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[Jacksper]

Not that this is a versus thread but I have been reading on both the Legion of the Dead, and the Grey Wardens in other forums similar to this one and I see that some people think that Wardens are vastly overrated.  While others think that the Legion of the Dead is simply underrated.  

 

So... This is not to be a thread where I think I know it all, I just wanted to share my opinion and learn the opinions of others.  Not actually ask a question.

 

IMO: The Legion of the Dead and the Grey Wardens are both very capable factions.  They both focus heavily on fighting Darkspawn and as a result are probably skilled warriors Darkspawn or no.  They also have no problem with losing their lives to fight for what they believe in, and will go to great lengths to achieve victory.  

 

Now in some of the forums I read the Legion was considered better than the Wardens because the Wardens were overrated.  Most people in those particular threads saw the Wardens as "Spawn sensors who had no real talent and were not all that capable as fighters in general", which in my opinion is not only insulting to Bioware trying to make this incredible faction of warriors who give their lives as saviors, but also incredibly incorrect.  

 

To me the Wardens are formidable because of those they choose to allow into their ranks.  They choose the best from ALL races, the Warden recruit must have good leadership skills, combat experience, and of course be one of the best fighters in his or her field of expertise.  The Wardens recruit from ALL races, not just dwarves or humans but also elves and I assume they would accept qunari who wanted to join their ranks.  All of this plays to their favor, and another thing the Wardens have, is despite their small number (which may just be a matter of choice, not just the mortality rate of those who undergo the Joining) they have powerful magic, as they allow blood magic and other more obscure forms of magic to be used as well as questionable tactics which are reckless but effective.  The Legion themselves don't have magic, they are only Dwarves, and though they may represent the best of their people, their people are still dying out.  If I am not mistaken, at the end of DA:O a Dwarf Noble can ask that humans help fight the spawn underground, and with the help of the humans, they are able to regain lost thaigs (Although I believe Bhelen becoming king also has this affect). 

 

I said all of this, not because I am strictly biased that the Wardens are  better than the Legion, but just because in all the forums I saw, I only noticed how Wardens were regarded with "Superficial notoriety", one person went as far as to equate the Grey Warden Legend to that of the reputation of the United States Marine Corp, where some of the stories about the Marines were completely false, but were not refuted by the marines simply because they enjoyed the legend.  Let us not forget, the First Blight lasted for 90 years and during that time, it destroyed the great Dwarven Empire (Before the Legion of the Dead) bringing the Dwarves to only four cities, until the Grey Wardens came.  Men and Women, who gave their lives to fight the Darkspawn and save their homelands, they sacrificed everything and won.  The few that they were, still managed to change the course of a war that lasted for 90 years!

 

Now the Legion on the other hand are also impressive.  Any group, who can withstand a superior force for such a long time is indeed notable at the least, and legendary at the most.  This Legion is one of the few that aren't Grey Warden that are known for fighting Darkspawn successfully, and they devend Orzamar and I suspect that without the Legion the last great city of the Dwarves (before the rediscovery of that other, I forget it's name) would have fallen a long time ago.  Now, standing in between spawn and their dinner is no easy task, for this I believe the Legion is also comprised of the best that the Dwarves have to offer (even more so than the Wardens, who are mainly a human involved group) and thus their combat may even be more specific to spawn than that of the Wardens.  There are more Legionaires than there are Wardens, which gives them an edge in numbers.  Being around the spawn all the time probably gives Dwarves a higher likelihood of surviving contact with the Taint (as the Taint affects their ability to reproduce I would assume it gives them a resistance to its affects as well, just as the Grey Wardens cannot bear children well either).  This probably means that the Legion is comprised of very, very capable warriors, who although only ever being few, compared to the great armies of men, are still able to do more than their Surface counterparts.

 

However, if I had to compare Legion vs Wardens I'd have to give it to the Wardens.  There is simply too much evidence that the Wardens are in fact the most crucial role in defeating Darkspawn, (even if this is just for the sake of plot) the Warden from DA:O managed to gather an army and unite all of Ferelden against the Blight INCLUDING (Or possibly including) the Legion of the Dead.  The Warden's ability to be unit multipliers, the skill it takes to become a Warden, and maybe even the special properties they gain from the Taint.  Make Grey Wardens too valuable in my opinion, to lose.  Whereas the Legion serves as a warding against Darkspawn that attack Orzamar, they simply cannot, and will not be able to match the importance of a Grey Warden.

 

~My opinion ends here     

[rosey1579]

Woah... so much text... My eyes are watering...
Someone can be both Legion of the dead AND Grey warden! Take a well known Awakenings character for example! I'm sure that's your favourite NPC! Do your opinions differ? Do you know who I'm talking about? I'm going for spoiler-free!

[ShadowLordXII]

Nice post.

 

In terms of fighting the darkspawn, I'd consider wardens to be more reliable between them and the legionnaire.

 

But in terms of overall fighting ability, I'd give that edge to the legionnaire despite the wardens also having mages in their ranks. Because the legionnaires consider themselves already dead, so they'll fight as if they have nothing to lose. Wardens also have a fatalist edge, but how each warden incorporates that into their job depends on their background and personality. Which means you'll have some wardens who are less eager/willing to be the "ideal warden" and others who probably don't even care about being "ideal wardens" (Alistair and Anders for example)

[gottaloveme]

Yes - I would say both are much of a muchness as regards fighting ability and are complementary. The Legion (bless their little stockinged feet) also give a path to redemption for their members. They remain in the Deep Roads.

 

The wardens remain vigilant above ground waiting for the next AD

[dragonflight288]

Very nice bit of text OP, but need to correct one thing. The first blight wasn't 90 years, it was much longer, but it took 90 years to end the second blight. . The actual first blight, when it went to the surface lasted from 800 TE to 992 TE.

 

192 years.  

[Jacksper]

Very nice bit of text OP, but need to correct one thing. The first blight wasn't 90 years, it was much longer, but it took 90 years to end the second blight. . The actual first blight, when it went to the surface lasted from 800 TE to 992 TE.

192 years.

I see your point, I do wonder if the Grey Wardens still had their griffons how much more formidable would they be?

[rosey1579]

^^ I bet the legion of the dead started with griffons! That's probably where the rumours that without a ceiling you will fall up into the sky came from!

[LeeAmnesia]

I have to say, I'm much more impressed by The Legion. They are successful in holding back the darkspawn without magic, the taint, or hope, for that matter. Fighting for tomorrow when you don't even care to see it? That's badass. Unfortunately, I've just proved that all legionnaires are hipsters...

[bunch1]

I have to say that the Legion is a bit overrated.  You have to remember that the Grey Wardens select only the best to undergo the joining, not just anyone can apply.  Even in the warden's class Duncan say's they have desperate need for new wardens and yet in all of Ferelden he's only found 3 candidates, the warden's skill are up in the air but undoubtedly impressive, ser Jory won a tournament of knights and nobles held in Highever to impress Duncan and Daveth managed to escape and elude Duncan and with a death sentence Duncan was willing to take a risk on him, and those that survive are forced to accept that they will never be able to avoid their fate since the calling is now a ticking time bomb in their blood. 

 

In contrast the Legion will take anything with a pulse into their ranks.  The best warriors in dwarven society don't join the legion, their is no glory in it for them and the legionaries never seem to return to from the Deep Roads so few nobles would embrace that life.  While their may be some who joined to fight darkspawn, the warriors and nobles can do that on their own as we see in both dwarf origin stories since the nobles and warriors in the proving, not members of the legion, have often proved themselves in the deep roads against the darkspawn.  If anyone joined to fight darkwspwn  they would likely have been members of lesser caste with not combat training prior to joining, that is to say servants, miners, merchants, smiths, and even the castles are allowed to fight in the legion and no where else.  The only nobles and warriors you're likely to find in the legion are those who dishonored their families and were forced to join the legion to restore their honor and spare their families the shame they earned.  I imagine the mortality rates of the legion are extraordinary, particularly in new legionaries first few battles since I don't see the legion being able to hold them back for 2 or 3 years of training, instead just giving them the basic and throwing them into action and those that survive will come out blooded veterans.

 

One thing that also must be said is the fact that while the darkspwn are always pressing on the dwarven cities, they have been far more interested in trying to find the old gods buried underground to bring about a new archdeamon and thus another blight.  In the first few centuries when the dwarfs were at there height they lost more then half their empire, at yet in the last thousands years they've only lost 2 cities?  Obviously the darkspawn numbers have not diminished and likely have only grown and yet they are content to just peck at them slowly so I don't believe we can attribute the survival of the Orzammar to the legion.

 

As for which is the greater military force? 

 

Both sides have access to top tier weapons and armor so in terms of equipment I would say they are equal. 

 

In terms of the actual fighting prowess of the two groups members I would say the wardens likely come out ahead, they are drawn from those who generally have years of extensive training and with a lower mortality rate they are able to gather years of further training and experiences while most legionaries will probably be dead within the first few years of joining.  While wardens are often seen in the deep roads and fighting darkspawn on the surface they are able to know in advance where they are and so avoid ambushes while the legionnaires would likely see more action and suffer many ambushes in the darkspawn infested deep roads and thaigs, even skilled fighters will die if they are taken by surprise and the continues action will expose them to more and more danger allowing one lucky shot to fell their most experienced fighters.  In addition wardens do fight other beings on the surface when they aren't chasing darkwpan so overall I would say they are the more experienced and skilled fighters.

 

Next is the numbers.  Obviously the legion is a large fighting force likely several thousand strong.  The wardens are a trickier one to guess.  They are a international group and before the blight there were at least a couple dozen wardens in Ferelden I would say they likely number a few hundred full members, through their may be several hundred in the Anderfells alone for all we know.  But if I remember right the wardens often have their own support troops who help man their fortress and support them in battle.  So it may be that combined with their men-at-arms, who would be professional soldiers, they actually out number the legion.  But if you just counting the grey wardens then the Legion will likely have the numbers edge. 

 

Who would win in a fight?  If you got all the wardens to fight the entire legion I would bet on the wardens.  The legion may outnumber them but so do the darkspwn and they are used to being outnumbered and their decades of training and combat experience combined with numerous mages not shackled by the chantry's laws and I don't see the legion wining.  Unless the legion outnumbers them ten to one I don't see them being able to take down the wardens quickly enough.  The warden warriors would be upfront cutting down the green horn legion members and engaging the more experienced members as well while receiving the support from rouges and mages in the rear casting healing spells and protective wards as well as throwing destructive spells, arrows and grenades into the legion.  I'm sure there would be a few legion scouts holding back firing arrows into the wardens but they wouldn't be able to match the destructive level of the warden support infantry.