426 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

And I said chasing Skyrim financial success. And even went on to say I wasn't talking about Bioware mimicking the game design.

Again, please go back and read. You're jumping to conclusions, making false assumptions and pulling rabbits out of hats and it is just making you a pop up at the top of the forum page looking silly.

But you keep bring up the issue the da should not have open world. I don't see why? The issue was always about the engine, not vision. It's not that they are mimicking someone else, it that the have the tools to do what they want. With their old engine they were forced to pick ether exploration or story to advance and exploration always took the hit. With frost bite they don't have to pick because it pre-ready to make wide open spaces.

[AlanC9]

Dude, that tactic can be use to take down the high dragon and flemeth in dragon age origins. You can get a tank and a bunch of ranged fighters and have the tank run around the dragon while the ranged fighter mow it down.

Sure. It's more of a problem in DA2 because stuff hits harder. It's less annoying to gimp myself in DA:O.

[Fast Jimmy]

Thanks.

I wasn't necessarily saying that it was something that needed to be fixed in BG. I was using as an example of a reason why I couldn't get into BG.

Perhaps it was out of place with the rest of my other issues with the game and now that I think about it, it was definitely out of place of a list of things I think people are being nostalgic over.

I never rule out a game just because it has a game mechanic I don't normally like, sometimes other aspects of the game can totally override the mechanic. I've never been a big fan of physics puzzles but I loved Portal.

That's fair. D&D rules are hard to understand and the UI does take some investigation to pick up (to be fair, Baldur's Gate was shipped with a manual close to 100 pages that worked to describe all of the stuff that, today, we gamers would hope would be explained in game or at least easy and intuitive to figure out).

[Allan Schumacher]

How is this mechanic, which clearly relies on the player's skill and response rather than character's, being fair to both Tactical mode users and Third-person view users? I mean, if I were playing the game in Tactical mode completely, will I not be at a disadvantage completely for not actively using this mechanic? Will I be forced to play in third-person mode and dodge roll whenever I can so I can get the most out of the character?

 

You can still use those abilities while in tactical camera.  You activate the ability and pick a direction to move in.  When you unpause/engage you'll execute the maneuver.

[Super Drone]

 

My problem is why isn't that guy, who's clearly not a fresh faced 20-something, asking where the mouse and keyboard is?  Anyone who's played Dragon Age and is aware of it's success knows the level of deifference between the platforms and how much that effects the presentation.  Is he nothing but a console junkie?

 PC Gamer elitists are cute.

 

It's like you think your 60 bucks spends better than other people's.

[Fast Jimmy]

But you keep bring up the issue the da should not have open world. I don't see why? The issue was always about the engine, not vision. It's not that they are mimicking someone else, it that the have the tools to do what they want. With their old engine they were forced to pick ether exploration or story to advance and exploration always took the hit. With frost bite they don't have to pick because it pre-ready to make wide open spaces.

Not once did I say DA should not be open world. Not. Once.

[leaguer of one]

 

The only thing that's simular for bg1 and 2 and dragon age is that they are both at their base point and click rpgs. That that's it. After that bg1 and 2 are more based on pen and paper rpgs with prevention tactics and dragon age is more like WoW mana combat with out the jumping. BG is all about prevention. Make sure your allies do not get a stat effect that destroys the group and the line of the group. DAO uses tank tactics and any preparation is about endurance. [/quote]

 

True. I guess this never struck me as significant because I always found that aspect of D&D to be fairly lame. You set up the optimal defensive buff list and run it almost all the time. One or two enemies require you to add another spell or two to the mix. It's like swapping between anti-synthetic an anti-organic ammo in ME1. Really takes a lot of thought.

 

 

BG1 and 2 also has way more exploration then dao. In fact dai in the only game out side of ME1 that comes close to bg1 and 2 exploration aspects.

 

I don't see any difference between BG2 and DA:O exploration-wise

 

There is a huge difference. The fact the the majority of BG1 and 2 quest are off the beaten path and you have to find them to do them make show how different the exploration is. DAO the most exploration you had was to go through a dungeon  you had to deal with for the over main story. With bg1 and 2 the majority of the exploration you did was to find  the quests to do which were optional. DAO never got the player to look for thing to do and reward them for it. You just got their eventually on a pre-determined path.

[TurretSyndrome]

And if they are rebooting the series now to be unlike DA2 OR DA:O, how is that cementing the identity? If DA:I is moving on from BG and NWN and DA:O was meant to be the spiritual successor to those games, how can hey be building off the foundation from DA:O?

Not saying that DA:I will be a disaster neccessarily, but it certainly doesn't have anything about it that can be considered true to the series... outside of comapnions you can have sex with. Which isn't even unique the DA series, it just seems to be its most identifiable trait.

 

I don't think Bioware ever said this is a reboot and neither do I consider it as one. The game is still very much like it's predecessors. The engine change allowed them to expand and evolve beyond just relying on the story and the characters to be their primary source of content and carry them forth(which was what DA:O and DA 2 mostly did). Now, we have the game-world itself to offer more in terms of content than just those two elements. 

 

I think DA:I has plenty of things which keep it true to the series. The party-based combat, detailed companion interactions, banter and individual character content, the lore, choices etc. They all scream DA if you ask me. As I said, the game just offers more. I think it's just that their visibility has gone down with the addition of new elements to the game, but they themselves still remain. Whether their quality is still up to par, which is really what defines this franchise for me, remains to be seen.

[Fast Jimmy]

You can still use those abilities while in tactical camera.  You activate the ability and pick a direction to move in.  When you unpause/engage you'll execute the maneuver.

Thank you, Allan. That has been an outstanding question now for weeks, if not months, it seems.

[leaguer of one]

Not once did I say DA should not be open world. Not. Once.

And yet you keep implying that it make more sense for them not to and they are just fallowing Shyrim.

[The Serge777]

Just because they are paying customers who are worried about a product? Geez I like Bioware and all but that does not mean I cant have doubts about their products.

There's nothing wrong with having doubts.  There's nothing wrong with being cautious.  Heck, there's nothing wrong with disliking something.  What I, and the other poster seems to be, questioning is the degree to which so-called fans react to any comment or to any product from Bioware.  To me, the reactions against DAI have not been measured, cautious statements; rather, many of them have been rage-fueled, often vulgar, diatribes that overstate a perceived flaw and downplay (similar) flaws in earlier Bioware products (like BG or DAO) by comparison (or non-Bioware games, particularly Skyrim, Demon/Dark Souls, and most recently, Divinity: Original Sin).

 

What gets me is that these people actually spend as much time and emotional energy getting so riled up when they do not appear intent on buying the game anyway...  Why bother get so invested, so angry is they aren't going to buy? 

 

So, folks are entitled to their opinions.  They're also entitled to their emotions.  However, they should not feel entitled to the idea that more...  level-headed? folks are going to grow tired of their antics and call them out on it.

[AlanC9]

There is a huge difference. The fact the the majority of BG1 and 2 quest are off the beaten path and you have to find them to do them make show how different the exploration is. DAO the most exploration you had was to go through a dungeon  you had to deal with for the over main story. With bg1 and 2 the majority of the exploration you did was to find  the quests to do which were optional. DAO never got the player to look for thing to do and reward them for it. You just got their eventually on a pre-determined path.

 

By "exploration" you mean walking around Athkatla to find the quest givers? (Besides the ones who just show up at the Coronet, of course) OK. I was thinking about the overland map stuff, which works the same way. You have a quest, the area's marked, you go to the area.

 

Looking for quest givers is not something I see as particularly significant about BG. At least I don't find this feature actually bad, though.

[Allan Schumacher]

And I'm not saying DA:I is nothing like BG - Bioware is the one saying that.

 

What are you referring to with this comment?

[Fast Jimmy]

And yet you keep implying that it make more sense for them not to and they are just fallowing Shyrim.

No. I'm not.

If you can find one example of my saying anything negative about open world design, please quote it. Otherwise, you are just wrong.

[TurretSyndrome]

You can still use those abilities while in tactical camera.  You activate the ability and pick a direction to move in.  When you unpause/engage you'll execute the maneuver.

 

Wouldn't it be hard to execute it in that mode though? I mean, you are in the Tactical view which covers a large part of the battlefield with the camera being freely movable. Unless you are playing in third person mode, how would you know your character is going to get hit and that you have to use it. DA 2 had Evade, but we were able to use it correctly because we were stuck with TP view.

[leaguer of one]

 
I see the point about prevention. I guess this never struck me as significant because I always found that aspect of D&D to be fairly lame. You set up the optimal defensive buff list and run it almost all the time. One or two enemies require you to add another spell or two to the mix. It's like swapping between anti-synthetic and anti-organic ammo in ME1. Really takes a lot of thought.
 
I don't see any difference between BG2 and DA:O exploration-wise

1. Except it would mean the end of you're group if you don't do it.  The concept of it is to make sure the game does not go down to one of just power only. That planning , tactic, and indirect attacks can devastate anyone. It's their to be fair in a sense. So  level pc/npc can take out a high level pc/npc. The ammo in ME are different being that it';s about effectiveness, not balance.

 

2.There is a huge difference. The fact the the majority of BG1 and 2 quest are off the beaten path and you have to find them to do them make show how different the exploration is. DAO the most exploration you had was to go through a dungeon  you had to deal with for the over main story. With bg1 and 2 the majority of the exploration you did was to find  the quests to do which were optional. DAO never got the player to look for thing to do and reward them for it. You just got their eventually on a pre-determined path.

[Allan Schumacher]

And yet you keep implying that it make more sense for them not to and they are just fallowing Shyrim.

 

Are you confusing posts?  THere's several people talking and it's possible you're attributing someone one poster said with another.

[Fast Jimmy]

What are you referring to with this comment?

The article with GameSpot, where I believe Cameron states in two different sections that Bioware has moved away from making games like Baldur's Gate and NWN.

One could say the games still share characteristics at this point due to being RPGs, but if it was a conscious decision to move away from those game's design, then is there anything more to link them from any other RPG, such as Icewind Dale or Final Fantasy?

[leaguer of one]

No. I'm not.

If you can find one example of my saying anything negative about open world design, please quote it. Otherwise, you are just wrong.

The fact you're saying bw is doing to go after shyrim money.

[Amaror]

What are you referring to with this comment?

 

In the article that was linked by OP it is stated that your reaction to being asked about Baldurs gate and neverwinter was that you "moved on from Baldurs Gate and Neverwinter"

 

Additionaly i would have a question: You guys said you can use the evasion roll in the tactical view. What about the AI tactics? Can i tell them to do dodge rolls even if i am not controlling them manually?

[Allan Schumacher]

Wouldn't it be hard to execute it in that mode though? I mean, you are in the Tactical view which covers a large part of the battlefield with the camera being freely movable.

 

No.  I select the character (like I would for anything else) and I pick the dodge ability (I can't remember the precise name off hand).  I then pick a direction that I'd like the character to roll in.

 

I'm obviously familiar with the system and that biases my interpretation, but I'm not sure how the circumstances of your statement would make the move more difficult to execute.  Can you elaborate?

[Fast Jimmy]

The fact you're saying bw is doing to go after shyrim money.

That's not saying they are copying their design. Bioware said they were going after Call of Duty's financial success in DA2... that didn't mean anyone thought they were adding grenades and AK-47's.


Again... you are making false conclusions and then acting smug about them as if you've caught me in some type of logic trap.

[TurretSyndrome]

I'm obviously familiar with the system and that biases my interpretation, but I'm not sure how the circumstances of your statement would make the move more difficult to execute.  Can you elaborate?

 

Sure. What I'm saying is; say you're playing in Tactical view only, how would you be able to see when to execute the move? Couldn't the camera be somewhere else during the fight, not to mention the camera angle itself makes it harder to see the moves of your enemies precisely to execute the roll?

 

In DA 2, we were stuck with Third Person view but it is because of that we were able to use Evade on our Rogue characters properly. Simply put, how do you solve the problem of the player who prefers Tactical mode gameplay when he's at a disadvantage compared to someone using third person, since the guy can't really use the skill as effectively as the TP one because of the lack of similar amount of combat visibility.

 

Also, can I ask if we can set the roll to tactics for characters, to make them use it on their own?

[CronoDragoon]

Also, can I ask if we can set the roll to tactics for characters, to make them use it on their own?

 

The answer to this could solve your initial question anyway, if the answer is yes.

[leaguer of one]

That's not saying they are copying their design. Bioware said they were going after Call of Duty's financial success in DA2... that didn't mean anyone thought they were adding grenades and AK-47's.


Again... you are making false conclusions and then acting smug about them as if you've caught me in some type of logic trap.

How can I  not come to that conclusion when you bring up the amount Shyrim made.

 

This is what you wrote...

"12 million sales for Skyrim blows every single western RPG out of the water. By a lot. Bioware is pointing EA at those numbers and saying "see? The RPG market can be a 10+ million unit genre!" And they are going down the exact route they think will take them there, away from the low sale amounts of old school games like Baldur's Gate and NWN.

The difference between Skyrim and DA:I? Skyrim is the sixth game of the TES series and has evolved in a steady, progressive pace. Not all of its fans like that progression and harken back to days of Morrowind, but it has features and hallmarks which define the series. "