476 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

To a writer, a military protaganist has several advantages that makes the narrative flow better. Most importantly, you gain a degree of control on the player's movements by virtue of simply of ordering them to do so.  As such the player can be given instructions and restrictions that otherwise might give the player the feeling of contrivance.

 

Secondly It also acts as an ingame explaintion as to why the protganist is apt with the use weaponry and why he/she is able to take on lare amounts of enemy combatants. Needless to say however this is far from perfect as there is still no good logic as to why one trained soldier can take on hordes of mooks.

 

I think SWTOR has a strong enough success at protagonists who aren't necessarily military but still have followers with reasons for following directions. Military competency has always been taken for granted for Bioware PC's, but Bioware also has some good practice in companion rationals as well.

[Dean_the_Young]

Sure you can play as a Cerberus operative for a while (say, if the plot of ME2 had been about an undercover infiltration into Cerberus on suspicion of their involvement with the Reapers or some such), but it should have been resolved by ME2. The plot of ME3 was always going to be about uniting the galaxy, and there's no way you're doing that under the banner of a divisive organization like Cerberus. If aliens ever do invade the Earth, it won't be an organization like the Tamil Tigers that unites the governments of the world against them.

 

In all honesty I think ME2 as-is would have been improved had we thrown out Shepard and played as a Cerberus operative instead. Same mission, same context, same characters (it helps that the vast majority of them join for reasons other than Shepard, and the ones that do have other potential reasons that could be used), same context. Heck, we could have repurposed Jacob Taylor and made him the default male!PC.

 

ME2 could easily have been 'Cerberus cell saves the day and has galactic implications that no one may ever realize.' Replace the Shepard 'I don't work with them' tension subplot with a potential 'should I be working with them?' subplot with a timely betrayal/backstab/'necessary sacrifice' in the context of the Collector Cruiser or Derilect Reaper, and you can still end with the Operative either sticking with Cerberus (the Renegade ending) or ditching it and the Illusive Man in a fit of conscience (the Paragon ending).

 

Then ME3 could be the legend of gender-choosable-Vega as the war hero of the Reaper War, starting as the student of the Virmire Survivor and filling in as Hackett's errand boy and becoming a galactic hero in your own right.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

My main problem with it is that it does diminish the Reapers, not only does it have them being constructed out of organic smoothie (why would an AI species who express disdain for organics do this?) but it also seems terribly inefficient (again, why would an AI species do this?). This might have been fine (but not really) if there was some notion that it led up to something but there wasn't any, at the end of ME2 we just find out that the bug proxies of the Reapers are building one with the essence of humanity (whatever that means) for no particular reason. It is the accumulation and avatar for the lack of story that goes on in ME2.

 

I don't have too much of a problem with it's design although I think it's a tad bit silly. The thing that actually bothers me the most about it is its three eyes.

 

I feel the reveals of the Reapers got the cart and horse mixed up. It was pretty clear that the reveal that Reapers are People was supposed to be big and shocking... but it really meant nothing in the context of the plot as it was (in ME2), and even less in the future (in ME3, where everyone was getting a Reaper). On the other hand, the motivation of the Reapers, which was far more relevant to the supposed and intended themes of the story, were a last minute drop in.

 

Instead of mass abductions, the Collectors could have been the proxies intended to prepare the galaxy for the Reapers by promoting conflicts and divisions and sabotaging things so that the Reapers would face a divided galaxy. Trading technology to pirates in exchange for different things, supporting various groups (like the Batarians) with advanced technology to make the odds more even- in this context, Cerberus could have been chasing shadows of a conspiracy to get all the major conflicts started.

 

You can still keep the suicide mission, the loyalty missions, and everything else, but start dropping the clues earlier that the Reapers apparently have a real dislike of synthetics. Arming the Quarians, unaccountable changes to their MO when synthetics are involved, whatever. Then our big reveal in the finale isn't that Reapers are Soylent Grey, but rather the whole 'saving the galaxy from synthetics.' The Collector Base could be, oh, a repository of galactic history of something they keep as a monument about the perpetual threat of synthetics they are to protect us from.

 

That way we can end ME2 with a misleading impression that the Reapers are super-synthetics that think they are protecting us from synthetics by destroying us before we can make synthetics that can destroy us. Malfunctioning machine theory, in other words, while also explaining why they wait for each cycle.

 

Then, in ME3, we could go to a harvesting center (a big mystery), realize the truth, and then we realize they are us and the whole conflict between synthetics and organics takes a new twist well before the finale.
 

[Massa FX]

I'm no Cerberus fan, but I think they served their purpose throughout the games. I was satisfied to end TIM. I wish I could have done so in ME2.

[Jukaga]

It's likely nobody knew or understood what the logo stood for, or that it represented something else entirely.

 

The only people who knew what it was were people who had acute dealings with Cerberus, like Jack, and the Quarian fleet.

 

IIRC it's the Cord-Hislop Aerospace logo as well but that just blows their cover too. Well obviously what the Council says and what it does are two different things. They allow Cereberus ships and personnel free reign and meet with their representatives openly as evidenced by the SB footage of Anderson. Hell, even after explicitly telling Shepard to keep to the Terminus systems don't even complain as I tore apart a warehouse with Cain heavy mass accelerator weapons, assassinate people in open markets and liquidate corrupt local politicians.

[Display Name Owner]

Just another thought, imo Cerberus goons are actually the most fun faction to fight in the game. They're a lot more entertaining than Reaper troops. I reckon it would have been cool if their combat style had been carried over to some other faction so they didn't have to be all over the place for the sake of variety. Maybe if the Reapers created a spec ops-based variety of husk soldier, or even just some other group of indoctrinated idiots. ME2 basically took the same combatants and reskinned them, but it at least gave you the impression you were fighting different groups of mercenaries or whoever else.

[TurianRebel212]

Cerberus gave us Miranda and TIM. STFU. 

[Arcian]

Cerberus gave us Miranda and TIM. STFU. 

Both were ruined along with it.

[KaiserShep]

Cerberus gave us Miranda and TIM. STFU. 

 

Eh, TIM as a character could very well have existed in the games with or without Cerberus, as could Miranda. It'd just require a different set of circumstances for Shepard to encounter them.

 

Just another thought, imo Cerberus goons are actually the most fun faction to fight in the game. They're a lot more entertaining than Reaper troops. I reckon it would have been cool if their combat style had been carried over to some other faction so they didn't have to be all over the place for the sake of variety. Maybe if the Reapers created a spec ops-based variety of husk soldier, or even just some other group of indoctrinated idiots. ME2 basically took the same combatants and reskinned them, but it at least gave you the impression you were fighting different groups of mercenaries or whoever else.

 

Personally my favorite faction to fight in ME3 now is the one that has the shortest screen time: the CAT6 mercs. Much of it has to do with the fact that they're regular people whose only motivation is being paid.

[Charcolt]

The biggest butchering of Mass Effect by Cerberus is without a doubt the existence of Cord-Hislop Aerospace. I mean, why is not Core-Hislop? An early sign of indoctrination. Get it together Timmy.

[wolfhowwl]

Cerberus gave us Miranda and TIM. STFU. 

 

Yeah that's not a good thing.

[katamuro]

While Cerberus was a slightly too powerful group to have remained so secret for so long, what bugs me them most is that the creators of ME are such fanboys of cerberus. For example how come we get so many Cerberus armours but no N7 or just alliance stuff? I doubt that alliance has less variation in armour than Cerberus. Plus why no one seems bothered about shepard running around in a cerberus armour with cerberus symbols when everyone knows cerberus is the enemy?

[Steelcan]

Secure Omega as a pass station to the Omega 4 relay makes sense, the probelm is that Petrovsky stayed loyal to TIM when it's clear that he is a reaper pawn.

and that was the problem with Cerberus throughout the game.

 

Its so blatantly obvious that Cerberus is working with the reapers, and nothing about that changes.  When we come face to face with TIM all he does is confirm what we've seen since the Mars mission, he's lost it.

 

When I first played the game I was expecting him to turn it around and have been tricking us into thinking he was indoctrinated for whatever reason, but no....

 

alas

[Steelcan]

I'm no Cerberus fan, but I think they served their purpose throughout the games. I was satisfied to end TIM. I wish I could have done so in ME2.

what purpose?  They flip their purpose each game, in ME1 they are bad guys of the week,in ME2 they are a reclusive spy organization, in ME3 they are a loose cannon of ships and unlimited troops as a pawn of the reapers

[ImaginaryMatter]

and that was the problem with Cerberus throughout the game.

 

Its so blatantly obvious that Cerberus is working with the reapers, and nothing about that changes.  When we come face to face with TIM all he does is confirm what we've seen since the Mars mission, he's lost it.

 

When I first played the game I was expecting him to turn it around and have been tricking us into thinking he was indoctrinated for whatever reason, but no....

 

alas

 

I think the whole TIM arc might have (but probably not) been justified if at the end of the game he reveals to Shepard that he did have some sort of plan B and didn't stupidly get himself Indoctrinated (or the even worse Indoctrinated-the-whole-time comic thing), stating that the Sanctuary research did unlock a certain Crucible option. He then gives a coherent argument for his option before Shepard makes it up to the decision chamber (DE:HR, anyone?).

[DeathScepter]

The Cerberus Arch within ME3 gives me two options in the end. Bad Writing or Indoctrination Theory with Harbringer indoctrinating Shepard while trolling him completely to break his will.

[Display Name Owner]

Cerberus gave us Miranda and TIM. STFU. 

 

They also gave us Project Lazarus, so...

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

They also gave us Project Lazarus, so...

 

Project Lazarus was highly successful and saved the galaxy.

[Jorji Costava]

Project Lazarus was highly successful and saved the galaxy.

 

But could that have been foreseen at the time? As Rupert Giles would say, "I wouldn't congratulate you if you jumped off a cliff and happened to survive."

[KaiserShep]

Project Lazarus was highly successful and saved the galaxy.

 

From the looks of things, the Lazarus cell seems to be the only successful one that we actually get to see.

[DeathScepter]

From the looks of things, the Lazarus cell seems to be the only successful one that we actually get to see.

 

 

Because they have a PC. Of course with a PC, that cell will be successful regardless of how successful Cerberus is.

[ImaginaryMatter]

From the looks of things, the Lazarus cell seems to be the only successful one that we actually get to see.

 

Shepard's space Jesus powers trumped Cerberus's incompetence?

[Arcian]

Project Lazarus was highly successful and saved the galaxy.

That's because Shepard has the Midas Presence of Competence. Merely by basking in Shepard's bodily light, the members of the Lazarus Cell instantly ceased to be morons. The Presence is selective however, and does not abide by stabbackery the likes of which was demonstrated by Tom Hanks volleyball.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

But could that have been foreseen at the time? As Rupert Giles would say, "I wouldn't congratulate you if you jumped off a cliff and happened to survive."

 

What are you getting at here, if I can ask? Just because they had a decent result does not mean that the actions should have taken place?

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

From the looks of things, the Lazarus cell seems to be the only successful one that we actually get to see.

 

I saw successes in many Cerberus cells. Results work.