181 réponses à ce sujet

[Matdeception]

If Varric isn't into humans, then while playing a dwarf female I would like the option to reject a romance with him and explicitly say that I'm doing it because he's a dwarf and I prefer my men to be taller.

 

What's good for the goose, and all that.

 

Fair enough. I've long wished for a contextual system that actually relays what my character is truly thinking, rather then an arbitrary Paragon, Sacarstic, Renegade approach we've taken too in ME and DA2. I can't even begin to imagine how you can fit a context system in, especially given peoples reasonings for any choice would largely be colored by the perspective of the character they have created and role played to that point.

 

For instance; Warden in DA:O, a truly awesome guy, but a bit of a womanizer given his background. Frankly, he slept around because he felt it was his due as a nobleman. He'd become extremely uncomfortable when people would start talking about romance and love and crap, because he really didn't see what that had to do with being intimate.

 

On the other side of things; City Elf with a hard understanding of the world who refused to bow to anyone, and was not only timid, but fearful of the 'soft touch' as it were. Took a bit of finagling for Leli to get into his heart (I kept this represent by purposefully lowering her affection with feastday gifts until the story line helped temper the characters persona.

 

Though those are ultimately restrictions I placed on myself, and enjoyed the game none-the-less. I certainly didn't need Bioware putting in voiced lines dictating as such, I simply asserted it into my personal head-canon story and moved on. But hey... guess I'm weird like that.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

I'm indifferent but hope it'll be less punishing for anyone who pick any races than isn't human for PC in the future Dragon Age games.

[Mistress9Nine]

I'm for race gating, as long as it overall doesn't exclude a group from the experince. For example

 

- only dwarf males can have a straight romance -> bad

- there is a straight male romance racegated to dwarves -> cool

[ObserverStatus]

 

If they gender gate or race gate the desire demon who my Warden left living inside of Connor Guerrin in Redridge, I'm cancelling my pre-order.

[Icy Magebane]

Yes really for ME 2 and 3.


Er, ME 2 had Miranda, Jack, Tali, and Liara. Only one of those could be romances by a woman. So far we know Cassandra, Josephine, and Sera for DA:I, and two of them are available.

3:2 is better than 4:1.

It's even better if you do guys: Thane, Garrus, and Jacob were all unavailable to male players. That's 3:0 for ME vs 3:2 for DA:I, and we're probably going to get one more bisexual male.

You know what?  I just realized there's really no reason for me to just let this slide... Counting the number of gay and lesbian options in games prior to them being offered with any kind of regularity is totally unreasonable.   ME3 provides several lesbian options, but prior to that it wasn't even on the radar for this company, so how is that a valid argument?  One is more than we'd ever seen before (I think... something tells me that I'm forgetting something from Jade Empire... if not, the statement stands), so that's already an improvement.  The same applies to gay male options... these simply were not priorities until DA:O, DA2, and ME3, all of which provided more options with each subsequent title, exactly as I stated.  Trying to confuse the issue with gay only statistics that I probably wouldn't be familiar with or ready to counter is a little unfair, especially when those statistics don't even support your contention.  My original point stands.  We've been getting more romances with each Bioware game, and yes that includes more gay and lesbian romances which went from completely absent to having equal representation in a matter of years.  That's actually impressive IMO.

 

That said, DA:I may boast a high number of options overall, but will provide more specialized options that cater to certain groups, hence less options for each player... and that's before race gating, which just adds another, IMO unnecessary, layer.

 

I just had to say that.  TBH I think I'm done with this topic since it's not really even my fight.  I'm not going to play a Qunari in love with Varric or something... but even so I don't think it's fair.  Granted, it is realistic in a sense, but this limitation is not needed to make the characters seem unique...

 

I mean come on... you can't even have a male and female elf couple, and this is the third game that's been this way!  LOL... ridiculous.

[daveliam]

You know what?  I just realized there's really no reason for me to just let this slide... Counting the number of gay and lesbian options in games prior to them being offered with any kind of regularity is totally unreasonable.   ME3 provides several lesbian options, but prior to that it wasn't even on the radar for this company, so how is that a valid argument?  One is more than we'd ever seen before (I think... something tells me that I'm forgetting something from Jade Empire... if not, the statement stands), so that's already an improvement.  The same applies to gay male options... these simply were not priorities until DA:O, DA2, and ME3, all of which provided more options with each subsequent title, exactly as I stated.  Trying to confuse the issue with gay only statistics that I probably wouldn't be familiar with or ready to counter is a little unfair, especially when those statistics don't even support your contention.  My original point stands.  We've been getting more romances with each Bioware game, and yes that includes more gay and lesbian romances which went from completely absent to having equal representation in a matter of years.  That's actually impressive IMO.

 

There was a lesbian option in KOTOR (2003).  There was a bisexual female option in Neverwinter Nights: Kingmaker (2004).  There was both a bisexual male and female option in Jade Empire (2005).  There was a bisexual female option in Mass Effect (2007).  There was both a bisexual male and female option in Dragon Age: Origins (2009). 

 

So, no, Mass Effect 2 was not "before" it was common to have LGB options in Bioware games.  In fact, Mass Effect 2 was only the third Bioware game with romances up to that point that didn't have s/s options of some capacity in the vanilla game.

 

Your other point, about getting more and more LGB romances, however, is accurate.  The percentage of LGB romances is much higher now and Dragon Age 2 is the first game to offer more than one romance option for s/s players.  If the remaining LI's are both bisexual, DA: I will be the first game to offer more than two romance options for s/s players.    

[wiccame]

I actually don't mind it. It will give me incentive to play other races more often. I tend to stick to elves and humans but if say Varric (hint, hint) is a LI and gated to Dwarfs I would definitely roll a few of those!

[StarPepper_Az]

Yes

[Farci Reprimer]

I dont mind either. If it is only for one or two characters is it really a big deal?

[Psykohamster]

You know what?  I just realized there's really no reason for me to just let this slide... Counting the number of gay and lesbian options in games prior to them being offered with any kind of regularity is totally unreasonable.   ME3 provides several lesbian options, but prior to that it wasn't even on the radar for this company, so how is that a valid argument?  One is more than we'd ever seen before (I think... something tells me that I'm forgetting something from Jade Empire... if not, the statement stands), so that's already an improvement.  The same applies to gay male options... these simply were not priorities until DA:O, DA2, and ME3, all of which provided more options with each subsequent title, exactly as I stated.  Trying to confuse the issue with gay only statistics that I probably wouldn't be familiar with or ready to counter is a little unfair, especially when those statistics don't even support your contention.  My original point stands.  We've been getting more romances with each Bioware game, and yes that includes more gay and lesbian romances which went from completely absent to having equal representation in a matter of years.  That's actually impressive IMO.
 
That said, DA:I may boast a high number of options overall, but will provide more specialized options that cater to certain groups, hence less options for each player... and that's before race gating, which just adds another, IMO unnecessary, layer.
 
I just had to say that.  TBH I think I'm done with this topic since it's not really even my fight.  I'm not going to play a Qunari in love with Varric or something... but even so I don't think it's fair.  Granted, it is realistic in a sense, but this limitation is not needed to make the characters seem unique...
 
I mean come on... you can't even have a male and female elf couple, and this is the third game that's been this way!  LOL... ridiculous.

In Origins you could romance Zevran with a female elf, so your last point is flat out wrong.

[Ieldra]

My stance on this topic is exactly like my stance on gender gating: if the alternative is that implausibly, all characters have the same kind of omni-preference, then I'm not only not against it, but actively for it, and I will maintain that even where it personally disavantages my in specific cases (like Dorian being gay) because I find that believability and consistency of the world is harmed by the alternatives, and this is more important than giving everyone what they want in a romance.

 

Also, this may be an inevitable result of making romances less generic. That, too, I approve of, but it may mean there aren't any resources left for romances only appreciated by a small minority. Yet again, I may have been of that kind of minority here or there in Bioware games, but I still support this if it means we have less generic content.

[Former_Fiend]

Fair enough. I've long wished for a contextual system that actually relays what my character is truly thinking, rather then an arbitrary Paragon, Sacarstic, Renegade approach we've taken too in ME and DA2. I can't even begin to imagine how you can fit a context system in, especially given peoples reasonings for any choice would largely be colored by the perspective of the character they have created and role played to that point.

 

For instance; Warden in DA:O, a truly awesome guy, but a bit of a womanizer given his background. Frankly, he slept around because he felt it was his due as a nobleman. He'd become extremely uncomfortable when people would start talking about romance and love and crap, because he really didn't see what that had to do with being intimate.

 

On the other side of things; City Elf with a hard understanding of the world who refused to bow to anyone, and was not only timid, but fearful of the 'soft touch' as it were. Took a bit of finagling for Leli to get into his heart (I kept this represent by purposefully lowering her affection with feastday gifts until the story line helped temper the characters persona.

 

Though those are ultimately restrictions I placed on myself, and enjoyed the game none-the-less. I certainly didn't need Bioware putting in voiced lines dictating as such, I simply asserted it into my personal head-canon story and moved on. But hey... guess I'm weird like that.

 

Let's take another proposed example for a moment; one of the popular theories for restriction is that Cullen and Varric will be gated against qunari due to their experiences in Kirkwall.

 

The qunari inquisitor is a vashoth. They are not, and never were, part of the qun. They didn't take part in the attack on Kirkwall. As far as we know, they've never been to Kirkwall.

 

Can anyone tell me that the invasion of Kirkwall is at all a justified reason to hold a grudge against the qunari inquisitor?

 

If either of these particular reasons for gating show up, I would hope that they are presented as major character flaws for Cullen and Varric as opposed to justified attitudes.

[Magdalena11]

Let's take another proposed example for a moment; one of the popular theories for restriction is that Cullen and Varric will be gated against qunari due to their experiences in Kirkwall.

 

The qunari inquisitor is a vashoth. They are not, and never were, part of the qun. They didn't take part in the attack on Kirkwall. As far as we know, they've never been to Kirkwall.

 

Can anyone tell me that the invasion of Kirkwall is at all a justified reason to hold a grudge against the qunari inquisitor?

 

If either of these particular reasons for gating show up, I would hope that they are presented as major character flaws for Cullen and Varric as opposed to justified attitudes.

That's a theory I think is likely, and I also hope that they show the restrictions on how the companions interact with the inquisitor in terms of race is part of their character in more ways than as a potential LI.  Some players may see a major part of a companion's personality, like who they're interested in, as character flaws, and others may see them as a long-awaited chance to have a companion who is interested specifically in the inquisitor they want to play.

 

Edit:  As long as the race gating isn't humans and elves only.  I'm looking forward to unique chances to RP, not ones that have been explored to their fullest potential.

Modifié par Magdalena11, 21 juillet 2014 - 04:36 .

[Celtic Latino]

Simple: If it fits the character/story, yes.

[Former_Fiend]

That's a theory I think is likely, and I also hope that they show the restrictions on how the companions interact with the inquisitor in terms of race is part of their character in more ways than as a potential LI.  Some players may see a major part of a companion's personality, like who they're interested in, as character flaws, and others may see them as a long-awaited chance to have a companion who is interested specifically in the inquisitor they want to play.

 

Edit:  As long as the race gating isn't humans and elves only.  I'm looking forward to unique chances to RP, not ones that have been explored to their fullest potential.

 

 

Is that the attraction, here? That, hypothetically, if Varric is gated for dwarf females only it means if one plays a dwarf female that inquisitor is somehow more special than any other inquisitor? Am I misreading that?

 

Reminds me of a facebook status I saw a long while back. This girl was complaining how her boyfriend was such a nice guy; when he was nice and sweet to her, it make her feel special. But because he was just a nice guy in general, he was nice to everyone, so seeing that, she didn't feel special anymore. Indeed, she said that watching him be nice to other people made her feel "like sh*t". 

 

If I'm reading this right there's a similar mentality going on here. The compatible inquiistors get to feel special in the knowledge that their gated LI only has eyes for them and wouldn't be interested in any of the restricted races.

 

That's...I don't know what that is, but it's nothing I want any part of.

[Inprea]

I'm fine with race gating. If the target of my qunari's affection doesn't find her attractive then that's fair. Physical attraction isn't the only thing in a relationship but I do believe it's important. I'll be a little sad if my qunari mage is limited to only one romance due to being a mage and qunari but if it makes sense that's fine. It won't be the first bioware game my character didn't romance anyone.

 

My Dark Side Revan thought Carth cried too much and wasn't interested in a cat. That said cats are pure awesome.

[Deviija]

I'll need to see how and why it is done in Inquisition before I make a judgement on how it is used here.  

 

But race-gating in the sense that a character is racist and their reason for being race-gated is, "all of x race are ugly people with ugly features and ugly racist racism race race," then nope.  Don't want that at all.  

[90s Luke]

Have any of the writers implied or stated outright that "story reasons" = racism?

[daveliam]

Have any of the writers implied or stated outright that "story reasons" = racism?

 

Nope.  "Story reasons" is as undefined as it sounds.  The "racism" discussion comes from speculation that the "reasons" will be that a character "just isn't attracted to" a particular race.  That's not coming from the devs, though, in my understanding. 

[Former_Fiend]

Perhaps I'm letting my anger over the subject cloud my imagination, but I honestly don't know what story reasons for race gating wouldn't have the character as racist in one way or another.

 

There are practical reasons such as King Alistair breaking it off with an elf or a dwarf or a mage, but that isn't a reason to stop the romance from starting in the first place, just a reason why it's going to end badly.

[Icy Magebane]

In Origins you could romance Zevran with a female elf, so your last point is flat out wrong.

So what?  One sentence doesn't invalidate everything else I said, and this only applies to female PCs in the first place...  It's obvious what I was talking about, so get over yourself.

[Battlebloodmage]

Against it, being rejected for your race in real life is bad enough, being rejected in video games as well is just extra annoying. It's a game to escape fantasy, not to be judge for what you look like. Not everyone can be humans or white.

[schall_und_rauch]

I like the idea of racegating for several reasons.

It makes the characters more fleshed out. Their attitude towards a particular race is part of their personality. A bland "and love is universal, so they should love me no matter what I play (whereas I absolutely need to romance this particular companion, because he is so attractive)" just sounds extremely limiting for the character of the LIs.

Not only that, but a race-specific romance can be so much more individual and culturally specific that it adds another dimension that would be lost in a generic romance.

 

I believe that some people here neglect two things:

a) While racism is (rightfully) frowned upon in our modern value system, it's the cultural norm in Thedas. Our companions aren't perfectly good angels who exist outside the rules of the society's in Thedas and conform to a modern, progressive, enlightened value system. They are very much a representation of the different beliefs of Thedas -- and differing attitudes towards other races is one aspect that is just so normal.

Race is in Thedas much more than just the form of the body. In almost all cases, race defines not only your childhood peer group (much more than in modern USA), but also your cultural identity, your religion, your value system, your class, your past, etc. I think it's entirely reasonable for Vivienne to look only for a "noble" romance, considering anything different beneath her station. And I think it's similarly reasonable that elves might not fulfill that nobility in her eyes (not saying that they don't, just saying that they might not). Whether her stance towards station, status and power is viewed as positive or negative treat is up to the player, but I think it'd be consistent if she judges people not on their actions, but also on their social class and status.

 

If I play a high-fantasy game with different races and a society that resembles very much medieval Europe, I WANT to have racial prejudice, racial conflict, unfair treatment based on descent, a strong religious bias, etc. It's part of the genre, and it's part why I enjoy the genre in fiction. So I also want my companions to be part of that setting. It doesn't mean I endorse it in any way in the real world.

 

As for the whole restriction thing...since I set myself neither the "I absolutely must romance this character" nor the "I absolutely have to play this race (or gender)" restriction on myself, I can just go with the flow and play the story the way it was designed.

[Adaar the Unbound]

Perhaps I'm letting my anger over the subject cloud my imagination, but I honestly don't know what story reasons for race gating wouldn't have the character as racist in one way or another.

 

There are practical reasons such as King Alistair breaking it off with an elf or a dwarf or a mage, but that isn't a reason to stop the romance from starting in the first place, just a reason why it's going to end badly.

I feel the same way, but I'm a very trusting person and I feel that it will make sense when we get there. Maybe it is about tastes. I don't know.

[Nashimura]

I don't mind to much, i hope they do actually turn you down and give a reason though.... rather than just not having the option to try. Actually i think that for all kind of restriction of romance, i like how in ME3 i could flirt with Traynor and have her turn me down. (Now maybe we will get to see I-Traynor turned down... see how she likes it :/ ) 

 

I will be disappointed, but i get over it pretty quick...