204 réponses à ce sujet

[The Hierophant]

@The Hierophant: Do you have a job?

Yes. But i'm not seeing your point as i'm not the irl equivalent of a fantasy Pope's faithful hatchet man?

*edit* did not sound right.

[Maeshone]

There is no reason why she can't be a Sister while serving as the Left Hand of the Divine. 

 

And no, she never officially leaves her Sisterhood behind. 

There's also no reason why she would still be a Sister, as left hand of the Divine is quite the step up in terms of position, but still, ostensibly, within the same organisation.

 

Besides, she explicitly states her dislike of the Chantry's beliefs in DA:O. I really don't see how any of this is any indication that she's a fanatic Chantry zealot. I get that people want to find reasons to dislike her, Cassandra and Cullen, but it's been 3 years since the last time we saw those characters. I'm pretty sure people can change in that time, especially with the world breaking.

[DarthLaxian]

LOL at people thinking Cassandra and Leliana are religious fanatics. 

 

Why?

 

Cassy is a believer (a strong believer IMO - you don't become elevated to seeker (they are chosen from templar ranks for excellence, dedication and loyalty after all) by not believing) she might have started (or start as it goes) after the destruction at the peace conference, but going against the chantry might still not be such a good idea with her present...oh, and she hates mages (she does not even really trust those that help her like the one in "Dawn of the Seeker") and becomes one of the divines most trusted (such positions don't go to people who have shaky believes)...hell, she does not even pressure the divine into honoring the mages who risked their lives on her behalf, too (no, they get ignored, while she becomes more or less the divines other favourite (next to Leliana))

 

As for Leliana:

 

She is a follower (from Lady Cecili to Marjolain (spelling?), the warden and then the divine), she does not do too well on her own and she is a devout believer (she might not hate mages, like Cassy does, but otherwise she is a staunch follower of the chantry...defiling the ashes anyone? ) and she kills for her religion...come on, if that's not a Zealot at least (maybe she can temper her believe...after all, she does not kill people left and right, but she still is a little fanatic...maybe that changes after the conference, too - it's never to late to start thinking for yourself after all - but I don't think so...her fate is part of her character...)

 

greetings LAX

[Hanako Ikezawa]

There's also no reason why she would still be a Sister, as left hand of the Divine is quite the step up in terms of position, but still, ostensibly, within the same organisation.

 

Besides, she explicitly states her dislike of the Chantry's beliefs in DA:O. I really don't see how any of this is any indication that she's a fanatic Chantry zealot. I get that people want to find reasons to dislike her, Cassandra and Cullen, but it's been 3 years since the last time we saw those characters. I'm pretty sure people can change in that time, especially with the world breaking.

She'd still be a Sister though. To use business as an example, you start as an employee. Eventually you move up to executive, but you are still an employee. 

 

I don't think she is a zealot or a fanatic. I think she is a loyal Chantry follower. And there is nothing wrong with that. 

[The Elder King]

Cassandra doesn't hate mages at the end of the anime.

[The Hierophant]

Cassandra doesn't hate mages at the end of the anime.

I'd pity them too. Those guys in that film didn't give a damn. They fought with their staves instead of using magic.

That's like a hobo tossing rocks at an armored truck kind of crazy.

[Maeshone]

She'd still be a Sister though. To use business as an example, you start as an employee. Eventually you move up to executive, but you are still an employee. 

 

I don't think she is a zealot or a fanatic. I think she is a loyal Chantry follower. And there is nothing wrong with that. 

Then I apologize, I just assumed you did 

 

 

Why?

 

Cassy is a believer (a strong believer IMO - you don't become elevated to seeker (they are chosen from templar ranks for excellence, dedication and loyalty after all) by not believing) she might have started (or start as it goes) after the destruction at the peace conference, but going against the chantry might still not be such a good idea with her present...oh, and she hates mages (she does not even really trust those that help her like the one in "Dawn of the Seeker") and becomes one of the divines most trusted (such positions don't go to people who have shaky believes)...hell, she does not even pressure the divine into honoring the mages who risked their lives on her behalf, too (no, they get ignored, while she becomes more or less the divines other favourite (next to Leliana))

 

As for Leliana:

 

She is a follower (from Lady Cecili to Marjolain (spelling?), the warden and then the divine), she does not do too well on her own and she is a devout believer (she might not hate mages, like Cassy does, but otherwise she is a staunch follower of the chantry...defiling the ashes anyone? ) and she kills for her religion...come on, if that's not a Zealot at least (maybe she can temper her believe...after all, she does not kill people left and right, but she still is a little fanatic...maybe that changes after the conference, too - it's never to late to start thinking for yourself after all - but I don't think so...her fate is part of her character...)

 

greetings LAX

There's  no evidence that Cassandra hates mages. And they both worked for Divine Justinia V, who tried to improve the situation for mages throughout Thedas. I really don't think that sounds like mage-hate at all. She distrusts mages at the start of Dawn of the Seeker, but her entire character arc in that movie was her getting over that distrust.

 

As for Leliana, she is unflinchingly loyal to one of her oldest friends, who just happens to be the current Divine. She expresses a dislike for the Chantry's beliefs, stating a preference for her own thoughs about the Maker. She's a devout Andrastian, not necessarly a Chantryist.

 

Neither of these characters is a fanatic or a zealot. Mother Petrice was a fanatic and a zealot.

[FiveThreeTen]

Why?

 

Cassy is a believer (a strong believer IMO - you don't become elevated to seeker (they are chosen from templar ranks for excellence, dedication and loyalty after all) by not believing) she might have started (or start as it goes) after the destruction at the peace conference, but going against the chantry might still not be such a good idea with her present...oh, and she hates mages (she does not even really trust those that help her like the one in "Dawn of the Seeker") and becomes one of the divines most trusted (such positions don't go to people who have shaky believes)...hell, she does not even pressure the divine into honoring the mages who risked their lives on her behalf, too (no, they get ignored, while she becomes more or less the divines other favourite (next to Leliana))

 

As for Leliana:

 

She is a follower (from Lady Cecili to Marjolain (spelling?), the warden and then the divine), she does not do too well on her own and she is a devout believer (she might not hate mages, like Cassy does, but otherwise she is a staunch follower of the chantry...defiling the ashes anyone? ) and she kills for her religion...come on, if that's not a Zealot at least (maybe she can temper her believe...after all, she does not kill people left and right, but she still is a little fanatic...maybe that changes after the conference, too - it's never to late to start thinking for yourself after all - but I don't think so...her fate is part of her character...)

 

greetings LAX

 

Why are people surprised that someone will stand/fight for what they believe in or to protect their own interests and call it "being a fanatic"?

 

Granted, we were given examples of Chantry people advocating solutions with no compromise (Meredith, Lambert to an extent) and they can be qualified as fanatics but Leliana?

 

For what we have seen of Cassandra, she seems aware that the world doesn't revolve around the Chantry belief. That doesn't erase the fact that the Chantry is a proselytic religion (like the Qun) and that she is one of its enforcers. But in my mind, I equate fanaticism with borderline psychopathy, someone who isn't even willing to acknowledge that there are different point of views, and I don't see that at all in these two characters.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Leliana's whole relationship and role as being the Divine's Left ****** Hand is the same amirite?

 

Pretty much, Justina saved Leliana's life and Duncan saved the Warden characters life. Justina tells Leliana what to do and Duncan told us what to do.

[HiroVoid]

Pretty much, Justina saved Leliana's life and Duncan saved the Warden characters life. Justina tells Leliana what to do and Duncan told us what to do.

To be fair, Duncan had to threaten to drag my Dalish Elf to get him to go with him.

[DaySeeker]

Pretty much, Justina saved Leliana's life and Duncan saved the Warden characters life. Justina tells Leliana what to do and Duncan told us what to do.

 

Weak.  Give me some evidence of fanatacism.  Justina is not a religious zealot, she is secular in her rulings.  Leliana is nobody's puppet; she trusted Marjorline, and when she sensed trouble did her best to do right.  Cassandra does not hate mages, in fact, she may have fallen in love with one.  This thread is weird and baseless.

[The Hierophant]

Pretty much, Justina saved Leliana's life and Duncan saved the Warden characters life. Justina tells Leliana what to do and Duncan told us what to do.

meh. He did save my Amell Warden from boredom though. Greagoire was mad but Irving was like relax the kid's cool.

But thank god the writers didn't railroad the pc into performing wetworks for Duncan.

Duncan: "and for your unwavering loyalty, you shall be dubbed my Left Hand."

Hiero's Warden: "Nope. I've seen what you do with your left hand. nasty."

[frylock23]

In all fairness, how many people in high positions of power don't have someone who does their dirty work? It's not like they can go out and do it themselves. And Duncan doesn't qualify because it seems to me that Gray Wardens did quite enough of their own dirty work ... they WERE their own dirty work.

[Afro_Explosion]

If she was a fanatic she'd be doing a one woman exalted march naked screaming for the maker to smite her enemies.

[Rykn]

I feel like you can be devout and not be a Zealot/Fanatic. I also like to think Leliana fulfilled that in dragon age origins at least. People change I suppose, but can't we give her the benefit of the doubt?

[The Hierophant]

If she was a fanatic she'd be doing a one woman exalted march naked screaming for the maker to smite her enemies.

As of now this is an unconfirmed rumor regarding one of the possible fates of Leliana in one of DAI's endings.

[General TSAR]

As for Leliana:

 

She is a follower (from Lady Cecili to Marjolain (spelling?), the warden and then the divine), she does not do too well on her own and she is a devout believer (she might not hate mages, like Cassy does, but otherwise she is a staunch follower of the chantry...defiling the ashes anyone? ) and she kills for her religion...come on, if that's not a Zealot at least (maybe she can temper her believe...after all, she does not kill people left and right, but she still is a little fanatic...maybe that changes after the conference, too - it's never to late to start thinking for yourself after all - but I don't think so...her fate is part of her character...)

 

greetings LAX

Where the hell did you get she kills for her religion from? 

 

Are you one of those people who believes firm religious belief equates to fanaticism?

[Medhia_Nox]

@The Hierophant:  But you do what your boss says yeah?

[Spectre Impersonator]

I was wondering what became of Leliana? From the marketing materials so far she seems unapologetic, harsh, cold and religious fanatic. Its the vibe I'm getting from the character.

What changed her? 

Sounds like she got the Liara treatment. Bioware certainly backtracked on that one, not only in the LotSB DLC but even in ME3. Why make the same mistake twice?

 

Does it really matter either way? Because unlike Mass Effect, Dragon Age does not continue the stories of individuals the player creates, only those created by Bioware. So Leliana is bound to be whatever they need her to be no matter how we treated her or who she was in Dragon Age Origins.

 

One way or another, she will have moved on from the Warden, which is a bit cheap to me. Why not just create a new character if you're going to change most things about them? Oh right, because you can get fans excited on the basis of recognition.

[The Hierophant]

@ Medhia_Nox - Of course, but only if it's not against company protocol, regulations, state law etc. I'm not laundering, stealing or falsifying info for nobody.

Plus Leliana's profession lacks the above mentioned, while her blind defense of Justinia's conduct/inaction from Celene's criticisms in TME leads me to believe that she's a heavily biased tool.

As for the topic it seems like her loyalty and devotion is tied more with Justinia than the Chantry as a whole.

[9TailsFox]

Sounds like she got the Liara treatment. Bioware certainly backtracked on that one, not only in the LotSB DLC but even in ME3. Why make the same mistake twice?

 

Does it really matter either way? Because unlike Mass Effect, Dragon Age does not continue the stories of individuals the player creates, only those created by Bioware. So Leliana is bound to be whatever they need her to be no matter how we treated her or who she was in Dragon Age Origins.

 

One way or another, she will have moved on from the Warden, which is a bit cheap to me. Why not just create a new character if you're going to change most things about them? Oh right, because you can get fans excited on the basis of recognition.

This. We know character so it means it's good. I think it was Mike Laidlow in one of demo said "returning fan favourites" and there was topic is Cullen fan service? And in DA Inquisition we have Returning characters Varric, Cullen, Leliana, Cassandra, Cole(from book), I have no doubt Bioware will make when important for story, but most important(or even only) reason they are in game is ,they are fans favourite. so we have 3 returning companions, and 6 new. and we have 2 returning advisers and only 1 new. is ratio to big, I don't know it's mater of opinion if you like character it's not problem but if not, it is.

 

And what bother me. Mark Darrah stressed that we not forced to support chantry. But it's not easy to believe it then at least 2/3 advisers are chantry supporter and Josephine is Leliana friend. and from looks of it we can't replace them, why can't we fire Leliana and make Varric spy network leader. And Cullen can be easy replaced by Iron bull even if he have only one tactic, charge, he still leader of mercenary bad.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Then I apologize, I just assumed you did 

No problem.  

[TheKomandorShepard]

Where the hell did you get she kills for her religion from? 

 

Are you one of those people who believes firm religious belief equates to fanaticism?

Being left hand of divine? Doing dirty work for chantry? As i said if you walk to the church and pray it doesn't make you fanatic if you run at night and kill for religion and church pretty much i would argue.

 

Pretty much if i was doing what she does for allah society would declare me a fanatic.

[9TailsFox]

Where the hell did you get she kills for her religion from? 

 

Are you one of those people who believes firm religious belief equates to fanaticism?

She just kill 2 mages. She was sent to decide if it is necessary to send army to Kirkwall. She is not lovely sister who just pray. She divine right hand, secret agent/assassin.

Spoiler

[Maria Caliban]

As for the topic i seems like her loyalty and devotion is tied more with Justinia than the Chantry as a whole.

This. Leliana finds charismatic individuals and kills people for them.

It's scary in its own right, but it's not fanatical devotion to a religion.