426 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

Dude, you don't get it. You're whining about how much the game is not like bg but then complain when they add bg biggest feature. Bg1 and 2 have strong exploration aspects, so strong that very few bw game came close to the scope of exploration those 2 games have. And DAI is bring it back and yet you're saying it's a cash grab to make it more like Shyrim. The thing that makes it more like bg some how is the thing you hate the most?

Stop already, if you keep doing this you'll choke to death on that foot you keep putting in your mouth.

Did I say open world exploration was bad?

If I did, please, let me know. Because otherwise you look incredibly stupid.

[leaguer of one]

And if they are rebooting the series now to be unlike DA2 OR DA:O, how is that cementing the identity? If DA:I is moving on from BG and NWN and DA:O was meant to be the spiritual successor to those games, how can hey be building off the foundation from DA:O?

Not saying that DA:I will be a disaster neccessarily, but it certainly doesn't have anything about it that can be considered true to the series... outside of comapnions you can have sex with. Which isn't even unique the DA series, it just seems to be its most identifiable trait.

How is DAI moving away from DAO? It would be like saying the combat from ME2 moved the series identity from what it was in ME1.  DAO was meant to be the spiritual successor to bg, but it never truly was. There too much deference or it to be.

[phantomrachie]

You lost me at "The camera was annoying"

 

Why? because its too generic a complaint or because BG was point and click so the camera moved with you and therefore in your opinion can't be annoying.

 

Without going into a rant about it my major complaint about the camera in BG was how it dealt with characters going behind obstacles, you tended to lose sight of them, I also thought it was zoomed too far out, I like to be a bit closer in. I feel like I can see more detail that way.

 

THis is a personal preference of course as I'm not a huge fan of always being in a top down view, I like to be able to zoom in closer for combat.

[leaguer of one]

Did I say open world exploration was bad?

If I did, please, let me know. Because otherwise you look incredibly stupid.

But you are saying that open world was taking away from the game and making it more like Shyrim. I'm pointing out the irony here that the feature you are complaining about was one of bg strongest features  of BG yet at the same time you're saying DAI is nothing like bg.

[AlanC9]

I didn't really find that but then I spent a very long time getting Aveline's tactics just right so she could function has a tank without my input.

Is there a way to make Aveline automatically dodge the High Dragon's melee attacks? I didn't find one.

I'm talking about this sort of thing, from the Wiki:
 

Keeping a tank attacking the High Dragon will usually keep her from using her Fire Spit and Pounce attacks. If ranged fighters stay out of range of Fire Breath, this should prevent anyone except the tank being attacked or taking damage during the basic attack modes. If the tank constantly moves to the side of the High Dragon, attacks briefly, then steps back a short ways while she melee attack, they will also avoid most damage while still keeping her distracted. The High Dragon will leap and turn to face the tank, but keep circling and striking and the mode should be finished with little health loss if attention is paid to moving out of range in time.

[AlanC9]

But you are saying that open world was taking away from the game and making it more like Shyrim. I'm pointing out the irony here that the feature you are complaining about was one of bg strongest features  of BG yet at the same time you're saying DAI is nothing like bg.

 

You mean BG1? 

[Fast Jimmy]

But you are saying that open world was taking away from the game and making it more like Shyrim. I'm pointing out the irony here that the feature you are complaining about was one of bg strongest features  of BG yet at the same time you're saying DAI is nothing like bg.

I'm saying open world in Skyrim is purely logical, because the entire series has included it and made it part of its identity. I, in no way, said it is taking away from DA:I. Nor am I complaining about it.

And I'm not saying DA:I is nothing like BG - Bioware is the one saying that.

[leaguer of one]

Is there a way to make Aveline automatically dodge the High Dragon's melee attacks? I didn't find one.

I'm talking about this sort of thing, from the Wiki:
 

Dude, that tactic can be use to take down the high dragon and flemeth in dragon age origins. You can get a tank and a bunch of ranged fighters and have the tank run around the dragon while the ranged fighter mow it down.

[leaguer of one]

You mean BG1? 

And 2.

[phantomrachie]

LOL Some people can't seem to grasp the concept of non-3D games.

 

Dude, there is no need to be insulting. I'm not a big fan of cameras in games that are constantly in a tactical view. I much prefer to be able to zoom in closer for some situations and then back out for others. I feel like I'm not seeing the details I need to see if I'm always zoomed out.

 

I've played plenty of non-3D games and dealt with many different types of camera angles. Over the years I've developed preferences like everyone and these preferences mean that when I play older games that I don't have nostalgia for, I see a lot of flaws and annoyances in the older way of game design.

 

It's like when I introduced a friend of mine to the N64 version of Goldeneye, I loved that game but he found some features of if annoying and he didn't have nostalgia to help smooth over those annoyances. In the end we played the Xbox 360 version because it had most of what I liked about the original and smoothed out some of its problems.

[CronoDragoon]

And I'm not saying DA:I is nothing like BG - Bioware is the one saying that.

 

They aren't saying that either. But I agree that saying they've "moved on" from BG doesn't make much sense, since the way the regions and exploration function look way more like how BG worked than Skyrim.

[leaguer of one]

I'm saying open world in Skyrim is purely logical, because the entire series has included it and made it part of its identity. I, in no way, said it is taking away from DA:I. Nor am I complaining about it.

And I'm not saying DA:I is nothing like BG - Bioware is the one saying that.

Bw is saying that their focus is not on making it like bg not that it has no similarities. And the reason why dao was not open world in the first place was because of the limit the engine had.  Frost bite does not have that issue. So what wrong with them using the engines specialty?

[K3m0sabe]

Why? because its too generic a complaint or because BG was point and click so the camera moved with you and therefore in your opinion can't be annoying.

 

Without going into a rant about it my major complaint about the camera in BG was how it dealt with characters going behind obstacles, you tended to lose sight of them, I also thought it was zoomed too far out, I like to be a bit closer in. I feel like I can see more detail that way.

 

THis is a personal preference of course as I'm not a huge fan of always being in a top down view, I like to be able to zoom in closer for combat.

 

It's not top down, its isometric. And i'm still to find a 3d game rpg that has more graphical detail than a well made 2D isometric one. 

[phantomrachie]

Is there a way to make Aveline automatically dodge the High Dragon's melee attacks? I didn't find one.

I'm talking about this sort of thing, from the Wiki:
 

 

No, but I never had an issue with the high dragon's melee attacks in DA2, just made sure I had enough healing potions or brought Anders along.

[phantomrachie]

It's not top down, its isometric. And i'm still to find a 3d game rpg that has more graphical detail than a well made 2D isometric one. 

 

I stand corrected. It's an isometric view. My point on my personal preference still stands

[Tevinter Rose]

You have not been on gamespot very long. The people of that site a jaded hardcore players. It's like walking through a horde of simpson's comic book guys.

 

That's a perfect description of them.

[Fast Jimmy]

Dude, there is no need to be insulting. I'm not a big fan of cameras in games that are constantly in a tactical view. I much prefer to be able to zoom in closer for some situations and then back out for others. I feel like I'm not seeing the details I need to see if I'm always zoomed out.
 
I've played plenty of non-3D games and dealt with many different types of camera angles. Over the years I've developed preferences like everyone and these preferences mean that when I play older games that I don't have nostalgia for, I see a lot of flaws and annoyances in the older way of game design.
 
It's like when I introduced a friend of mine to the N64 version of Goldeneye, I loved that game but he found some features of if annoying and he didn't have nostalgia to help smooth over those annoyances. In the end we played the Xbox 360 version because it had most of what I liked about the original and smoothed out some of its problems.

Sorry, I wasn't meaning to be derogatory, it's just that you state you want a different angle or want to zoom in... that's the very defintion of a 3D game. Yes, there may be instances where units get hidden by the environment in a 2D game, espeically with an isometric view - that's one of the drawbacks to the model. But it is something one should be aware of when picking up or playing a game. Or, perhaps more accurately, realizing your complaint sounds a little out of place.

It is like saying "I can't hear the inflection of the actor's in this silent film" or "it's hard to tell what exactly I'm looking with in this Cubist painting." If these were "fixed" you would wind up with a totally different end product.

Does that help?

[Fast Jimmy]

Bw is saying that their focus is not on making it like bg not that it has no similarities. And the reason why dao was not open world in the first place was because of the limit the engine had. Frost bite does not have that issue. So what wrong with them using the engines specialty?

You keep going back to open world, as if I wrote a diatribe insulting the concept. Please go back and read - no one is talking about open world except for you.

[CronoDragoon]

I don't like isometric view in stuff like BG, but it's a symptom of my dislike for KB&M gameplay in general. I enjoyed Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance on PS2, for example.

[Paul E Dangerously]

1) BG and NWN weren't really all that alike, despite being both Bioware games, and both D&D games. In particular, NWN seemed to suffer for being far more focused as a multiplayer game/toolset.

2) DAO wasn't really like either. Aside from some superficialities, it had more in common with WoW than it did either BG game. A very restrictive class system, hotkey/cooldown based combat, and a flat mana bar.

3) DAO might have had the slowest combat out of any of the Bioware RPGs, and that's saying something. A lot of it had to do with the weird animation gap between the time between you hit a key, and the time your character does something.

[leaguer of one]

You keep going back to open world, as if I wrote a diatribe insulting the concept. Please go back and read - no one is talking about open world except for you.

The fact you keep bring up Skyrim means you're talking about open world.

[Fast Jimmy]

The fact you keep bring up Skyrim means you're talking about open world.

And I said chasing Skyrim financial success. And even went on to say I wasn't talking about Bioware mimicking the game design.

Again, please go back and read. You're jumping to conclusions, making false assumptions and pulling rabbits out of hats and it is just making you a pop up at the top of the forum page looking silly.

[phantomrachie]

Sorry, I wasn't meaning to be derogatory, it's just that you state you want a different angle or want to zoom in... that's the very defintion of a 3D game. Yes, there may be instances where units get hidden by the environment in a 2D game, espeically with an isometric view - that's one of the drawbacks to the model. But it is something one should be aware of when picking up or playing a game. Or, perhaps more accurately, realizing your complaint sounds a little out of place.

It is like saying "I can't hear the inflection of the actor's in this silent film" or "it's hard to tell what exactly I'm looking with in this Cubist painting." If these were "fixed" you would wind up with a totally different end product.

Does that help?

 

Thanks. 

 

I wasn't necessarily saying that it was something that needed to be fixed in BG. I was using as an example of a reason why I couldn't get into BG.

 

Perhaps it was out of place with the rest of my other issues with the game and now that I think about it, it was definitely out of place of a list of things I think people are being nostalgic over.

 

I never rule out a game just because it has a game mechanic I don't normally like, sometimes other aspects of the game can totally override the mechanic. I've never been a big fan of physics puzzles but I loved Portal.  

[Deflagratio]

And I'm not saying DA:I is nothing like BG - Bioware is the one saying that.

 

"Nothing like BG" did they actually say that? I just know they've said "Gaming has moved on from Baldur's Gate" which it has. But that doesn't mean some of the lessons of the series and subgenre don't translate. How they approach their world-building is almost a literal mirror of what Baldur's Gate did, with areas representing D&D style Modules tied into a central Campaign.

 

I think the only thing BioWare does really different is exploit the technology to create a reactive experience. It's arguable (And you make the case for this which I don't necessarily disagree with) that they take it too far.

 

If BioWare (Specifically Cameron Lee) did say it's "Nothing like" Baldur's Gate, he misspoke, because you have Laidlaw and Darrah quoted as wanting to "Head back" in that direction. Which by all accounts (Especially compared to Origins) they've done. Changing the world design and how it's stitched together quite literally changes the experience and how the game is played in one of the most dramatic ways possible and simultaneously addresses my biggest problem with DA:O, which lies at the heart of why I'm so (Perhaps too?) enthusiastic about DA:I's direction.

[AlanC9]

The only thing that's simular for bg1 and 2 and dragon age is that they are both at their base point and click rpgs. That that's it. After that bg1 and 2 are more based on pen and paper rpgs with prevention tactics and dragon age is more like WoW mana combat with out the jumping. BG is all about prevention. Make sure your allies do not get a stat effect that destroys the group and the line of the group. DAO uses tank tactics and any preparation is about endurance.

(snip)

BG1 and 2 also has way more exploration then dao. In fact dai in the only game out side of ME1 that comes close to bg1 and 2 exploration aspects.

 
I see the point about prevention. I guess this never struck me as significant because I always found that aspect of D&D to be fairly lame. You set up the optimal defensive buff list and run it almost all the time. One or two enemies require you to add another spell or two to the mix. It's like swapping between anti-synthetic and anti-organic ammo in ME1. Really takes a lot of thought.
 
I don't see any difference between BG2 and DA:O exploration-wise