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[The Elder King]

Except every time this is bought up, the 'resistance' becomes more and more hollow with each dev reply.

What do you mean with 'resistance'?

[LobselVith8]

Thats why I have my doubts about buying the game. I don´t want to support such a slave system as the chantry/circle is, even in pixel world.

 

Given the elven option being Dalish, I doubt the player will be forced to support the Chantry. An Andrastian elf would have made more sense if that was the case. The Vashoth and Dwarven options may be neutral, in comparison, but neither one necessitates that the protagonist would want to save or help the Chantry if the player has no inclination to do so. The developers seem to be well aware that some people dislike the Chantry, which is why multiple developers went out of their way to reassure players that the Inquisitor isn't working for the Chantry, that the protagonist doesn't have to like the Chantry, and that the Inquisitor "isn't a puppet of the church".

[The Elder King]

Given the elven option being Dalish, I doubt the player will be forced to support the Chantry. An Andrastian elf would have made more sense if that was the case. The Vashoth and Dwarven options may be neutral, in comparison, but neither one necessitates that the protagonist would want to save or help the Chantry if the player has no inclination to do so. The developers seem to be well aware that some people dislike the Chantry, which is why multiple developers went out of their way to reassure players that the Inquisitor isn't working for the Chantry, that the protagonist doesn't have to like the Chantry, and that the Inquisitor "isn't a puppet of the church".

I understand why people would be concerned though. Plus, for some not supporting the Chantry isn't enough. They want to destroy it.

[Gtdef]

Well the devs were pretty clear that Inquisition and Chantry are separate things. But yea perhaps the decisions involved will have to do with the Chantry more than they should and force the other races into a rabbit hole.

 

Personally I doubt it that's the case, although it's safe to assume that Chantry will be a part of the game, and a pretty big one.

[9TailsFox]

I understand why people would be concerned though. Plus, for some not supporting the Chantry isn't enough. They want to destroy it.

To have option would be nice but I doubt we have huge world changing decisions. In my dwarf play-through it would be nice to destroy chantry and build giant statue with Varric giving bro fist.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I understand why people would be concerned though. Plus, for some not supporting the Chantry isn't enough. They want to destroy it.

Considering that game will rely heavily on political conflicts and views i don't see desire oppose/destroy chantry as something bad same for desire support them.Pretty much same for every other group.

 

My main problem is that game doesn't allow shape organization to your views for example pro-mage/anti-chantry will have massive problem with organization that have members that have opposite views especially they are high-rank members of Inquisition.Pro mages may have problem with members like cullen and leliana (at least in demo scenario) and possible cassandra.For pro-templars and pro-chantry situation seems as far good as long they won't force us peoples with opposite views.

 

Worst part we can't do anything about that since we can't remove/change advisors (or at least bio didn't said anything about that) so pretty much you stuck with peoples that have opposite views  it is begging for betrayal.Best option would be if advisors were neutral as Josephine seems to be now.  

[Mornmagor]

You guys have probably never met a real fanatic.

 

Lelianna is religious not a fanatic. Fanatics only ever speak of religion, Lelianna in Origins spoke of other things and took pleasure in other things.

 

She doesn't seem like a fanatic now either. She just seems colder and more mature.

 

Saying something religious doesn't make you a mindless fanatic. There's a huge difference between someone who follows a religion and is dedicated to it and a fanatic who literally only lives for their religion and will never do anything outside of their religious belief.

 

Fanatics are single minded and will respond aggressively to criticism of religion. Lelianna in Origins was open to discussion of religion and never became aggressive if you or Morrigan attacked her belief or called her crazy for her vision.

 

If anything, I want a more religious character than Lelianna. I want to build a team of ultra religious badasses in Inquisition who always shout "for the Maker!" or so such in battle.

 

Edit:

 

Looks like someone beat me to it.

 

Technically, a fanatic is not someone that only talks about one thing(religion).

 

A fanatic is someone, that, about a specific subject, displays very strict standards and little tolerance for contrary ideas or opinions.

 

Now, if Leliana is a fanatic or not, we don't know, in Inquisition. I'll have to speak with her first and see how she views different opinions about what she believes in.

 

Now, saying that, she could very well have become a fanatic, because of what she has been through. People's views can be jaded pretty easily, when emotions come into play, especially strong ones like hatred.

 

If she is distrustful of Mages anyway, and is religious, a friend of the Divine even, and all that happens, probably because of Mages that might oppose her belief...

 

Well i don't know, i don't think she qualifies as a fanatic, but i don't have trouble imagining her as one in Inquisition.

 

Which makes curious about our dialogues, if the Inquisitor displays a strict or non tolerant stance towards the Chantry.

 

Will she still be open i wonder? And what if out Inquisitor is also a Mage?

 

This game is gonna be fun, i think

[phantomrachie]

I meant "out of character" in the sense that I don't think it will be typical of how she will generally be in the game, because of the events at the start of the demo.

 

Well we don't know the circumstances behind her attitude in the demo.

 

Does her attitude depend on her relationship with the Inquisitor? or on decisions that the Inquisitor has made?

 

Is this the first mission we send her on, so is she still recovering from the shock of the possible death of the Divine? 

 

There are too many unknowns to make a judgment like that

[The Elder King]

Well we don't know the circumstances behind her attitude in the demo.
 
Does her attitude depend on her relationship with the Inquisitor? or on decisions that the Inquisitor has made?
 
Is this the first mission we send her on, so is she still recovering from the shock of the possible death of the Divine? 
 
There are too many unknowns to make a judgment like that

Surely not the first mission. It was stated to be a quest that opens up after a series of branching choices in the mage templar war plot.

[Killdren88]

Which is odd when I told Leliana she didn't need the Maker to be happy...if it turns out that she is a fanatic guess that character arc was pointless.

[The Elder King]

Which is odd when I told Leliana she didn't need the Maker to be happy...guess that character arc was pointless.

Saying that to Leliana didn't mean she was abandoning the Maker even back then. She remained deeply faithful no matter what you said in DAO.

[Fast Jimmy]

Oh, silly me... this didn't say "Leliana fanFIC."

[phantomrachie]

Surely not the first mission. It was stated to be a quest that opens up after a series of branching choices in the mage templar war plot.

 

I don't know how the missions that you send advisors on work, perhaps its the first mission you send Leliana on but a mission late in the game.

 

Realistically though its probably not the first time you send Leliana out to do something I was just trying to highlight that we don't have a lot of context for her behaviour in the demo.

[SwobyJ]

um Miranda wasn't a zealot... Cerberus was a means to an end.

 

Zealot. Loyalist. Barely any difference....sometimes. Loyalists can just be more mannered about it; maybe know when to bend their attitudes once in a while, as long as it still serves. They also may not be so crazy defensive and offensive about their beliefs, but instead just be damn sure that they need to act in service of these beliefs.

 

Miranda was properly defined by Bioware as a Loyalist.

Its only through the adventures with Shepard (even if you just have her witness them from more of a distance) that she sees another way and another symbol and/or person to follow (as long as she lives).

Through her sister (Loyalty Mission), you can get that result much earlier, clearly, and strongly. It isn't just Miranda and Shepard anymore, but Miranda, Shepard, Miranda's family, and the Suicide Mission team.

Through the Romance story, you can get that more intensely. Miranda and Shepard become (hopefully) inseparable, regardless of geographic or any other kind of distance. Cerberus be especially damned at this point.

 

Leliana is also a Chantry Loyalist, at least in attitude, and at least by DA:I. This is alright. I really wouldn't be surprised if you can affirm her in this, or guide her another way. Whatever the case, she's always had bias - even if usually a tempered one - towards the Chantry and its dogma. There's just the heretic and happily violent parts of her that especially keep her from being a zealot (yes I know zealots can be violent, but I'm talking about Leliana always feeling the call of the bard's life), as well as that really good core to her that she keeps wanting to preserve and expose to the world when she feels safe to.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Thats why I have my doubts about buying the game. I don´t want to support such a slave system as the chantry/circle is, even in pixel world.

The circle isn't slavery, what Tevinter does is real slavery the circle mages have it well off having a roof, food & education while a normal commoner is uneducated & starves if they can't find work

[BloodyTalon]

A link for those debating the meaning of the word.

http://dictionary.re.../browse/fanatic

[Eternal Phoenix]

Technically, a fanatic is not someone that only talks about one thing(religion).

 

A fanatic is someone, that, about a specific subject, displays very strict standards and little tolerance for contrary ideas or opinions.

 

Now, if Leliana is a fanatic or not, we don't know, in Inquisition. I'll have to speak with her first and see how she views different opinions about what she believes in.

 

Now, saying that, she could very well have become a fanatic, because of what she has been through. People's views can be jaded pretty easily, when emotions come into play, especially strong ones like hatred.

 

If she is distrustful of Mages anyway, and is religious, a friend of the Divine even, and all that happens, probably because of Mages that might oppose her belief...

 

Well i don't know, i don't think she qualifies as a fanatic, but i don't have trouble imagining her as one in Inquisition.

 

Which makes curious about our dialogues, if the Inquisitor displays a strict or non tolerant stance towards the Chantry.

 

Will she still be open i wonder? And what if out Inquisitor is also a Mage?

 

This game is gonna be fun, i think

 

You're right. You can have fanatics of any ideology, system or belief and it isn't limited to religion. I misspoke. What I meant to say then was that Lelianna was never a religious fanatic in Origins.

 

She could be a fanatic in Inquisition but based on what we've seen, she just seems to be more mature and stone-hearted. Her hatred of mages looks like it's arisen not from her religion (as she had no quarrel reconciling the two beforehand) but rather from what she's seen mages do over the years.

 

Meanwhile a magic rift has opened in the sky and is pouring out demons. Given this, I think most people in Inquisition will be opposed to mages and will probably blame them for the problem.

[deuce985]

My Warden hardened her and revealed her true nature.

[BloodyTalon]

My Warden hardened her and revealed her true nature.

Which is why she makes a good left hand of the divine, the marker made the world danagerous after all or something along those lines if I recall.

[Deflagratio]

When has Leliana NOT been a religious fanatic? 

 

A very good point. I think now she's more a representation of what we most closely associate with the word "Inquisition" being a dogmatic organization of systematic persecution.

[deuce985]

Which is why she makes a good left hand of the divine, the marker made the world danagerous after all or something along those lines if I recall.

 

In DAO she starts out with blinders over her eyes. Nothing wrong with helping someone find their identity and judging how she seems in DAI, she's exactly how I imagined her to be in this situation. Better to be awake than asleep.

[theflyingzamboni]

Only for the threesome  

You only had a threesome with her?

 

[BloodyTalon]

In DAO she starts out with blinders over her eyes. Nothing wrong with helping someone find their identity and judging how she seems in DAI, she's exactly how I imagined her to be in this situation. Better to be awake than asleep.

Also given the divine was the same person that saved her when she first fled, that would only increase how she turned more dark.

Deovtion to the marker and to a person can cause a zealot side to come out fully.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Leliana is a born again religious zealot, fanatic and loyalist.

 

She has been that way since DA:O.

 

With the weakening of the Chantry, possible death of the Divine, one can assume that she will only get more fanatic and zealous, not more logical and reasonable. 

[DarkKnightHolmes]

If she was a Religious fanatic,I'm sure she'd be killing every Qunari we see for daring to have a different belief system and yet Sten seems to be doing fine and without any arrow's stuck in them from Leliana.