60 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

The only thing that really keeps the reapers from totally obliterating everything in sight in a short period of time is the fact that they want to keep a certain number of people alive to harvest. If it's becoming apparent that this plan is failing, they may just cut their losses and glass the planet and quickly run to the next one, leaving no ground to go to, and then they can just mop up the fleets. They can travel faster and farther than any ship in the known galaxy with ease and there's nothing that could be done about it. If the reapers had decided that this cycle was crap well before they returned, there would be no forces to gather in the first place.

[AlanC9]

The reason Refusal doesn't allow for conventional victory is probably because Bioware wanted to force the use of Crucible. Otherwise,if BW took a few more months of development they probably would've implemented it.

You were right the first time. Bio never intended for a conventional victory to be possible. A few more months of development time would have changed nothing.

Which means, of course, that your entire argument is idiotic. I can work out why that's so if you like

The allied fleets (Migrant Fleet/Geth fleet combined,Turians,Humans,Asari,Destiny Ascension,Salarians,Mercenary fleets,what-not) is made out of dozens and dozens of thousands of ships. The Migrant Fleet alone alone has fifty thousand ships (codex).

The 50,000 ships in the Migrant fleet mostly aren't warships. Nor are there "dozens and dozens of thousands of ships" in the other navies, unless we're talking about unarmed freighters. The actual organic fleet strength (plus geth) is something like 130 dreadnoughts, with smaller ships in proportional numbers. Assuming something like an historical proportion of the smaller ships, we're talking well under 2500 warships total for all known races.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

The reason Refusal doesn't allow for conventional victory is probably because Bioware wanted to force the use of Crucible. Otherwise,if BW took a few more months of development they probably would've implemented it. On top of that,the whole Priority:Earth is structured around a "depressing tone",and "constant losing",in other words low EMS,so Bioware never intended for there to be some major victory there for whatever reason.

 

The allied fleets (Migrant Fleet/Geth fleet combined,Turians,Humans,Asari,Destiny Ascension,Salarians,Mercenary fleets,what-not) is made out of dozens and dozens of thousands of ships. The Migrant Fleet alone alone has fifty thousand ships (codex).

 

The Reapers aren't that invincible with the exception of the biggest ships (there are only two,Harbringer and Sovereign). Hell,the Turians alone managed to down several Reaper CAPITAL SHIPS at Palaven using clever,guess what,strategy (Miracle at Palaven,Codex). So saying that the entire Galactic fleet (and it takes some time to travel from the relay to Earth,that's just another plot hole,so everybody has more than enough time to get there) can't beat the Reapers at Earth is non-sense with all due respect.

 

1) That's the way BioWare decided to write the Reapers. I figured as far back as ME1 that you weren't going to be able to beat the Reapers without some kind of miraculous superweapon. A few more months of writing and development isn't going to 'magic' the Reapers into being more vulnerable and weak. At best, all that could be changed was the atmosphere and action surrounding Priority: Earth, as well as better narrative and thematic build-up to the Crucible, and possibly better execution. That said, there was never going to be a victory that didn't involve the Crucible. The Reapers are too powerful.

 

2) And it takes entire fleets to destroy one Reaper, let alone an entire armada of them. One Reaper armada made up of a few hundred(not even their entire force) surrounding Earth is able to dispatch the entire combined Galactic Fleet should the Crucible not be activated. The number of ships you'd need to beat the Reapers is exponentially higher than what you have as a possibility. The Reapers have you hopelessly outnumbered, and hopelessly outgunned. No, not hopelessly.

 

Hilariously.

 

You have absolutely zero chance of ever defeating the Reapers without the Crucible.

 

3) The Reapers aren't that invincible with the exception of the biggest ships (there are only two,Harbringer and Sovereign). Hell,the Turians alone managed to down several Reaper CAPITAL SHIPS at Palaven using clever,guess what,strategy (Miracle at Palaven,Codex). So saying that the entire Galactic fleet (and it takes some time to travel from the relay to Earth,that's just another plot hole,so everybody has more than enough time to get there) can't beat the Reapers at Earth is non-sense with all due respect.

 

To be frank, yes, the Reapers are that invincible. This is a misunderstanding on your part. Given the estimated age of the Reapers, the average amount of time between each interval of harvesting, and the Reapers reproductive habits, you can come up with an approximated number of about 20,000 Reapers of dreadnought size alone. No information is given for smaller Reapers' numbers, but it's substantially larger. 

 

Several Reapers being stopped at Palaven (by entire fleets of dozens to hundreds of ships no less) does not compare to the numbers given at Earth or in the galaxy at large. There are a lot more than a handful of Reapers at both Palaven and Earth. While you may incapacitate or destroy a handful, at the end of the hour, you're still going to be completely outmatched. One Reaper is powerful enough to fight multiple fleets. Think of what hundreds of Reapers would do. It would be a massacre.

 

It's nonsense to believe that the entire Galactic fleet has a chance at Earth (let alone the galaxy) beyond throwing enough ships at the Reapers long enough to sneak the Crucible past them. And I'd say with all due respect, except I have no respect for that position.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

The only thing that really keeps the reapers from totally obliterating everything in sight in a short period of time is the fact that they want to keep a certain number of people alive to harvest. If it's becoming apparent that this plan is failing, they may just cut their losses and glass the planet and quickly run to the next one, leaving no ground to go to, and then they can just mop up the fleets. They can travel faster and farther than any ship in the known galaxy with ease and there's nothing that could be done about it. If the reapers had decided that this cycle was crap well before they returned, there would be no forces to gather in the first place.

 

*sigh*

 

Very random pet peeve of mind here, but I hate it when people say 'glassing a planet'.

 

You all need to stop playing Halo.

 

Vitrification of an entire planets surface would take temperatures of nearly 11000 Fahrenheit being applied continuously to every single square foot of the planet for 30 years straight to completely vitrify the planetary crust at a depth of 10 meters, and then apply cold to the planet at a temperature of less than 10 degrees Fahrenheit to the entire surface for about a 3 months after that to successfully crystallize the surface.

[KaiserShep]

I've never played Halo. In any case, I always just figured it as just an expression, not to mean that the planet would literally be turned to glass, but rather being comparable to simply saying "bomb the sh*t out of a planet", or "bomb them back into the stone age".

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

I've never played Halo. In any case, I always just figured it as just a figure of speech, not to mean that the planet would literally be turned to glass. When I say "bomb the sh*t out of something", it doesn't necessarily mean that sh*t will literally come out when it's hit with bombs.

 

In all likelihood, I don't know why the Reapers just don't pollute the atmosphere or introduce a toxin that wipes out sapient species.

 

Much easier than going from planet to planet and systematically exterminating all life on their own. 

[KaiserShep]

That's kind of what the reapers were doing on Tuchanka, though why they had to commandeer the shroud to do this was anyone's guess. Convenience, I suppose.

 

Actually, a toxin would probably not even be necessary. The reapers already utilize nanotechnology, and it was proven through the Collectors that they are capable of coming up with potent bioweapons.

[SporkFu]

Maybe they enjoy their work

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Face the facts: the Mac Attack reaper invasion plot was nonsense.

[SporkFu]

Face the facts: the Mac Attack reaper invasion plot was nonsense.

Your last couple posts about the reaper invasion got me thinking whether  the main plot objective could have been to somehow stop the reapers from invading at all; they remained a largely undefined threat and we had to trap them in dark space forever. I dunno how it could work exactly, or even if it could, but it's interesting to think about. 

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

Your last couple posts about the reaper invasion got me thinking whether  the main plot objective could have been to somehow stop the reapers from invading at all; they remained a largely undefined threat and we had to trap them in dark space forever. I dunno how it could work exactly, or even if it could, but it's interesting to think about. 

 

We tried that. The Reapers were trapped in dark space.

 

They just came in the long way. Nothing is stopping them from actually moving.

[SporkFu]

We tried that. The Reapers were trapped in dark space.

 

They just came in the long way. Nothing is stopping them from actually moving.

We didn't trap them, we just closed off their shortcut. My idea was, what if the plot of ME3 was a way to keep them out there forever. 

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

We didn't trap them, we just closed off their shortcut. My idea was, what if the plot of ME3 was a way to keep them out there forever. 

 

How would you do that? All they have to do is fly towards the galaxy. It's kind of open. They really can just waltz on in.

[SporkFu]

How would you do that? All they have to do is fly towards the galaxy. It's kind of open. They really can just waltz on in.

Yeah... that's where the idea kinda falls apart, heh. 

[AlanC9]

*sigh*
 
Very random pet peeve of mind here, but I hate it when people say 'glassing a planet'.
 
You all need to stop playing Halo.
 
Vitrification of an entire planets surface would take temperatures of nearly 11000 Fahrenheit being applied continuously to every single square foot of the planet for 30 years straight to completely vitrify the planetary crust at a depth of 10 meters, and then apply cold to the planet at a temperature of less than 10 degrees Fahrenheit to the entire surface for about a 3 months after that to successfully crystallize the surface.

You're not going to get rid of that phrase without something to put in its place. Have you a suggestion for an alternate phrase? "Glassing a planet" is very short and gets the point across -- the point being exterminating the biosphere rather than what actually happens to the crust of said planet.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

You're not going to get rid of that phrase without something to put in its place. Have you a suggestion for an alternate phrase? "Glassing a planet" is very short and gets the point across -- the point being exterminating the biosphere rather than what actually happens to the crust of said planet.

 

Vitrify is probably the best technical term, but even then, it's inaccurate.

 

Basically other words that have been used ought to be better. Hell, extermination works better.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

How would you do that? All they have to do is fly towards the galaxy. It's kind of open. They really can just waltz on in.

 

We went through this a long time ago and I was told "don't take Bioware graphics seriously."

 

But if you do, and I used an astronomy program to get the approximate view of the galaxy from that point in ME2 where the Reapers were seeing it, and they're over 100,000 light years away from the edge of the Milky Way. They travel at 30 ly per day. Their destroyers have to discharge. Their capital ships don't. Also... fuel. That's a hell of a lot of fuel.

 

So the way I figure it is that they invented the newly patented Space Magic^TM drive around 2183 that was retroactively given to them by none other than the Super Mac Attack. Space Magic^TM drive requires no fuel and no discharging. It allows continuous FTL speeds of 1000 LY/day.

 

.... unless they had the radio on and were blasting the right tunes. If you do that you can get a hell of a lot of extra mileage when that needle is on E.

 

But don't stop and think about that stuff because the ME3 plot will fall apart even more than watching a child climb tall buildings and get into a ventilation duct, survive a blast from a reaper, and say something that no child would say because he's not a child! He's a figment of Shepard's imagination. Shepard's brain spent too much time in contact with a vacuum.

[KaiserShep]

Vitrify is probably the best technical term, but even then, it's inaccurate.

 

Basically other words that have been used ought to be better. Hell, extermination works better.

 

Technical terms don't really matter when it comes to figures of speech. If you got into a fight and you only punched your opponent to subdue him, you still kicked his ass.

[Han Shot First]

We tried that. The Reapers were trapped in dark space.

 

They just came in the long way. Nothing is stopping them from actually moving.

 

The decision to have the Reapers simply hit the gas and arrive at the Milky Way by conventional FTL was one of the mistakes made with the series. If the Reapers could have simply flown into the Milky Way without the use of the relay system, why bother with the Sovereign/Saren plot when the Keepers failed to respond? The Reapers end up losing the element of surprise by putting into effect a plan they didn't need.

 

I think the series would have been better off had Bioware stuck with the Reapers being stuck in Dark Space and needing to use the relay system to jump into the Milky Way.

[KaiserShep]

One good way to ensure that they're trapped would be that they'd simply not be able to maintain power if they flew all the way out from dark space. Having them be immune to lack of power, fuel and whatever else added on to their overpowered nature.

[themikefest]

ME3 is the starting point for the trilogy. So the reapers flying into the Milky Way works.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

One good way to ensure that they're trapped would be that they'd simply not be able to maintain power if they flew all the way out from dark space. Having them be immune to lack of power, fuel and whatever else added on to their overpowered nature.

 

The thing about that is that all they'd have to do is turn on, achieve their maximum acceleration, and then power down and let their momentum do the job for them.

[AlanC9]

I think the series would have been better off had Bioware stuck with the Reapers being stuck in Dark Space and needing to use the relay system to jump into the Milky Way.

Since we've already swallowed that level of Reaper stupidity if we've tolerated ME1, I can see the point.

[AlanC9]

The thing about that is that all they'd have to do is turn on, achieve their maximum acceleration, and then power down and let their momentum do the job for them.

They'd still need to maintain their mass effect fields unless they want to limit themselves to lightspeed.

[JasonShepard]

The Reapers built the Relays. That includes the Citadel and it's counterpart in Dark Space. To pull that off they have to be capable of flying between the two without using a relay. You can't use a relay before it's built.

 

So the fact that the Citadel and it's counterpart exist (ME1 knowledge) was always proof that the Reapers would be capable of invading by taking the long route. ME1 would have had to have been rewritten such that the Citadel Relay was a natural wormhole or something for them to be genuinely trapped.

 

That said, there's no real reason for the journey time to only be 3 years (aside from plot reasons of keeping the games close together timewise). This being a species that doesn't blink an eyelid at scouring the galaxy clean for a couple of centuries...