181 réponses à ce sujet

[Former_Fiend]

If they're going to gate by gender, I'd rather they also gate by race. One or the other just seems arbitrary. I wouldn't mind gating against mages or some specializations, either.

 

I wouldn't mind 4-6 characters that are available to everyone, either, though.  

 

Gating by gender is representation of sexual orientation. Gating by race is an arbitrary limit on player choice that serves no purpose.

 

I agree that class and specialization gating makes story sense. Cullen romancing a Reaver-quisitor would be a much bigger blow to any character depth than him romancing a qunari.

[Chari]

Gating by gender is representation of sexual orientation. Gating by race is an arbitrary limit on player choice that serves no purpose.

I agree that class and specialization gating makes story sense. Cullen romancing a Reaver-quisitor would be a much bigger blow to any character depth than him romancing a qunari.

Gating by race is representation of tastes. Not everyone finds every race attractive and that is absolutely normal

[Who Knows]

Having gay (and bisexual) characters is important for representation, having characters who aren't attracted to certain fictional races is not.

[Former_Fiend]

Gating by race is representation of tastes. Not everyone finds every race attractive and that is absolutely normal

 

In all the vast array of qualities that make up the span of tastes, height, horns, and pointy ears are the only qualifiers that merit representation?

 

I'll be more willing to accept this argument when abuse of the face sliders at character creation get gated in the name of personal taste.

[Chari]

Having gay (and bisexual) characters is important for representation, having characters who aren't attracted to certain fictional races is not.

It makes more believable and complex characters. When it comes to a personality of a character every detail matters. Yes, even taste in food. Can you imagine Sten without his love for cookies? Or Lelianna without her love for shoes? Or if Merrill didn't like green so much she wore mostly green coloured clothes?
These are minor details but they make the characters more alive

[Chari]

In all the vast array of qualities that make up the span of tastes, height, horns, and pointy ears are the only qualifiers that merit representation?

I'll be more willing to accept this argument when abuse of the face sliders at character creation get gated in the name of personal taste.

It is a representation of tastes, not even races. Yes, some folk don't like tall bulky men like qunari. Some folk prefer slender elflike people. Some prefer curvy women like dwarves.

The character creator doesn't have any scripted characteristics hence they can't be used. It is too vague to be counted. Now, if we did have specific presets only I could see them being important as well

[Icy Magebane]

@Chari - That's all well and good, but keep in mind that at this point, unless you're planning on playing multiple genders and races, you're only going to have 1-2 possibilities tops.  Race gating would be easier to deal with if we had more options but... right now it just seems like even more limitations than we already had... oh well.  Humans most likely aren't going to race gated so I guess this won't even effect me much.  It adds complexity but again... just not enough options to go around for this to be justified IMO.

[Former_Fiend]

It is a representation of tastes, not even races. Yes, some folk don't like tall bulky men like qunari. Some folk prefer slender elflike people. Some prefer curvy women like dwarves.

The character creator doesn't have any scripted characteristics hence they can't be used. It is too vague to be counted. Now, if we did have specific presets only I could see them being important as well

 

Some people love tall, powerfully built individuals. Some people wouldn't touch someone as skinny as an elf. Some people absolutely fetishize people as short as dwarves.

 

I'm not denying that these tastes exists. I'm denying that they add anything to the character beyond a random quirk which is not worth the trade off in player choice as far as I am concerned.

 

I'm also asserting that due to the vast array of preferences, beyond anything bioware will able be capable of representing in game, the ones that do make it into the game are arbitrarily chosen and do nothing but limit the player experience. This does not enhance my gaming experience. In fact I would say that as far as I'm concerned this actively harms my experience because you're going to have characters who'll refuse romance based on race but will, in all likelihood, hop into bed with someone who eats the flesh of their enemies or raises corpses to fight for them. Does that help define a character? Sure. That defines them as someone I don't want to associate with because of how skewed their priorities are. 

[Maria Caliban]

@Chari - That's all well and good, but keep in mind that at this point, unless you're planning on playing multiple genders and races, you're only going to have 1-2 possibilities tops.

This is exactly the same as every other BioWare game I've played, save for the ones where I got 0 options.

[Former_Fiend]

And another thing- and this may just be me, maybe my horizons are just that much broader than some others, but I don't look at preferences as being something set in stone. 

 

I have preferences when it comes to women. I prefer brunettes to red heads, red heads to blondes. I prefer women about five foot four or so. I prefer a certain amount of curvature. 

 

But I've dated blondes, I've dated women 5'10", I've dated women with flat chests and flat asses. Because what I prefer above everything is personality. The ability to have a conversation. The ability to make me laugh and appreciate my own humor. A creative streak. Passions. 

 

Because while I have preferences in terms of appearance, I find a woman's personality far more attractive than any physical quality. So one I find a woman with those qualities that actually matter, I set aside those physical preferences because there are things that are far more important than that.

[KaiserShep]

I'll be more willing to accept this argument when abuse of the face sliders at character creation get gated in the name of personal taste.

 

Oh man, imagine if BioWare ever added a mechanic where there was a certain standard of beauty scripted into each character in which only a fraction of the character creator settings would correspond with. I can almost taste the fan tears.

 

Anyway, as for race-gating, I'm fairly indifferent, but I'm very curious as to how this is going to be implemented. I don't expect any character to say something to the effect of "Ew, I don't dig oxmen", but I wonder how ol' Inqy's advances will be shot down, assuming that advances can be made to all regardless.

[Icy Magebane]

This is exactly the same as every other BioWare game I've played, save for the ones where I got 0 options.

While that may be true (although not really for Mass Effect 2 and 3), we still didn't have a large number of potential romances only to find that they are blocked off by various restrictions.  Gender restrictions were more than enough...  But now people want race and even class restrictions?  lol...  We don't even get 1 opposite-gender romance for each race, and somehow we're just supposed to accept race gating?  I get the logic, but I just can't agree with this idea.  Good in theory, bad in practice due to limited choices to begin with...

 

In fact, haven't we been getting more romance options in each successive game?  Isn't DA:I going in the opposite direction?  Seems like that's been the case since ME and DAO at least...

[LPPrince]

I absolutely fully support race gating in Inquisition. So yes.

[Former_Fiend]

Oh man, imagine if BioWare ever added a mechanic where there was a certain standard of beauty scripted into each character in which only a fraction of the character creator settings would correspond with. I can almost taste the fan tears.

 

Anyway, as for race-gating, I'm fairly indifferent, but I'm very curious as to how this is going to be implemented. I don't expect any character to say something to the effect of "Ew, I don't dig oxmen", but I wonder how ol' Inqy's advances will be shot down, assuming that advances can be made to all regardless.

 

If the two racegated romances' sole reason for race gating is a matter of taste, then there is a standard of beauty being imposed as a game mechanic. It's a standard held by only two of the eight(and not necessarily the same standard), and a standard relating to the factors mentioned above(height, horns, pointy ears), but a standard of beauty none the less.

 

That's another point of interest for me, as Dave pointed out a few pages ago. The only way for this to impact a LI's character is if it gets brought up. Are we going to get a "Oh, good think you're [insert appropriate race here], because I'm totally not into [insert restricted race here]?" Will a race gated LI's character really be defined if their flirt option just isn't there for the restricted races? I don't think so.

[Icy Magebane]

Hey, so do you all think they'll at least tell us who's going to be race gated and how in advance, or is that going to be something we discover 20 hours into the game?

[KC_Prototype]

I think it's good because it adds to the character. It's makes the character more believable.

[Former_Fiend]

I'm still asking for the companion who is completely romance material but absolutely refuses to romance the PC because the PC is in shape and the companion is only interested in heavyset lovers.

 

Now that's believable.

[Maria Caliban]

While that may be true (although not really for Mass Effect 2 and 3)...

Yes really for ME 2 and 3.

... we still didn't have a large number of potential romances only to find that they are blocked off by various restrictions.

Er, ME 2 had Miranda, Jack, Tali, and Liara. Only one of those could be romances by a woman. So far we know Cassandra, Josephine, and Sera for DA:I, and two of them are available.

3:2 is better than 4:1.

It's even better if you do guys: Thane, Garrus, and Jacob were all unavailable to male players. That's 3:0 for ME vs 3:2 for DA:I, and we're probably going to get one more bisexual male.

[Chari]

Some people love tall, powerfully built individuals. Some people wouldn't touch someone as skinny as an elf. Some people absolutely fetishize people as short as dwarves.

I'm not denying that these tastes exists. I'm denying that they add anything to the character beyond a random quirk which is not worth the trade off in player choice as far as I am concerned.

I'm also asserting that due to the vast array of preferences, beyond anything bioware will able be capable of representing in game, the ones that do make it into the game are arbitrarily chosen and do nothing but limit the player experience. This does not enhance my gaming experience. In fact I would say that as far as I'm concerned this actively harms my experience because you're going to have characters who'll refuse romance based on race but will, in all likelihood, hop into bed with someone who eats the flesh of their enemies or raises corpses to fight for them. Does that help define a character? Sure. That defines them as someone I don't want to associate with because of how skewed their priorities are.

If you have a problem playing a specific race then, frankly, it is your problem. This is an RPG. Playing only as one race, gender or class is a player's decision and responsibility, since they're given a choice and decide not to take it

Who said I am for characters not caring about the PC's choices? Fenris romancing proslavery Hawke was bull****. And I hope this time the LIs indeed will care about what we do. Not just what we say
Sides, some people do have very... Interesting priorities... Some people are just like this. Maybe for you appearance doesn't matter but to some it does... And there is nothing wrong with that as long as they don't insult people

[Icy Magebane]

@ Maria Caliban - Okay, I'll admit I wasn't really looking at it that way.  When you take into account 2 genders and 4 sexual preferences (or is that 2... wait, now I'm confusing myself... you get my point I'm sure), it's more complicated than a straight upgrade in numbers each game... so, that's a fair point you make.

 

Edit:  Yeah...  I was kind of on the fence about what race I wanted to play but in light of this I think I'll just go with human and avoid this issue entirely... this just too much of a hassle on top of not having a city elf option.

[Elite Midget]

These aren't the average person off the street either, they're fairly unique and are going on a very crazy and outlandish quests. What bias they may or may not have will have to take a back seat to them.

 

Furthermore, if I was a Companion and had a Great Leader who always watched out for me, said the right things, was a pretty cool person that listened to what I had said, considered my opinions, and helped out even when I was too stubborn to ask than I would find myself opening up and maybe even falling for them regardless of my preferences before this all started.

[Former_Fiend]

If you have a problem playing a specific race then, frankly, it is your problem. This is an RPG. Playing only as one race, gender or class is a player's decision and responsibility, since they're given a choice and decide not to take it

Who said I am for characters not caring about the PC's choices? Fenris romancing proslavery Hawke was bull****. And I hope this time the LIs indeed will care about what we do. Not just what we say
Sides, some people do have very... Interesting priorities... Some people are just like this. Maybe for you appearance doesn't matter but to some it does... And there is nothing wrong with that as long as they don't insult people

 

See, thing is, I don't have a problem playing a specific race. I am by all likely hood going to play every race at least once.

 

But I shouldn't have to go through a specific race to romance a specific character. That's a limit on the stories I can tell as the player. Let's say Varric's romanceable only to dwarf females as some have predicted; the the only romance story you can tell with Varric is dwarf/dwarf. You can't tell the dwarf/elf story. You can't tell the dwarf/human story. You can't tell the dwarf/qunari story. The only option you've given the player is dwarf/dwarf. 

 

That's one of my main problems; that it limits us. 

 

Continuing with this example, I think it adds more to Varric's character that he was using the "I'm not into humans" line to cover his lingering feelings for Bianca rather than actually not being into humans. The former shows the struggle of a man who can't let go of his past and is letting his life slip through his fingers while holding onto a memory. The latter shows a man who doesn't like women taller than him. Those two options do not give an equal amount of character depth.

[Chari]

See, thing is, I don't have a problem playing a specific race. I am by all likely hood going to play every race at least once.

But I shouldn't have to go through a specific race to romance a specific character. That's a limit on the stories I can tell as the player. Let's say Varric's romanceable only to dwarf females as some have predicted; the the only romance story you can tell with Varric is dwarf/dwarf. You can't tell the dwarf/elf story. You can't tell the dwarf/human story. You can't tell the dwarf/qunari story. The only option you've given the player is dwarf/dwarf.

That's one of my main problems; that it limits us.

Continuing with this example, I think it adds more to Varric's character that he was using the "I'm not into humans" line to cover his lingering feelings for Bianca rather than actually not being into humans. The former shows the struggle of a man who can't let go of his past and is letting his life slip through his fingers while holding onto a memory. The latter shows a man who doesn't like women taller than him. Those two options do not give an equal amount of character depth.

It doesn't. It gives a romance a unique flavour. Some romances are culturally coloured. Let's say a LI is dalish who isn't interested in humans (and no, it doesn't make such a LI racist. Leave poor dalish alone). Some people would call it limiting, I say it makes their romance more unique and opens a whole new layer of lore. Elven traditions, elven culture, rituals... Same with any same race romances
As for LIs who aren't interested in one specific rave maybe it is due to their social status (Vivienne), or personal preferences (Varric).

Can't Varric be both? Still love Bianca and don't find tall people very attractive? Just look how elves look in his story. Poor bugeyed anorexic navi...

[Matdeception]

So Former_Friend... how would you suggest such a thing be fixed?

 

Let's use Varric as an example, since he was recently brought up. He has out-right stated he is not into humans, you extend the example to include potentially possible reasons as to why he actually has nothing against humans, but was using it as a blanket excuse to cover him with this whole Bianca thing. Is this possible? Sure. But the question I re-direct to you...

 

What if him saying 'I'm not into humans' is literally just that, his honest opinion on his sexual orientations? Only the writer/creator for Varric could say for certain, but let's operate on the potential fact he is, indeed, simply not interested in humans at all? Would you still be upset there is no dwarf/human story? Would you really want the developers to bastardize his character in order to suit the people who want to say the line, "Heh... Varric went up on me."?

 

Thinking it's unfair is understandable, but complaining about being 'limited' because of how the character was made to be is not. Personally I equate such a thought with media censorship; Them telling us only what they want us to hear while conveniently ignoring the sheep in the background. I digress, what alternate methods would you suggest that A; Doesn't limit us, but B; Doesn't trash the characters set beliefs?

 

One note, however; If they're just race-gating due to technological reasons, well, while it sucks there really ain't nothing we can about it. That gives a good perch to lament the race-gating, though.

[Former_Fiend]

So Former_Friend... how would you suggest such a thing be fixed?

 

Let's use Varric as an example, since he was recently brought up. He has out-right stated he is not into humans, you extend the example to include potentially possible reasons as to why he actually has nothing against humans, but was using it as a blanket excuse to cover him with this whole Bianca thing. Is this possible? Sure. But the question I re-direct to you...

 

What if him saying 'I'm not into humans' is literally just that, his honest opinion on his sexual orientations? Only the writer/creator for Varric could say for certain, but let's operate on the potential fact he is, indeed, simply not interested in humans at all? Would you still be upset there is no dwarf/human story? Would you really want the developers to bastardize his character in order to suit the people who want to say the line, "Heh... Varric went up on me."?

 

Thinking it's unfair is understandable, but complaining about being 'limited' because of how the character was made to be is not. Personally I equate such a thought with media censorship; Them telling us only what they want us to hear while conveniently ignoring the sheep in the background. I digress, what alternate methods would you suggest that A; Doesn't limit us, but B; Doesn't trash the characters set beliefs?

 

One note, however; If they're just race-gating due to technological reasons, well, while it sucks there really ain't nothing we can about it. That gives a good perch to lament the race-gating, though.

 

If Varric isn't into humans, then while playing a dwarf female I would like the option to reject a romance with him and explicitly say that I'm doing it because he's a dwarf and I prefer my men to be taller.

 

What's good for the goose, and all that.