it gives off a more adult vibe is because the "magic and fantasy" bit is not as emphasized. Not that magical creatures and fantasy elements are a bad thing, it's just that to a regular non-gaming (or maybe even to the casual gamer) person, magic fireballs and dragons are always associated to younger people, cartoons, and all that stuff.

 

It's just that the Witcher seems like it focuses more on realistic problems like political conspiracy, regicide, and "regular people" war, rather than demon invasions, magic, and dragons. But of course, the Witcher doesn't leave that out completely.

That's what i meant. The "darkest" moments in Dragon Age were involved with supernatural events. Let's take as a example the broodmother in Origins. I absolutely loved it. I loved the describcion of the transformation during your way to her. There is a really depressing atmosphere. But it it fictional and nothing what can happen in real life. So it doesn't scare me at all (some spoilers following)

In Witcher 2 for example you can see how a furious human mob brutally kills  dwarfs and elfes during a pogrom. This only happens because you made a certain decision. And it is not only hinted, but showed in all it's cruelty. Or finding a kidnapped, raped and pregnant (elf)woman and hearing her say, she wishes she would be dead while you try to rescue her is something what disturbes me much more, because I know that this can and actually happens during our time in our society.

[SofaJockey]

Not wishing to divert the thread too far away from the boobs conversation,

but I was quite struck by what I found to be an intelligent analysis of the trope:
"Women as Background Decoration" by Anita Sarkeesian.

 

I found Anita's assessment to be a little unforgiving in places but

generally she made important points that should give any
(particularly male) gamer pause for thought and for that reason I have linked it here.

 

I think BioWare on the whole handle this matter a lot more intelligently than most.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nici2412]

Did you even go into Howe's fun-in-the-sun basement? While DA is 'lighter' in a sense, you're really going over the top with how much lighter it is. The thing is, BioWare likes its humour so we forget that Fenris would most probably raped by his masters, Lyrium is used to effectively control the Templar Order and Hespith landed into a Lovecraft novel.

That's a good point. I didn't play da2 extensively (only 2 times) and additionally didn't like fenris, so i missed this information. But that's the difference. This kind of cruelties are mostly hinted in dragon age while it is explicit shown in witcher. There are exceptions like the murder of hawkes mother, but it like i said it's a exception while it's the norm in witcher.
Maybe i was to harsh to dragon age. Lord of the rings with a bit of game of thrones and disney would have been the more precise description (in my opinion)

"Disney" referred to the overall story. The hero saves the world/city in both dragon age games . While in witcher 2 no matter what you do you always fail to prevent the "villain" winning at the end.Your actions just determinate the degree of failing.

[Neon Rising Winter]

It'd be a great way to make coin. You can do it in AC2's Manor if I recall correctly. Soldiers get horny and a brothel releases the tension.

 

And to make it fair (since women are military in Thedas too) brothels should be filled with sexy male dwarves who try to mimic Varric as best they can.

You could turn it into a hilariously sleazy resource management mini game. When you recruit blocks of troops they could be assigned statistical values for preferred race, gender, orientation, plus a random set of special requirements. You must then recruit and equip your brothel to match these or suffer catastrophic morale failure. Maybe not for the main game, but I think that would make a wonderful app.

[cindercatz]

Personally, it's part of the seedy underbelly side of the DA world, but unless it follows the descriptions we have already (i.e. actually interesting), then I really don't care. The only brothels I've ever seen treated seriously and done fairly well in a game are in Witcher 2. Treating sexuality and sexual issues as an in-joke has hurt the series so far imo, and more than other BW games, or honestly worse than any game I can think of. Avoiding nudity in general also hurts any mature themed work in any medium that's supposed to approach those issues or appropriate thematic material. So if those two legacy issues persist, I don't expect anything positive out of the presense of DA brothels. If there's a location you just move through as part of the story, or you simply know secondhand of their existence, that would pretty much satisfy the the demands of the setting, and be no more or less interesting than they've been so far. So yeah, like everything else, do it well or why bother?

[Darvins]

Treats you like an adult =/= shows you a lot of naked women.

 

This, I'm not saying don't have it in, I think it adds to the setting potentially but, CD Projekt and the Witcher games are not stirling examples of mature content, they fail often. For example, ignoring the first Witcher Game as even they have admitted they fecked up with the cards. They have that scene outside the keep with the drunk guard singing the Plough them song. One time through that would be scene setting, then allowing it to fade away maybe with the guard falling asleep or something. No they had him singing it over and over and over again, the entire time your there he is singing that song. That is Teenager trying to be mature levels.

 

Then there is going to freaking E3 and talking at the interview about the size of their Brothels and how they know players will be 'Spending a lot of time there' again that isn't selling me on mature thats selling me on Teenager trying to be mature, and that is not the same thing. There are other times Witcher gets it right but... there are as many times when it frankly fecks the hell up. It's not easy.

 

Can a Brothel be done right yes, can it serve a function in the game of setting and so on, yes. On the other hand it can be done so very wrong, having them does not on it's own make a game mature either.

[Setiweb]

 

 

I can also go without a Brothel in the Game. Never used any Option there and avoided these Places like the Plague in the previous Games. Pubs are okay, though.

All this talk about brothels (and actions thereof) and I totally didn't read "Pubs" correctly.  :/

 

Next there will be forum reaction videos.

[MrMrPendragon]

That's what i meant. The "darkest" moments in Dragon Age were involved with supernatural events. Let's take as a example the broodmother in Origins. I absolutely loved it. I loved the describcion of the transformation during your way to her. There is a really depressing atmosphere. But it it fictional and nothing what can happen in real life. So it doesn't scare me at all (some spoilers following)

In Witcher 2 for example you can see how a furious human mob brutally kills  dwarfs and elfes during a pogrom. This only happens because you made a certain decision. And it is not only hinted, but showed in all it's cruelty. Or finding a kidnapped, raped and pregnant (elf)woman and hearing her say, she wishes she would be dead while you try to rescue her is something what disturbes me much more, because I know that this can and actually happens during our time in our society.

 

You are right. Which is why it's hard to notice when the series is being dark. Usually you get so drowned in the lighter and humorous side of things that you forget that the world you're playing in is pretty harsh.

 

Dragon Age is much more subtle. It's relying on the "Oh since we're set in the medieval times, I'm sure these things happen even if I don't see it" kind of mentality. It's fine when it comes to certain things, but sometimes I just want something to bring me back to reality and the problems that come with it.

 

It's not a matter of which series is "darker". It's just a matter of which series is more obvious about it. A big red arrow with "This is dark stuff right here" notice is sometimes needed in Dragon Age.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

 

I'd support that.

 

I just find it to be a waste. Even if I weren't a little uneasy about soliciting prostitution, who really uses the brothel that much? Couldn't we get an opera house, a gambling den, a fighting pit or some other form of entertainment?

 

 

Except they're not going to just have a brothel in a game for the sole purpose of utilizing its services. At least some quests are going to involve a trip to the brothel.

 

 

You would be surprised to hear that brothels usually serve a a dual function in places where they existed. On one hand they were there to give sexual services in exchange for money. On the other hand, they were there to be used for espionage and spying. History is replete with how cunning people use prostitution as way to get information out of people, especially the rich and the powerful.

 

Now it would be nice if the Inquisition can do something like this with a brothel in DA:I. It would be oustandingly awesome but I don't think we will have it. 

[Elhanan]

You would be surprised to hear that brothels usually serve a a dual function in places where they existed. On one hand they were there to give sexual services in exchange for money. On the other hand, they were there to be used for espionage and spying. History is replete with how cunning people use prostitution as way to get information out of people, especially the rich and the powerful.
 
Now it would be nice if the Inquisition can do something like this with a brothel in DA:I. It would be oustandingly awesome but I don't think we will have it.

While quite accurate and biblical, it is hardly necessary to add such a location for these purposes. Same could and has been done with taverns, Inns, etc; anywhere that sexual attraction can be found.

[Schreckstoff]

You would be surprised to hear that brothels usually serve a a dual function in places where they existed. On one hand they were there to give sexual services in exchange for money. On the other hand, they were there to be used for espionage and spying. History is replete with how cunning people use prostitution as way to get information out of people, especially the rich and the powerful.

 

Now it would be nice if the Inquisition can do something like this with a brothel in DA:I. It would be oustandingly awesome but I don't think we will have it. 

The reason prostitution was even tolerated during the middle ages was that sexually deprived people would use their services instead of  

assaulting someone.

While quite accurate and biblical, it is hardly necessary to add such a location for these purposes. Same could and has been done with taverns, Inns, etc; anywhere that sexual attraction can be found.

A brothel is more for the protection of prostitutes, like a guild.

[MrMrPendragon]

Amusingly enough, subtlety is a function of adults, and "big red arrows" are the function of child's stories.

 

Jesus, alright, Dragon Age is the darker one. My bad. Are we good?

 

And concerning my previous post regarding the whole "it's more supernatural here than on that game" I just meant the plot. Witcher was about civil war and neutrality while Witcher 2 was about regicide and war. The whole magical aspect revolves around a central storyline that is not inherently "fantasy". Except maybe the whole Wild Hunt bit.