49 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Personally, I'm concerned as well.

I fear Halamshiral will be the only city we'll visit.

[Elhanan]

Val Royeuax has been built up in the stories a bit much, and would prefer my imagination to handle this one. Still, I would not mind seeing one city of size, though I prefer small venues generally.

[Aaleel]

While I'm somewhat pessimistic about a lot of things I've seen and heard about the game so far. I know when Bioware was talking about the differences between the old gen and new gen versions of the game one they talked about was the amount of NPCs in cities and towns. So I figure they'll be a large city in the game.

I don't really care about the size of the cities and towns, but more so them not being static and dead like in last DA games. The excuse was always the dated engine, so one of the things I'll be looking for in reviews after the game is released is how these types or areas were.

[Elhanan]

I do not mind if the crowds are static or not; simply wish them to get out of my way.

And if the Companion AI can fix the universal Murphey's Law bug that implements if loot is found nearby, your follower will be standing on it, that would be even better.

[Das Tentakel]

While I'm somewhat pessimistic about a lot of things I've seen and heard about the game so far. I know when Bioware was talking about the differences between the old gen and new gen versions of the game one they talked about was the amount of NPCs in cities and towns. So I figure they'll be a large city in the game.

That may just as well refer to places like Redcliffe, rather than actual cities. If you look at the demo videos, there were quite a few NPC's/extras in Redcliffe, including a few mobile ones. In fact, it looked as if there were significantly more than you would expect based on the number of (visible) residential homes. Refugees?

Anyway, even if there are just a few villages in DA:I, chances are they will not be that different in terms of size from the villages and 'cities' in Skyrim.

However, size in terms of houses and NPC's / extras alone is not decisive; the layout of the settlement, the presence of monumental architecture, real markets, NPC/extra behaviour etc. are important too.

[dutch_gamer]

While I'm somewhat pessimistic about a lot of things I've seen and heard about the game so far. I know when Bioware was talking about the differences between the old gen and new gen versions of the game one they talked about was the amount of NPCs in cities and towns. So I figure they'll be a large city in the game.

I don't really care about the size of the cities and towns, but more so them not being static and dead like in last DA games. The excuse was always the dated engine, so one of the things I'll be looking for in reviews after the game is released is how these types or areas were.

Rock Paper Scissors, Nathan Grayson commented that the NPCs in DAI seem to be stuck in quick sand. The NPCs are mainly standing in place, hardly even moving at all. And that is exactly what the latest gameplay demo footage showed as well.

 

And we also have the following quote from David Gaider about having to give up something to create busier cities. Based on the latest demo it seems they haven't found a "solution":

 

http://forum.bioware...red/?p=16417890

 

"We've talked about this a lot. Insofar as the AC games go, you have to understand that this is really the entire point of their games and thus the focus of their engine. We also have party members to consider (and the impact of both their memory footprint and pathfinding). All that's to say that, while we could do much busier cities, we'd have to consider what to give up to get it...at least for the moment. I have no idea what optimizations and/or solutions could be coming down the pipe, particularly with regards to the enhanced hardware.

 

Either way, I'd really like to do an AC-style bustling city. At some point. :)"

 

I know some might say, but that is about bustling cities as in the AC franchise instead of just of a little less static cities and towns, but the gameplay demo hasn't exactly shown anything that is different from other Bioware games. Even in screenshots you can see the exact same static NPCs in Halamshiral. A few mobile NPCs doesn't really change that much. I am not entirely sure but wasn't there at least one mobile NPC in the Denerim market in DAO?

[Aaleel]

That may just as well refer to places like Redcliffe, rather than actual cities. If you look at the demo videos, there were quite a few NPC's/extras in Redcliffe, including a few mobile ones. In fact, it looked as if there were significantly more than you would expect based on the number of (visible) residential homes. Refugees?
Anyway, even if there are just a few villages in DA:I, chances are they will not be that different in terms of size from the villages and 'cities' in Skyrim.
However, size in terms of houses and NPC's / extras alone is not decisive; the layout of the settlement, the presence of monumental architecture, real markets, NPC/extra behaviour etc. are important too.

Well that's pretty much what I was saying in my post. I honestly don't care what size the cities are, I just want them to seem like people actually live there, have some life to them.

[Aaleel]

Rock Paper Scissors, Nathan Grayson commented that the NPCs in DAI seem to be stuck in quick sand. The NPCs are mainly standing in place, hardly even moving at all. And that is exactly what the latest gameplay demo footage showed as well.
 
And we also have the following quote from David Gaider about having to give up something to create busier cities. Based on the latest demo it seems they haven't found a "solution":
 
http://forum.bioware...red/?p=16417890
 
"We've talked about this a lot. Insofar as the AC games go, you have to understand that this is really the entire point of their games and thus the focus of their engine. We also have party members to consider (and the impact of both their memory footprint and pathfinding). All that's to say that, while we could do much busier cities, we'd have to consider what to give up to get it...at least for the moment. I have no idea what optimizations and/or solutions could be coming down the pipe, particularly with regards to the enhanced hardware.
 
Either way, I'd really like to do an AC-style bustling city. At some point. :)"
 
I know some might say, but that is about bustling cities as in the AC franchise instead of just of a little less static cities and towns, but the gameplay demo hasn't exactly shown anything that is different from other Bioware games. Even in screenshots you can see the exact same static NPCs in Halamshiral. A few mobile NPCs doesn't really change that much. I am not entirely sure but wasn't there at least one mobile NPC in the Denerim market in DAO?

Well that was disappointing to read. It's kind of sad that Ostagar had the most going of any area to date in a DA game and it was only getting used for that small part of the game. They always said the engine was the problem, then they get a better engine and say well we could use it to make cities better but...

[Elhanan]

Ironically, Skyrim had detailed lives for everyone in their cities. Yet mods were made that added warm bodies that did little for interaction; simply placed to be there in the world. When they began to ruin certain scenes in my game, I uninstalled them.

I believe DG has the priority on balance I desire; performance first, then immersion. But then, I loathe crowds, so I am biased.

[Kriztofer]

Why would all nobles gather at the Winter Palace in Halamshiral instead of the capital? Is it a convenient excuse to "save" important political figures from the destruction of Val Royeaux?

The masked empire spoilers:

Spoiler

at the end of the book Briala leaves Celene at her winter palace to shut her off from the capital, I assume she sets up base there and makes the most of it.

[KC_Prototype]

Val Royeaux better be in the game! I mean this is a city we hear about a lot and never seen! Here's our a chance to see it and their is a concept art of Val Royeaux and even this website uses Val Royeaux concept art when going to choose the forum, blog, keep, etc.

[LadyKarrakaz]

I really do hope we get to see some big, lively cities. Being cut off from Val Royeaux would be a shame. The cathedral, the White spire, the Palace, all of these places I want to see. I also hope for Denerim, if we go to Ferelden. I'm also seriously hoping for a good old tavern where I can finally sit and talk with my companions. Would be awesome.

But the Masked Empire book closing the doors of the capital makes me less than optimistic for Val Royeaux.

 

I believe it's more likely we'll get smaller cities, one per playable area, for instance, Redcliffe for the hinterland, or this sand city (concept art, though it could be the fortress built near the darkspawn hole in the ground(?)) for the desert area, or dalish encampment for the Dales etc, and a dwarven thaig when in the Deeo Roads (though Orzammar was said as not appearing? So maybe Kal Sharok or another thaig that everyone believed lost?). 

[Wulfram]

I don't think it's possible to do good open world cities unless that's your sole focus.  Better to focus on more out of the way places.

[dutch_gamer]

I believe it's more likely we'll get smaller cities, one per playable area, for instance, Redcliffe for the hinterland, or this sand city (concept art) for the desert area, or dalish encampment for the Dales etc, and a dwarven thaig when in the Deeo Roads (though Orzammar was said as not appearing? So maybe Kal Sharok or another thaig that everyone believed lost?).

It was also confirmed on either Twitter or during the Raptr Q&A that we won't be visiting Kal Sharok either.

As far as I recall we will only visit the western part of Ferelden, so Denerim is doubtful.

[LadyKarrakaz]

Too bad for Denerim...

 

The discover the Dragon age video seems to hint at a dwarven location (1:51). Seems large enough to be a settlement.

[Meatbaggins]

It was also confirmed on either Twitter or during the Raptr Q&A that we won't be visiting Kal Sharok either.

As far as I recall we will only visit the western part of Ferelden, so Denerim is doubtful.

 

I believe they said Eastern Ferelden to Western Orlais, but I can find the quote.

[DarthLaxian]

If Val Royeaux is not in the game I doubt it is because of engine limitations but more about Bioware simply not wanting to spend resources on creating a city instead on focusing on giving us a bigger world.

 

I am of the believe there is a pretty good chance Val Royeaux won't be in the game. Didn't they conveniently close off the gates to the city in the last book?

 

I would love for the capital city to be in the game but I am getting increasingly more doubtful it will happen.

 

Hey,

 

I hope they didn't do this (cities are something that real goes to atmosphere etc. (like Denerim showing that Ferelden really was just a little backwater country of no importance - they do have dirt-roads in the city for crying out loud and it's the capital, too) and real shops and stuff (like a market, a brothel, a tavern etc.) can only be found in cities IMO, so I hope they didn't go the country only way

 

Hell, I would have loved to see some more cities (Minrathous, Kal-Sharok, The Anderfels, the Antiva City etc.) and "breathe in" their fragrance so to speak (Ferelden: wet dog, Orlais: probably perfume (do they wash with water or do they just put perfume on like the french aristocracy did?), Tevinter: blood? sweat? age? etc.)

greetings LAX

[KotorEffect3]

After Kirkwall I am ready for some countryside.  Though I wouldn't complain about a return to trip to Orzammar

[LadyKarrakaz]

It's  a question of balance. Would be nice to have at least one bug city where more merchants and "civilized" events can take place. Sometimes, you just need to go back to civilization after a long country trip.

[Das Tentakel]

It's  a question of balance. Would be nice to have at least one bug city where more merchants and "civilized" events can take place. Sometimes, you just need to go back to civilization after a long country trip.

 

There's also the thing that cities provide a nice change of pace, that they usually form a setting for impressive, monumental architecture and they also give a 'sense of scale' regarding the world.

 

Keeping cities out of the game may be for the best, however. I have the impression Bio is juggling a lot of things - it seems to me they are trying to do a lot of different things in an attempt to attract a very wide range of gamers.

Large, lively settlements can take up a lot of resources (see also here: http://www.lar.net/2...-gamescom-2012/ ), and therefore may be 'a bridge too far' for Bio under the present circumstances.

[Heimdall]

There's also the thing that cities provide a nice change of pace, that they usually form a setting for impressive, monumental architecture and they also give a 'sense of scale' regarding the world.

Keeping cities out of the game may be for the best, however. I have the impression Bio is juggling a lot of things - it seems to me they are trying to do a lot of different things in an attempt to attract a very wide range of gamers.
Large, lively settlements can take up a lot of resources (see also here: http://www.lar.net/2...-gamescom-2012/ ), and therefore may be 'a bridge too far' for Bio under the present circumstances.

Yes, though I must say that I'm hoping that their city setting is just so fantastic that they've been holding out on us to shock us. Just one city, really, that would go a long way.

[llandwynwyn]

I find it weird Bioware puts so much emphasis in exploration, yet says nothing of cities. I'm guessing it's because DAI npc ai isn't suited for big cities, it'd seem like a frozen/empty town, still...are we suppose to explore only forests, deserts etc?

[LadyKarrakaz]

Large, lively settlements can take up a lot of resources (see also here: http://www.lar.net/2...-gamescom-2012/ ), and therefore may be 'a bridge too far' for Bio under the present circumstances.

 

Thanks for the link. Very interesting read. Denerim was quite large, but was "scaled down" with the fact that many areas were closed to the player (remember the city map? We could only visit some places but not the whole city). Maybe a trick like this could give a sense of being in a big city while limiting the needed resources.

[Deflagratio]

If Val Royeaux isn't in the game, I have a feeling it will be a DLC-Expansion area. At no point during the conversation of DA:I do I picture the line "Let's do Orlais but intentionally leave out Val Royeaux ..." and judging from what I've seen in-game, I don't think there's any technical reason why it couldn't be delivered on unless your standard of acceptance is huge Assassins Creed level cities. That's not something I was ever under the impression of it needing. If you look at Redcliffe and the per-frame NPC count there, that kind of population density could easily service an urban area, especially if the level designers and optimizations are clever enough to utilize things that block line-of-sight to ease the render load.

[Das Tentakel]

Thanks for the link. Very interesting read. Denerim was quite large, but was "scaled down" with the fact that many areas were closed to the player (remember the city map? We could only visit some places but not the whole city). Maybe a trick like this could give a sense of being in a big city while limiting the needed resources.

 

Sure, but it would be somewhat at odds with Bio's attempts to go (quasi-) open world. It would feel rather odd, having an ' open'  countryside zone next or around the city, and to have the city itself only partially realised.

There are some standard tricks, of course, like some sort of quarantine acting as a pretext for blocking off access to certain parts of the city. Witcher I (city of Vizima) and Demonicon (city of Warunk) used this.

The only example, so far, of a complete and more or less open, sizeable city in a 3D western RPG I know of is the twin city of Cheznaddar-Hatmandor in Two Worlds II. Witcher III's Novigrad seems to be poised to completely top this, and might become the 'gold standard' for fantasy RPG cities.

That could turn out to be a very good thing, since this might well force other 'AAA' RPG studios to follow suit. A great Novigrad might push Bio into making a great Minrathous, for instance. I don't expect anything of that sort before 2016/17, however.