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GS - Dragon Age: Inquisition, the Baldur's Gate Legacy, and the Value of an Open World


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#276
Cameron Lee

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Please do.
We have next to no information about the all stuff that's really really deep according to you guys.
We have no detail on our Castle, no Information about the Stats or Skill Trees, no Information about crafting, no Information about alchemy and so on. 
We want to believe that DA:I is going to be awesome and deep and a really cool rpg, but we don't have anything to work with.
Besides that one leaked video, all the marketing just keeps showing action and cool dragon fight and badass inquisitor walking away from a conversation without even looking back. We haven't really seen anything deep so far.


Understood. Now we're past E3 we have a bunch of things coming soon which will help show this much better.
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#277
Lethys1

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As for the last two major Bioware games, while I get the dissatisfaction that resulted from DA2 (again, which I chalk up to a rushed release), I will never fully understand the reaction to ME3.  Sure I disliked the endings, but the overall experience (save the somewhat lame package-quests) was great.  Indeed, I recall the earlier posts folks made about ME3 and they were incredibly positive.  It wasn't until we reached the end that the internet exploded and people acted as though their families were murdered.  In short, the most vulgar critics tend to overstate matters and froth emotionally without the ability to compartmentalize, and in turn infect other similarly minded people. 

 

I don't really believe in the idea of people infecting others with views, because I don't think anybody is compelled to agree with something they don't already agree with or wouldn't agree with if presented that view.  I don't consider discourse "infecting," even if not done in the way you'd prefer.  You simply need to present an alternate viewpoint to counteract theirs, if you care about the general forum-goer's opinion (which I try not to).

 

As for the criticisms of DA2, I think that the enemy spawning, difficulty imbalances, repeating levels, shift to potion-based healing, narrative structure (time jumps and disjointed acts), and plot weirdness (being attacked by mages and accused of being pro-templar despite making every decision pro-mage up to that point, or every mage/templar being basically evil except for 3 or 4, etc.) were all really bad.  I think the Arishok portion of the plot was excellent.  I think the companions were mostly just tropes, particularly Isabella (Varric is an exception).  I shouldn't so vehemently dislike the companions the way I did.  The part where I'm slaughtering a Dalish clan on behalf of a person I don't even like is not a game experience I need to have.  I liked the new mage animations, but not the other combat animations.  I didn't like that side quests were the first 15 hours of the game instead of actually being on the side.  The Anders event was bad, and when I said "I don't want to take a side" and she said "YOU HAVE TO" for a conflict I didn't want any part of, I literally turned off the game.  I then booted it on easy to see the end, and never looked back.

 

ME3's plot was flawed from the get-go, and I noticed it immediately.  I was one of the first people criticizing the game's ending on this forum and clearly remember when everyone was singing its praises.  I didn't particularly understand it then or now.  The points system was really annoying.  The impact of the vital choices were nullified by a too-powerful paragon/renegade system.  Many of the choices they teased as being important (collector base/rachni, etc.) didn't pan out.  The Crucible made no sense from the beginning, as the Prothean VI on Ilos would've mentioned it had the series been fully planned out instead of an ending being shoehorned in because of Drew Karpshyn's absence.  Also, as a concept the Crucible makes no sense.  All these races combine to build something they don't know the end-result of, throughout all of time, and it requires the Citadel to work despite the Citadel always being the first place that gets taken by the Reapers.  The death of companions gets nullified in impact because they simply get replaced by very similar people of the same race.  The gameplay wasn't great compared to other 3rd person shooters (even Gears 1 from 5 years prior), there were noticeably high levels of auto-dialog, and the Prothean companion's effect on the plot was extremely disappointing plot-wise.  There were also too many bugs, some that prevented quests from popping up or finishing.  It had fun parts, but not enough to make up for all that.  And that doesn't at all mention the end (which I purposefully neglected to mention, and enraged me more for its multiplayer requirement than anything).

 

The vulgarity comes because people have the ideas in their head of what makes them mad, but they're too stupid more often than not to explain it.  Or, they don't want to take the time to explain it.  I don't think it's problematic so much as it is lazy.  I don't blame them for it, but it does annoy me sometimes.  The real problem is that BioWare seems to repeatedly make statements which can be taken out of context in such a fashion, as they often are combative.  I felt hostility by the BioWare staff leading up the DA2 release, to the point where I thought my critiques must have been really false.  I'm sure to them that I was only one in a sea of vulgar people, but I wasn't using vulgarity (or at least I hope I didn't, I can't truly remember anymore).  The nature of BioWare's hostile commentary in the forum back then literally sold me on the game.  There was no way these guys would be so cavalier if any of what was said was truthful, but it turned out I was wrong about that.  So I then realized it was defensiveness, and the company's posture has been defensiveness for a very long time now.  I have a hard time trusting anything they say.  They know what people want to hear, and that's why I'm amazed when they say something like "gamers have moved on from BG."

 

And again, I hope to enjoy the game.  I actually am not opposed to the new direction for the series, even if it sounds like I am.  I just want them to do new things within the context of this older format, versus trying to reinvent the wheel based on what the other guys are doing.  I don't think a dialog wheel is as good as they do, for example, even if there's 9 of them and they're all within each other like Russian dolls.  I just know that going in, I'm unlikely to play something that I would have thought could be a BioWare game 6 years ago.  And I mean that as an ambiguous statement, because it has both positive and negative meanings.


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#278
Vilegrim

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Nope, you did not.

 

true, and that was a flaw.  But the slower combat made it easier to live with.



#279
leaguer of one

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true, and that was a flaw.  But the slower combat made it easier to live with.

The issue was not that it was too fast. It that it had too many enemies at once. You suddenly had to live or die on crowd control and always watch your  back unlike DAO.



#280
Amaror

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Which was stated in  forum about romances. Are we forgetting we had a day where they answered questions about everything else but romances?

Tell me one thing that they revealed that day, that was about the core mechanics of the game.

And i mean details. Not "It will be super awesome!" or "It will be soooooo deep!"


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#281
CronoDragoon

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At some point, someone's going to have to actually show us the deep RPG systems we keep getting told exist instead of devs talking about how they have conceptualized the game in their heads. Because I think that was DA2's biggest flaw - the devs had a vision of the game that the reality just didn't live up to, but they couldn't see past the ideals in their heads to notice the execution wasn't ready to be released to the world yet.


Not that they had a choice in the matter.

#282
leaguer of one

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Tell me one thing that they revealed that day, that was about the core mechanics of the game.

And i mean details. Not "It will be super awesome!" or "It will be soooooo deep!"

You can look it up yourself.

http://www.princesss...evs-july-8-2014



#283
Amaror

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You can look it up yourself.

http://www.princesss...evs-july-8-2014

Yeah i did:

Crafting: "It's gonna be awesome!"

Equipment: "Qunari don't wear helmets"

CC:"It's gonna be awesome!"

The rest is mainly about characters, romances and lore. 

 

Yeah that's some detailed **** right there


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#284
leaguer of one

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Yeah i did:

Crafting: "It's gonna be awesome!"

Equipment: "Qunari don't wear helmets"

CC:"It's gonna be awesome!"

The rest is mainly about characters, romances and lore. 

 

Yeah that's some detailed **** right there

Not really.

http://www.princesss...8-2014#gameplay

 

Gameplay has the most questions.



#285
Allan Schumacher

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Removed some posts.  Keep the discussion about the article.

 

Yes, we haven't released much beyond the companion content yet.  There's more stuff coming.  Talking down about other posters that are interested in other aspects of the game than you is not acceptable.



#286
Amaror

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Not really.

http://www.princesss...8-2014#gameplay

 

Gameplay has the most questions.

 

Alright there's one answer in there, that combat is pausible anytime and that that's not tied to the tactical view, which is good news.

However, the rest is either stuff we allready knew long ago or just "We can't talk about that yet".



#287
leaguer of one

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http://youtu.be/f8xJMWRI-cA?t=18m21s

 

As high as I saw it go so far. This also answers your real time question I guess.

The ironic thing about that complaint is that when bw show dao's e3 demo it was mostly low camera as well.


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#288
Vilegrim

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The ironic thing about that complain is that when bw show dao's e3 demo it was mostly low camera as well.

 

 

that was when I didn't look at e3 videos :P



#289
Majestic Jazz

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Please do.

We have next to no information about the all stuff that's really really deep according to you guys.

We have no detail on our Castle, no Information about the Stats or Skill Trees, no Information about crafting, no Information about alchemy and so on. 

We want to believe that DA:I is going to be awesome and deep and a really cool rpg, but we don't have anything to work with.

Besides that one leaked video, all the marketing just keeps showing action and cool dragon fight and badass inquisitor walking away from a conversation without even looking back. We haven't really seen anything deep so far.

 

v06N8.gif

 

I will add to your list of what we have not seen:

 

- Virtually nothing about the keep. Yes, it is in beta, but does it have to be 100% secretive? This isn't the Manhattan Project.

 

- Depth exploration. Yes, we saw the Hinterlands demo, but I wouldn't count that as showing off how vast exploration is as what was shown really looked like a linear path from the south of the map to the north of the map with no real depth. I want to see a demo that shows off just how large and vast these areas are. We keep hearing that they are large and so on, but I am not seeing that. Again, the Hinterland demo did show off some exploration, but in the end it was all interrupted with the Dragon fight. I would have rather those extra minutes been kept to the exploration.

 

- More of this new and improved dialog wheel/conversations.

 

- Example of the Inquisitor gaining more influence and how that effects gameplay/story.



#290
Elhanan

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While my eyes are too poor to see them clearly, released footage shows Skill trees. I also have seen vids discussing crafting, though it is general info. And have no reason to believe that Attributes have changed from the previous games.

http://img33.imagesh.../2991/bav8.png

#291
Majestic Jazz

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While my eyes are too poor to see them clearly, released footage shows Skill trees. I also have seen vids discussing crafting, though it is general info. And have no reason to believe that Attributes have changed from the previous games.

http://img33.imagesh.../2991/bav8.png

 

What video is this from?



#292
leaguer of one

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I will add to your list of what we have not seen:

 

- Virtually nothing about the keep. Yes, it is in beta, but does it have to be 100% secretive? This isn't the Manhattan Project.

 

- Depth exploration. Yes, we saw the Hinterlands demo, but I wouldn't count that as showing off how vast exploration is as what was shown really looked like a linear path from the south of the map to the north of the map with no real depth. I want to see a demo that shows off just how large and vast these areas are. We keep hearing that they are large and so on, but I am not seeing that. Again, the Hinterland demo did show off some exploration, but in the end it was all interrupted with the Dragon fight. I would have rather those extra minutes been kept to the exploration.

 

- More of this new and improved dialog wheel/conversations.

 

- Example of the Inquisitor gaining more influence and how that effects gameplay/story.

There more then one demo showing exploration.

https://www.youtube....8xJMWRI-cA#t=15

 

They can't talk about anything untill they are sure was they say will be in it.

 

Showing how the new dialog wheel works and how the Inquisitor  will gain more influence and how that effects gameplay/story would show spoilers. 



#293
Brogan

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1. The demos they are using a controler. You're jumping to conclution if you think they are going to make you place dai the same as using a keyboard and mouse.

 

2.You seen it plenty of times when they move the camera around the battle field. When move their character from a to b no one puts the camra in front of the character, they won't see where they are going.

You say I'm jumping to conclusions, and I hope you are right, but the fact remains that this is getting to the point where they need to start showing the PC fanbase things like mouse cursors, hotbars and free camera movement or pre-orders are going to start being cancelled.



#294
Brogan

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What's the panic about? I have assumed that DA:I will divide combat into a tactical mode and a more action like mode? Am I wrong?

Just zoom out into tactical camera. The mode is available on consoles too, this time.

This post makes no sense if you take from the vids what they are telling us.  The 'mode' you are talking about never existed on PC because we have scrollwheels and you didn't have any button you had to hit to scroll out, pause and "do tactics".  They are saying this is some "new" feature like we didn't have the ability to zoom out before.

 

So either they are talking only to the console fanbase, or something is seriously wrong here and they need to show us the PC version, if there is one.


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#295
Elhanan

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What video is this from?


Pic is linked to this article; vid could be linked inside it, too. Others have posted this shot earlier; reason I know it was extant.

http://www.eurogamer.../thread/241621

#296
Morroian

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This post makes no sense if you take from the vids what they are telling us.  The 'mode' you are talking about never existed on PC because we have scrollwheels and you didn't have any button you had to hit to scroll out, pause and "do tactics".  They are saying this is some "new" feature like we didn't have the ability to zoom out before.

 

So either they are talking only to the console fanbase, or something is seriously wrong here and they need to show us the PC version, if there is one.

 

At this point you're just trolling, we haven't seen the PC version but they have spoken about the top down tactical view in detail, maybe not how we get taken into it on PC but really why is that so important.



#297
leaguer of one

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You say I'm jumping to conclusions, and I hope you are right, but the fact remains that this is getting to the point where they need to start showing the PC fanbase things like mouse cursors, hotbars and free camera movement or pre-orders are going to start being cancelled.

Free camera movement....Ohhhhhhh.... :rolleyes:

 

http://youtu.be/f8xJMWRI-cA?t=18m21s



#298
ghostzodd

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This post makes no sense if you take from the vids what they are telling us.  The 'mode' you are talking about never existed on PC because we have scrollwheels and you didn't have any button you had to hit to scroll out, pause and "do tactics".  They are saying this is some "new" feature like we didn't have the ability to zoom out before.

 

So either they are talking only to the console fanbase, or something is seriously wrong here and they need to show us the PC version, if there is one.

 

 

312780_215296948542352_121107540_n.jpg?r


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#299
Brogan

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Overall this reeked of an interviewer who doesn't know the DA series & who possibly doesn't like the "Antiquated" game play. Cameron didn't say anything off script just bragging about features & open world immersion stuff. So yeah, Every other E3 interview was better than Gamespot's B)

Great post.  Personally, I was wondering to myself why this guy wasn't asking where the mouse and keyboard interface was before he even sat down.  Perhaps he thinks this is an XB exclusive...



#300
ForgottenWarrior

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Brrr. The same statements, the same questions and the same answers. All the same. There was so many interviews and previews and there is no new at all. Just a grey mass to me. I gotta feeling all journalists just recieved the same script.