43 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

The OP brings up a good point we've never seen an abomination in Tevinter and at no point in that county's thousands of years of existing have there ever been any reports of abominations in their country at least no to an extend that was note worthy. The truth is Tevinter shows that mages are fully capable of ruling themselves and not becoming victim to demons.

 

The irony is the Chanty system to prevent abominations is the very system that encourages abominations. When you oppress people they will always struggle to be free but if you free them they have far fewer things to struggle against.

Wow.... That was a load of bullshit.... There are PLENTY of referential data about Tevinter Abominations, both in the codex, but also in WoT. Fenris also says that he has seen powerful Abominations, though he doesn't specify where (presumably though from his time in Tevinter).

 

In short, Tevinter does not seem any safer than anywhere else from the threat of Abominations.

[CapivaRasgor]

We also have never seen Antivan and Nevarran abominations... just saying.

But seriously though, the only Tevinter mages we've seen are the ones that happen to be on the top of the Tevinter arcane hierarchy. If I were to bet, it would be on the fact that Tevinter actually have as much of them as the other nations, specially with all of fight for status that the magisters have, there are bound to be those who fall prey to demons if they feel overconfident when making deals with them.

[Inprea]

We also have never seen Antivan and Nevarran abominations... just saying.

But seriously though, the only Tevinter mages we've seen are the ones that happen to be on the top of the Tevinter arcane hierarchy. If I were to bet, it would be on the fact that Tevinter actually have as much of them as the other nations, specially with all of fight for status that the magisters have, there are bound to be those who fall prey to demons if they feel overconfident when making deals with them.

 

Have we seen any Antivian or Nevarran mages? Though if I'm not mistaken wouldn't they be considered circle mages or are you talking about the seers? We have no data as far as they're involved so anything said about them would be speculation. In the case of the Imperium we've seen a few of their mages and can draw some data from that. Of the mages we've seen none have turned into an abomination even when faced with death.

 

The circle mages we've seen haven't maintained such a record.

 

 

Wow.... That was a load of bullshit.... There are PLENTY of referential data about Tevinter Abominations, both in the codex, but also in WoT. Fenris also says that he has seen powerful Abominations, though he doesn't specify where (presumably though from his time in Tevinter).

 

In short, Tevinter does not seem any safer than anywhere else from the threat of Abominations.

 

Define plenty. I remember the codex mentioning one magister that tried to improve himself with a blood ritual and became a horrible abomination. That's the only one that comes to mind though. As for Fenris well we've caught him lieing before and as you said he didn't say where. When someone drops 5-30 rivalry points on you just for being a mage though I don't trust him to be honest about them. Even Anders doesn't auto hate Hawke if she/he has templar training.

[CapivaRasgor]

Have we seen any Antivian or Nevarran mages? Though if I'm not mistaken wouldn't they be considered circle mages or are you talking about the seers? We have no data as far as they're involved so anything said about them would be speculation. In the case of the Imperium we've seen a few of their mages and can draw some data from that. Of the mages we've seen none have turned into an abomination even when faced with death.

The circle mages we've seen haven't maintained such a record.



Define plenty. I remember the codex mentioning one magister that tried to improve himself with a blood ritual and became a horrible abomination. That's the only one that comes to mind though. As for Fenris well we've caught him lieing before and as you said he didn't say where. When someone drops 5-30 rivalry points on you just for being a mage though I don't trust him to be honest about them. Even Anders doesn't auto hate Hawke if she/he has templar training.

Oh, I was making a joke on the fact that we never saw any mage from either Antiva or Nevarra, that wasn't a serious statement

But anyhow, drawing data from the strong part of a group isn't very precise. There is that saying that "we are as strong as our weakest link". The few Tevinter mages we've met were part of the elite, and it can be a bit of a stretch to evaluate all of the mages from Tevinter by the elite's standard

[MisterJB]

The OP brings up a good point we've never seen an abomination in Tevinter and at no point in that county's thousands of years of existing have there ever been any reports of abominations in their country at least no to an extend that was note worthy. The truth is Tevinter shows that mages are fully capable of ruling themselves and not becoming victim to demons.

 

The irony is the Chanty system to prevent abominations is the very system that encourages abominations. When you oppress people they will always struggle to be free but if you free them they have far fewer things to struggle against.

 

Tevinter plays a different role in the Mage narrative in the Dragon Age series. Whereas Circle mages serve as examples of how destructive mages can be and how easily they fall to possession, Tevinter mages are meant to be examples of the dangers magic poses to the government and the consequences of allowing it control. Hence, there isn't that much of a need for Abominations.

It's the same logic that explains why we didn't see any Abominations at Ostagar or Denerim when logic dictates that, being faced with certain death at Darkspawn hands, would push many mages to the arms of demons.

 

Of course, there's also the fact Tevinter culture encourages mages to attempt to control demons because being more powerful than those above you is a requirement for advancement.

Logically, those who suceed are less likely to become Abominations and those are the ones we encounter in Ferelden and Kirkwall, the accomplished mages. Those who fail become Abominations and are slain and, naturally, we won't meet them outside of Tevinter.

 

The Circle system is not more likely to encourage Abominations than a system where you're supposed to contact demons if you wish to survive. At least, in the Circle, these threats will be contained.

[Urazz]

Yeah, I gather that abominations really aren't that much of a threat in Tevinter because the mages themselves can fight them there along with the Templars (even though the Templars have no real power in Tevinter).

[Inprea]

Oh, I was making a joke on the fact that we never saw any mage from either Antiva or Nevarra, that wasn't a serious statement

But anyhow, drawing data from the strong part of a group isn't very precise. There is that saying that "we are as strong as our weakest link". The few Tevinter mages we've met were part of the elite, and it can be a bit of a stretch to evaluate all of the mages from Tevinter by the elite's standard

 

I agree that it's good to have as large of a sample size as possible to avoid a sampling bias. That said you work with the sample size you've got. For the moment the data we know for certain, rather then relying on the codex which is fallible by design, shows the Imperium mages do a much better job of not turning into abomination then circle mages. Even with the codex it seems the Imperium mages due a much better job of retaining control of themselves even upon death.

[The Baconer]

We've never heard of a Saarebas going abomination either, but...

[TheKomandorShepard]

We've never heard of a Saarebas going abomination either, but...

To be honest i think that qunari have least amount of abomnations or at least minimum damage because of them thanks to their measures.Still one of their mages tried to destroy world by summoning the army of demons so for me it is better kill them off if you want safety.

[fhs33721]

We've never heard of a Saarebas going abomination either, but...

Because if a demon actually managed to poesess a Saarebas he would most likely think:

"Yes finally I have crossed the veil and now all mortals shall bow down in... Wait. What the hell am I wearing? These chains look totally stupid. Is that a oversized dog collar? Serouisly? They cut the tongue of this meatsuit out? I can't even boast about my surpreme power like this. Worst posession ever. You know what, this is just too dumb for me. I'm out of here. I'll just go back to the fade and wait for a better opportunity. Stupid oxmen!"

[Gervaise]

The reason the Qunari treat their mages as they do is precisely because they have witnessed abominations.   This is why they are said to pity mages because of the burden of being born that way and because possession is the ultimate "loss of self".    

[Maria Caliban]

Even if mages didn't become abominations, the qunari would treat their mages that way.

Mages are outside the Qun.

[EmperorSahlertz]

We've never heard of a Saarebas going abomination either, but...

There actually is a quest in DA2 where you have to hunt down a Saarebas who has become possessed and killed his Karataam.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Even if mages didn't become abominations, the qunari would treat their mages that way.

Mages are outside the Qun.

Doubtful.

[fhs33721]

There actually is a quest in DA2 where you have to hunt down a Saarebas who has become possessed and killed his Karataam.

Do you mean the quest with the missing patrol? I can't remember there ever being a mention of a Saarebas being responsible. There are just a bunch of dead qunari and a lot of Shades hovering in the area if I'm remembering that correct. Nothing indicates that a Saarebas was at fault.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Do you mean the quest with the missing patrol? I can't remember there ever being a mention of a Saarebas being responsible. There are just a bunch of dead qunari and a lot of Shades hovering in the area if I'm remembering that correct. Nothing indicates that a Saarebas was at fault.

They did say it was a dead Karataam, which is the unit following an Arvaarad around with his Saarebas.

[fhs33721]

They did say it was a dead Karataam, which is the unit following an Arvaarad around with his Saarebas.

Again this does not automatically mean that the Saarebas turned into an abomination. There are demons spawning all over the countryside around Kirkwall for multiple reasons. An incident involving a sternly guarded qunari mage that is controlled by golem-like control rods seems to be one of the least likely for me.

[Dayze]

Tevinter plays a different role in the Mage narrative in the Dragon Age series. Whereas Circle mages serve as examples of how destructive mages can be and how easily they fall to possession, Tevinter mages are meant to be examples of the dangers magic poses to the government and the consequences of allowing it control. Hence, there isn't that much of a need for Abominations.

It's the same logic that explains why we didn't see any Abominations at Ostagar or Denerim when logic dictates that, being faced with certain death at Darkspawn hands, would push many mages to the arms of demons.

 

Of course, there's also the fact Tevinter culture encourages mages to attempt to control demons because being more powerful than those above you is a requirement for advancement.

Logically, those who suceed are less likely to become Abominations and those are the ones we encounter in Ferelden and Kirkwall, the accomplished mages. Those who fail become Abominations and are slain and, naturally, we won't meet them outside of Tevinter.

 

The Circle system is not more likely to encourage Abominations than a system where you're supposed to contact demons if you wish to survive. At least, in the Circle, these threats will be contained.

 

 

Actually; in a system that encourages the control and contact and the gathering of information about demons vs one that tries to refrain from them altogether I could imagine them coming up with several items or spells that gives them complete control over a demon.

 

Versus a system where only the rare unsupervised and somewhat reckless mage might attempt those kinds of studies or learn that kind of knowledge.

 

Basically one has a whole system based "on" controlling demons and the other doesn't.

[MisterJB]

Actually; in a system that encourages the control and contact and the gathering of information about demons vs one that tries to refrain from them altogether I could imagine them coming up with several items or spells that gives them complete control over a demon.

 

Versus a system where only the rare unsupervised and somewhat reckless mage might attempt those kinds of studies or learn that kind of knowledge.

 

Basically one has a whole system based "on" controlling demons and the other doesn't.

True. Altough, I'd say a system that attempts to learn enough to protect its charges is safer than one that focuses on controlling demons and hoping they won't ever escape the leash.