63 réponses à ce sujet

[SerCambria358]

No, you said the Qunari restrict freedom of choice and I told you that they don't view it that way, using analogies to illustrate why.  I directly addressed your point.

 

You're arguing that the fact that most Theodosians don't convert is indicative of some failing with the Qunari philosophy, that is an ad populum  argument.

I didnt say they viewed it that way, which is why i said everything beyond that point is a tangent

 

I never said that, i said, if the Qun was a utopia, then everyone would flock to it by the thousands-millions and the Tal Vashoth would be nonexistent. The same can be said about any society, i never claimed that this is due to failings in the qun.

[General TSAR]

That's a ridiculous comparison.  North Korean ideology emerged as a cult of personality centered around one man and his descendants, so basically as an excuse for egomaniacs to take power.  The Qun, on the other hand, is an ideology centered around a natural order of the world and optimizing one's life to best fit into that order, making it far more evocative of Daoism and Confucianism in that regard.  Granted, it is far more authoritarian, but keep in mind that caste systems not only survived but thrived for thousands of years.  To say the Qunari system doesn't work, well so far they seem to have produced a far more advanced society than the rest of Thedas combined (naval warfare, military warfare, weapons development, etc.)

It seems the context of that post has completely passed you by. 

[The Baconer]

Actually they're shown the most respect and willingly accept that they must be leashed due to their potential of being "dangerous".

 

I still contend that "respect" is absolutely not the correct word to describe this.

[Khraine]

The Qunari should be shown as the barbaric infidels they are. Any who follow the Qun should be crused under the boots of the inqusition.

 

Well thats my ingame thoughts, i would love to wipe out the ideology of the Qun

[Wulfram]

Is the Qunari truly respected Saarebas, they wouldn't be bas, they wouldn't be "dangerous things".  They'd be Saarari "Dangerous ones" perhaps

[SerCambria358]

I still contend that "respect" is absolutely not the correct word to describe this.

It is, i think its the word they used themselves. They respect the saarebas for their "sacrifice" having to contain the dangers of magic.

[The Baconer]

It is, i think its the word they used themselves. They respect the saarebas for their "sacrifice" having to contain the dangers of magic.

 

They've also described them as being lower than "beasts in the shape of men", and have stated that such submission is to be expected of any Qunari.
 

I think what they truly respect is the destruction that follows when they point the Saarebas at something they don't like.

[SerCambria358]

They've also described them as being lower than "beasts in the shape of men", and have stated that such submission is to be expected of any Qunari.
 

I think what they truly respect is the destruction that follows when they point the Saarebas at something they don't like.

Perceiving something as inferior does not in any way mean you cant greatly respect that being.

 

It has nothing to do with their ability to destroy, as i've already said, they view magic as a disease that all saarebas must contain and control their entire lives for the good of the people, thats why they're viewed in such "esteem" despite their social status 

[The Baconer]

Perceiving something as inferior does not in any way mean you cant greatly respect that being.

 

Yes, literally saying that they are beneath animals because animals can "at least learn" is totes just a form of subtle respect.

 

It has nothing to do with their ability to destroy, as i've already said, they view magic as a disease that all saarebas must contain and control their entire lives for the good of the people, thats why they're viewed in such "esteem" despite their social status 

 

It has everything to do with their ability to destroy, because that's the only reason Saarebas exist and aren't simply killed off or reduced to laborers (if they were to have an equivalent to Tranquility).

[SerCambria358]

Yes, literally saying that they are beneath animals because animals can "at least learn" is totes just a form of subtle respect.

 

 

It has everything to do with their ability to destroy, because that's the only reason Saarebas exist and aren't simply killed off or reduced to laborers (if they were to have an equivalent to Tranquility).

Telling me a second time that they dont view them as equal doesnt explain away that they dont respect them

 

Again, you're saying one thing, but it doesnt change what i said. Them being used as weapons still doesnt mean they cant be respected, i dont get that logic.

 

They've literally said they both pity and honor Saarebas for their "affliction" yet you insist on arguing that because you dont think so, even though its already been said

[The Baconer]

Telling me a second time that they dont view them as equal doesnt explain away that they dont respect them

 

Again, you're saying one thing, but it doesnt change what i said. Them being used as weapons still doesnt mean they cant be respected, i dont get that logic.

 

Because the quote defines the manner in which they are respected, or rather, the respect for their labors as magical beasts of burden.

 

 

They've literally said they both pity and honor Saarebas for their "affliction" yet you insist on arguing that because you dont think so, even though its already been said

 

Because, much like many other societies present on Thedas, there is a difference in what they claim to do and what they actually do. It is disingenuous to claim that the Saarebas are somehow "shown the most respect" given all the examples we've been shown of their treatment within the Qunari, regardless of how the Qunari themselves might choose to describe it.

[SerCambria358]

Because the quote defines the manner in which they are respected, or rather, the respect for their labors as magical beasts of burden.

 

 

 

Because, much like many other societies present on Thedas, there is a difference in what they claim to do and what they actually do. It is disingenuous to claim that the Saarebas are somehow "shown the most respect" given all the examples we've been shown of their treatment within the Qunari, regardless of how the Qunari themselves might choose to describe it.

No, you're making that assumption based on whats been said. Im going off of whats been directly said by the Qunari themselves, not an assumption im making based on personal opinion.

 

You cant see any way the qunari can respect Saarebas therefore you've concluded that there is no way they respect them on any other level beyond their skill as weapons, when they've clearly shown that isnt the case.

 

All the treatments given to Saarebas are accepted by the Saarebas as a necessity to control their potential danger, thats why they are pitied and respected, thats beyond just respecting them for their labor. Again for a second time, i dont see why you're arguing this based only on personal assumptions and opinion when those arent facts, you're trying argue facts said by them.

 

If the qunari didnt respect them on a personal level, then they wouldnt have said otherwise, they arent one's for lying or sugar coating, when the qunari say something, they mean it, yey you insist that they meant something else only because you personally cant see it any other way than whatever perception you already have formed in your mind. 

[The Baconer]

No, you're making that assumption based on whats been said. Im going off of whats been directly said by the Qunari themselves,

 

Right, as am I.

 

 

You cant see any way the qunari can respect Saarebas therefore you've concluded that there is no way they respect them on any other level beyond their skill as weapons, when they've clearly shown that isnt the case.

 

Clearly shown where?

 

 

All the treatments given to Saarebas are accepted by the Saarebas as a necessity to control their potential danger, thats why they are pitied and respected, thats beyond just respecting them for their labor. Again for a second time, i dont see why you're arguing this based only on personal assumptions and opinion when those arent facts, you're trying argue facts said by them.

 

If the qunari didnt respect them on a personal level, then they wouldnt have said otherwise, they arent one's for lying or sugar coating, when the qunari say something, they mean it, yey you insist that they meant something else only because you personally cant see it any other way than whatever perception you already have formed in your mind. 

 

Except they did say otherwise. The Arishok himself found it distasteful to suggest that the burden shouldered by the Saarebas is "difficult", or beyond what should be simply expected of any Qunari. And then there is Sten's explicit loathing for them expressed in DA:O. The claim that they are viewed with any higher regard would actually seem to be the exception, expressed by a Rivaini human convert (or at least the descendent of a convert) who wrote the "pity and honor" excerpt found in WoT.

[ReelRipper]

I despise the Quanri. Their so called ideal society sounds good on paper but the way they execute it makes me sick to my stomach. They separate families raising the children and reeducating the adults while mindbreaking those that resist turning them into slaves this is on top of attacking other nations.

You have no freedom to choose what you want to be or who you can love. With the later you are bred like cattle and your child taken away from you to be raised by someone else and what's more you are forced to mate with your own race just to keep bloodlines pure.

If I had to choose between joining the Qun or death then I happily choose to die fighting because at least in my last moments I would die as myself instead of having my identity taken from me or reduced to an empty shell.

My attitude towards them wasn't helped by the Mark of the Assassin DLC where you were allowed to argue the ethics of the Qun because you can argue with Qunari(or Elves when considering Tallis) especially since anyone who argued with them was portrayed as a strawman.

That's my two cents anyways.