43 réponses à ce sujet

[Inprea]

I don't recall ever seeing a mage from the Imperium become an abomination outside of the codex. It seems a little strange to me. Here you have the supposedly evil mages, using blood magic freely, summoning undead, commanding shades and I don't recall them ever turning into an abomination. Even when they realize that they're about to die they die as humans rather then monsters.

 

The mages I do recall turning into abominations tend to be circle mages that either bit off more then they could chew or young and inexperienced.

 

Still, why doesn't the evil mage who realizes he's about to die ever just give in and go all out? It's not like they're in their home land after all.

 

I'm also a little perplexed by why the Imperium doesn't use weak mages as living bombs instead of killing them. I'm thinking of something similar to the manga Claymore. In claymore human soldiers are implanted with certain organs from a monster race. This gives them super human abilities that makes them quite useful on the battle field. However, their primary purpose is to fight deep into enemy lines and then let the monster flesh take over transforming them into a horrible monster. The goal being that they'll die fighting and take a lot of the enemy with them. Naturally you have to bash someone over the head a few times to get them to go along with this kind of plan but it was apparently a very effective weapon. Unless the person survived and came back. Then things got messy.

 

Couldn't the Imperium do the same with weak mages though or even mundanes? You could use blood magic to influence their mind and we've seen magic can influences demons to some extent. If an abomination is indeed powerful enough to burn a city to the ground it seems like it'd be worth the cost of a few soldiers.

[Daerog]

We tend to see other groups more often than Tevinter mages. However, they are not immune to possession, they probably do have abominations just like the Dalish and other mages, but they have no need to advertise that to the rest of Thedas. Most mages don't become abominations, even under threat of death. People who have actually witnessed a possession/abomination are also very rare. I would credit that to the amount of regulation of magic going on in Thedas.

 

If Tevinter does do that, doing super-battle-mode experiments on slaves and such, the only enemy to use it on is the Qunari in the north, so we haven't been able to witness that and they have no need to advertise that to the rest of Thedas. Qunari wouldn't care to advertise that either.

[Hellion Rex]

I think that perhaps the Tevinter circles are better equipped/more knowledgeable about abominations. Given how powerful their mages are, I'd assume the Circles in Tevinter can quickly put down anybody who would turn. That being said, the only notable abominations we hear about are some of the most foul ever encountered.

[Maria Caliban]

Does making someone an abomination and sending them to Tevinter count?

[Hellion Rex]

Does making someone an abomination and sending them to Tevinter count?

I don't think it does, Lady Maria.

[X Equestris]

Well, in fairness, we don't see nearly as many Tevinter mages as we do Circle mages and apostates. Also, the Tevinter have way more experience with demons and blood magic than your average Circle Mage. Circle mages and some apostates only ever seem to call on blood magic as a last resort, and their inexperience with it likely leads to an increased risk of possession.

As for implanting demons into weak mages or mundanes, there is the simple fact that you can't guarantee keeping control of the resulting abomination. Such a practice is also perfect fuel for anti-Tevinter propaganda. Many Tevinter citizens follow that country's version of the Chantry, and while it is more liberal in regards to magic, it still doesn't condone the use of demons.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't recall ever seeing a mage from the Imperium become an abomination outside of the codex. It seems a little strange to me. Here you have the supposedly evil mages, using blood magic freely, summoning undead, commanding shades and I don't recall them ever turning into an abomination. Even when they realize that they're about to die they die as humans rather then monsters.

 

The mages I do recall turning into abominations tend to be circle mages that either bit off more then they could chew or young and inexperienced.

 

Still, why doesn't the evil mage who realizes he's about to die ever just give in and go all out? It's not like they're in their home land after all.

 

I'm also a little perplexed by why the Imperium doesn't use weak mages as living bombs instead of killing them. I'm thinking of something similar to the manga Claymore. In claymore human soldiers are implanted with certain organs from a monster race. This gives them super human abilities that makes them quite useful on the battle field. However, their primary purpose is to fight deep into enemy lines and then let the monster flesh take over transforming them into a horrible monster. The goal being that they'll die fighting and take a lot of the enemy with them. Naturally you have to bash someone over the head a few times to get them to go along with this kind of plan but it was apparently a very effective weapon. Unless the person survived and came back. Then things got messy.

 

Couldn't the Imperium do the same with weak mages though or even mundanes? You could use blood magic to influence their mind and we've seen magic can influences demons to some extent. If an abomination is indeed powerful enough to burn a city to the ground it seems like it'd be worth the cost of a few soldiers.

 

We've only seen a handful of Tevinter mages. And even evil blood mage slavers usually prefer not to be possessed by demons. The ones we've seen weren't reckless enough to end up that way in our encounters with them.

[Writ3Wing3r]

I think that perhaps the Tevinter circles are better equipped/more knowledgeable about abominations. Given how powerful their mages are, I'd assume the Circles in Tevinter can quickly put down anybody who would turn. That being said, the only notable abominations we hear about are some of the most foul ever encountered.

 

I doubt that Tevinter mages are any more effective against abominations than other mages. In fact I'm pretty sure abominations are the only reason the Templar order still exists within the black chantry.

[MillKill]

We just haven't seen very many Tevinter mages, so it's no surprise we haven't seen Tevinter abominations. But if we assume that there actually are fewer Tevinter abominations, I suppose a reasonable explanation might be that the weaker and less skilled mages (who are more prone to possession) are all murdered by their stronger rivals.

[Inprea]

So the primary theory is that we haven't seen enough mages from the Imperium. Shame that we can't test it. Well perhaps one day we'll get to visit and find out. I don't see not wanting to die being a very good deterrent though when you're about to die. If you become an abomination at least the person killing you might die as well.

 

As for weaponizing an abomination. You only need to maintain control long enough to sick them on the enemy. Besides the blood mages in Dragon Age 2 seemed to be doing a fine job of controlling the abominations she made and had sneak into the templar ranks.

[X Equestris]

As for weaponizing an abomination. You only need to maintain control long enough to sick them on the enemy. Besides the blood mages in Dragon Age 2 seemed to be doing a fine job of controlling the abominations she made and had sneak into the templar ranks.

And Avernus loses control over the demons he summoned at Soldier's Peak. Control of demons and abominations is a tricky business. Also, as previously mentioned, such a tactic would be abhorred if it were used on anyone besides the Qunari, and even then the Qunari could use it to aid the conversion of locals. Mages turning themselves into abominations when they're about to die is understandable, but Mages turning others into abominations to be used as living weapons probably wouldn't be well received.

[In Exile]

We've only met Magisters so far, who deal with demons and come out (as far as we know) on the winning side of the bargain. Presumably abominations in Tevinter either go horridly wrong within their own holdings experimenting, or otherwise are weaker apprentices/mages. 

[wolfhowwl]

Wasn't there some doofus in the World of Thedas that managed to turn himself into an abomination so hideous that everyone who looked at it stabbed their eyes out?

[Wolfen09]

We just haven't seen very many Tevinter mages, so it's no surprise we haven't seen Tevinter abominations. But if we assume that there actually are fewer Tevinter abominations, I suppose a reasonable explanation might be that the weaker and less skilled mages (who are more prone to possession) are all murdered by their stronger rivals.

 

this^ we've only seen a few mages from tevinter the alienage quest in origins, and fenris's friends....  they used blood magic, but didn't seem like physical abominations.  My guess is, is that the mages of tevinter are as cautious around demons as the other mages in the world are, but they happen to use blood magic....  think of it this way, the tevinter mages are the guys who built their house on the edge of a cliff while the other thedas mages built their house 500 yards from the edge...  the tevinter mages live close to that edge, but do not go over it.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

The OP brings up a good point we've never seen an abomination in Tevinter and at no point in that county's thousands of years of existing have there ever been any reports of abominations in their country at least no to an extend that was note worthy. The truth is Tevinter shows that mages are fully capable of ruling themselves and not becoming victim to demons.

 

The irony is the Chanty system to prevent abominations is the very system that encourages abominations. When you oppress people they will always struggle to be free but if you free them they have far fewer things to struggle against.

[renfrees]

The OP brings up a good point we've never seen an abomination in Tevinter and at no point in that county's thousands of years of existing have there ever been any reports of abominations in their country at least no to an extend that was note worthy. The truth is Tevinter shows that mages are fully capable of ruling themselves and not becoming victim to demons.

 

The irony is the Chanty system to prevent abominations is the very system that encourages abominations. When you oppress people they will always struggle to be free but if you free them they have far fewer things to struggle against.

There are abominations in Tevinter, not to extent of fully corrupted Circle most likely, but there are. The Templars exist in the Imperium and are funded by the Imperial Chantry to put them down.

[Dayze]

Possibly a combination of faith and egotism; unwilling to let something else over-ride their personality plus being believers in Andrasty they want to meet the Maker eventually.

 

Going full on abomination kind of nips that in the bud.

 

Its also possible that having been less oppressed leads them to have a greater faith in the will of the Maker and are less willing to go Abomination than mages who get stuck in the circle and might have their faith on the innate goodness and purpose of the Maker.

[KC_Prototype]

I'd say because Tevinter mages are more knowledgeable when it comes to demons and they know that becoming an abomination basically means the end of yourself so they tend to find other ways of power.

[Incantrix]

Tevinter mages are far more experienced with fade spirits than any circle mage. It's to the point where they easily manipulate both demon and spirit to do their bidding. Most mages destroy themselves dealing with demons, Tevinter mages out smart them. 

[Ieldra]

In-world factors that contribute to the observed tendency:

 

(1) Tevinter mages are more competent with fade spirits because that aspect of magic is suppressed by the Chantry.

(2) Tevinter mages are more confident because they aren't taught to fear their own powers.

 

My main Warden Eorlin Amell has put it this way: "Perhaps it is no wonder that those who are treated as potential monsters in the Circles are more likely to become monsters in the end." For more see my Mage Manifesto (link in sig).

 

An out of world factor that contributes:

 

We have not been to Tevinter, and abominations in Tevinter weren't a topic of any major quest or event in past games.

[Maria Caliban]

If someone writes a mage manifesto, quotes their own character, and sticks a link in their signature, I feel comfortable saying that they're probably so biased that listening to their ideas on mages would just push me to a pro-Templar position.

[Ieldra]

If someone writes a mage manifesto, quotes their own character, and sticks a link in their signature, I feel comfortable saying that they're probably so biased that listening to their ideas on mages would just push me to a pro-Templar position.

Looking over the thread, I observe that I have, in fact, not said anything someone else hasn't said before. And of course I'm biased towards mages. I've always been and have never hidden that. Having said that, the manifesto is roleplaying. There are overlaps between my and my character's positions but they are not identical. The question of this thread is just one of the overlaps.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Pretty much fenris said that abomnations are quite often seen in tevinter or something like that at least.

 

Also someone on forum said that blood mage in tevinter finished as abomnation in WoT.

 

practically i can see a lot abomnations more than anywhere in thedas in tevinter but with tev mindset i doubt that they care about damage that abominations will cause as long they are still alive.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I think it would be tricky. They could use blood magic to control the human, but could they control the spirit/demon once it was inside? Or would it just take control then? Would it do as they wanted once it was away? This seems risky, overall. The demon would not want to complete a suicide mission on their whims. It would have it's own plans.

[Aolbain]

We've seen, like 5 Tevinter mages?