38 réponses à ce sujet

[ThaWitchKing]

Im replaying origins as a mage and love the riddles i remember that DA2 did not have any riddles which sucked. i hope DAI has some 

[DrunkZoltan]

Yes to riddles. And some investigation would be nice. After all it is called Inquisition.

[Magdalena11]

Riddles 

 

Puzzles 

[Icy Magebane]

Um... can I rely on my character's wisdom stat to give me the right answer?  Maybe Solas can give me a hint... he seems pretty smart.

[Realmzmaster]

The problem with riddles and puzzles is not everyone likes them or are good at them.  The puzzle either becomes simple like the riddles in DAO or a pain for some like the bridge puzzle. Having puzzles and riddles on the main quest line like with the Scared Ashes quest simply causes frustration for some gamers. Also there is no alternative way to get to the ashes. 

 

Awakenings for DAO and Mask of the Assassin dlc for DA2 were better because gamers could ignore the puzzles and still complete the objective.

 

If there are going to be puzzles or riddles they should be optional or have an alternative way provided to reach the objective.

[ThaWitchKing]

From what i remember you did not have to get the riddle right to continue. i got alot of the riddles wrong on my first playthrough or maybe it was all and i still loved the game 

[Magdalena11]

The problem with riddles and puzzles is not everyone likes them or are good at them.  The puzzle either becomes simple like the riddles in DAO or a pain for some like the bridge puzzle. Having puzzles and riddles on the main quest line like with the Scared Ashes quest simply causes frustration for some gamers. Also there is no alternative way to get to the ashes. 

 

Awakenings for DAO and Mask of the Assassin dlc for DA2 were better because gamers could ignore the puzzles and still complete the objective.

 

If there are going to be puzzles or riddles they should be optional or have an alternative way provided to reach the objective.

I hope there is either a workaround in game or a way to find the solution, say a tome the guardian tells you to get off the dragon or something if he sees you trudging home without the ashes.  I admitted defeat and checked the wiki to finally get past that one.

[Sidney]

The problem with riddles and puzzles is not everyone likes them or are good at them.  The puzzle either becomes simple like the riddles in DAO or a pain for some like the bridge puzzle. Having puzzles and riddles on the main quest line like with the Scared Ashes quest simply causes frustration for some gamers. Also there is no alternative way to get to the ashes. 

 

Awakenings for DAO and Mask of the Assassin dlc for DA2 were better because gamers could ignore the puzzles and still complete the objective.

 

If there are going to be puzzles or riddles they should be optional or have an alternative way provided to reach the objective.

 

 

Exactly puzzles and riddles are about the player solving them not the character. Hate riddles and puzzles in all their forms in an RPG as opposed to a puzzle game likie Myst.

[Nayawk]

I can see why people dont like them as they can stop the flow of a game, but personally I love them.  I like that everything cant be solved be just by hitting it hard, sometimes it require diplomacy, sometimes problem solving and yes sometimes a big hammer.

 

(other puzzle/riddle lovers I seriously suggest The Secret World mmo, the investigation quests are the best quest I have ever seen in any game.)

[Innsmouth Dweller]

DA:O had riddles?

i remember a riddle... with the bridge. sadly there was no logic involved, just the memory.

 

shame really, it's one of the elements i like most about RPGs

[Blackout62]

Sure, while we're at it let's add in some Towers of Hanoi.

[Tevinter Rose]

Some optional investigative stuff, riddles and puzzles would be nice. I like them they add more variety to the game.

[Basement Cat]

I love riddles in games! I can see why some people would not like them. Maybe if they were part of a side quest instead of a main quest, it would be a good compromise?

[Amfortas]

The problem with riddles and puzzles is not everyone likes them or are good at them.  The puzzle either becomes simple like the riddles in DAO or a pain for some like the bridge puzzle. Having puzzles and riddles on the main quest line like with the Scared Ashes quest simply causes frustration for some gamers. Also there is no alternative way to get to the ashes. 

 

Awakenings for DAO and Mask of the Assassin dlc for DA2 were better because gamers could ignore the puzzles and still complete the objective.

 

If there are going to be puzzles or riddles they should be optional or have an alternative way provided to reach the objective.

I bet many people don't like many things. Note that I don't like riddles myself, but if you're creating something that's suposed to sell millions, and you start taking away things or making them optional because some people might not enjoy them, you are going to end up with a pastiche without identity.

 

If there are no riddles in the game it should be because they don't fit, not because some people don't enjoy them.

[Sidney]

 

I can see why people dont like them as they can stop the flow of a game, but personally I love them.  I like that everything cant be solved be just by hitting it hard, sometimes it require diplomacy, sometimes problem solving and yes sometimes a big hammer.

 

(other puzzle/riddle lovers I seriously suggest The Secret World mmo, the investigation quests are the best quest I have ever seen in any game.)

 

 

 

This isn't about not hitting things. I can solve any puzzle because Sidney is smart even if my PC is a mental midget - or vice versa. I liked being able bluff people off in both DA games or to talk them down.  Heck, i actively dislike XP for killing enemies because it implies that the biggest bodycount = best way to solve any problem.

 

Great example in FNV or FO3 maybe both. To hack a computer you played some odd little word game based on how many letters were in the right place to guess the password. I am awful at such things (I hate scrabble and boggle as well). It did not matter what skills my character put into anything if I, Sid, can't solve that puzzle the puzzle don't get solved. My character was built to be the latter day engineer type guy and he should hyave been able to solve something like this. No dice. Doesn't happen. Same way back in BG1/2 with some puzzles my borderline special education fighter (INT 7) was solving puzzles without issue because again Sidney could solve those puzzles. The game is about what my character can and can't do not what I can do, that is the difference between an RPG and an action or adventure game.

[Realmzmaster]

I bet many people don't like many things. Note that I don't like riddles myself, but if you're creating something that's suposed to sell millions, and you start taking away things or making them optional because some people might not enjoy them, you are going to end up with a pastiche without identity.

 

If there are no riddles in the game it should be because they don't fit, not because some people don't enjoy them.

 

As I stated as long as there is an optional way to get around the riddle or puzzle that is fine. The bridge puzzle in the Ashes quest caused no end of complaints in the forum. Gamers rushed to walkthroughs and online forums just to get pass this part. That causes bad word of mouth that inhibits sales.

If you are designing games for millions you have to take into account a goodly percentage of those gamers do not like puzzles or riddles. That affects their game play and they come on to the forums to voice that complaint and tell their friends. Good game design allows optional content or alternative ways.

 

Some content should be like the romances optional. How would some gamers like it if their protagonist had to romance one particular companion to further the story?

Also considering that the game may be harder to mod there may be a long time before a mod comes out that skips or solves the puzzle or riddle. (like the Fade mod for DAO) So gamers will be running to the forums and walkthroughs just to get the solutions so they can continue with the game. 

Optional or alternative ways allows everyone to experience the game with a lesser amount of frustration.

 

btw I like riddles and puzzles, but I understand everyone does not share that affection.

[Realmzmaster]

This isn't about not hitting things. I can solve any puzzle because Sidney is smart even if my PC is a mental midget - or vice versa. I liked being able bluff people off in both DA games or to talk them down.  Heck, i actively dislike XP for killing enemies because it implies that the biggest bodycount = best way to solve any problem.

 

Great example in FNV or FO3 maybe both. To hack a computer you played some odd little word game based on how many letters were in the right place to guess the password. I am awful at such things (I hate scrabble and boggle as well). It did not matter what skills my character put into anything if I, Sid, can't solve that puzzle the puzzle don't get solved. My character was built to be the latter day engineer type guy and he should hyave been able to solve something like this. No dice. Doesn't happen. Same way back in BG1/2 with some puzzles my borderline special education fighter (INT 7) was solving puzzles without issue because again Sidney could solve those puzzles. The game is about what my character can and can't do not what I can do, that is the difference between an RPG and an action or adventure game.

 

Let me add to your example, Kingdoms of Amalur has two mini-games. One game for lockpicking and the other for dispelling a ward on a chest. The dispelling mini game is for gamers with quick hand eye coordination since you have to crack symbols as they appear on the dispelling screen. The lockpicking mini game requires hand-eye and hearing coordination. The gamer has to listen for the lockpick breaking and move the pick to a new location to successfully open the chest which has a difficulty level from Very easy to Very hard.

 

The designers constructed an alternative way to play each game. There is an automatic button which is based on the amount of points the protagonist has in the lockpicking or dispelling skill which ranges from 0 to 90% (for dispelling) and 0 to 100%(for lockpicking). So the gamer who is not good at mini-games still has a chance at accessing the chests based on character build..

 

That is a way to try to make content open to all participants.

[Lady Luminous]

As I stated as long as there is an optional way to get around the riddle or puzzle that is fine. The bridge puzzle in the Ashes quest caused no end of complaints in the forum. Gamers rushed to walkthroughs and online forums just to get pass this part. That causes bad word of mouth that inhibits sales.

If you are designing games for millions you have to take into account a goodly percentage of those gamers do not like puzzles or riddles. That affects their game play and they come on to the forums to voice that complaint and tell their friends. Good game design allows optional content or alternative ways.

 

Some content should be like the romances optional. How would some gamers like it if their protagonist had to romance one particular companion to further the story?

Also considering that the game may be harder to mod there may be a long time before a mod comes out that skips or solves the puzzle or riddle. (like the Fade mod for DAO) So gamers will be running to the forums and walkthroughs just to get the solutions so they can continue with the game. 

Optional or alternative ways allows everyone to experience the game with a lesser amount of frustration.

 

btw I like riddles and puzzles, but I understand everyone does not share that affection.

 

So arachnophobes have to live with giant spiders, because they're a basic part of RPGs, but puzzles and riddles should be taken out because some gamers don't like them? 

[Icy Magebane]

So arachnophobes have to live with giant spiders, because they're a basic part of RPGs, but puzzles and riddles should be taken out because some gamers don't like them? 

No, arachnophobes have to live with giant spiders because the devs are sadists. 

[Lady Luminous]

No, arachnophobes have to live with giant spiders because the devs are sadists. 

 

True. After being crushed by a monstrous spider dropping from the freaking ceiling in DA 2 and not being able to zoom out, I honestly cried. Which yes sounds stupid and childish and it's not real, but it wasn't a reaction I could control either. 

[Icy Magebane]

True. After being crushed by a monstrous spider dropping from the freaking ceiling in DA 2 and not being able to zoom out, I honestly cried. Which yes sounds stupid and childish and it's not real, but it wasn't a reaction I could control either. 

I feel your pain...  it seems like the spiders just keep getting bigger and more detailed in each game... ugh...

 

But on topic, I really feel as though any riddles in the game should be impossible to solve unless the PC or a party member possesses sufficient cunning.  Otherwise, we're free to either check the internet or use knowledge from a prior playthrough to answer.  The cunning checks were a good addition to DA:O, and IMO that should have extended to the riddles in the Gauntlet.

[Realmzmaster]

True. After being crushed by a monstrous spider dropping from the freaking ceiling in DA 2 and not being able to zoom out, I honestly cried. Which yes sounds stupid and childish and it's not real, but it wasn't a reaction I could control either. 

 

I understand I have friends who are afraid of cats, snakes, dogs, humans, ghosts and (insert the creature of choice). If you try to remove or make optional all of the animals and human encounters the party would be fighting or talking to air (pardon to those with Anemophobia).

 

I wish games could cater to everyone's needs, but given resources that is not possible, but there is very little reason to include puzzles with out an alternative way to get around them.

[Magdalena11]

That is a way to try to make content open to all participants.

Absolutely.  Include stuff I'm no good at, I'll find a way around or look it up if there's no other way around.  Saying I don't enjoy something is no reason to say others shouldn't.  Knowing I'm not good at something doesn't stop me from enjoying what I am good at.  Since I'm good at riddles, I'll be thrilled.  I won't be very happy about puzzles, but I'll find a way past so I can enjoy the rest.

 

Edit:  Just read over what I read and it sounds preachy.  Sorry, but it's very important to me that everyone be given a chance to feel good at something and have it matter in terms of something measurable, like plot progression.  If that means I butt my head against a wall only to cheat and check the wiki, I'll survive.