245 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

It's pretty sad the closest you can get to knocking that stupid idealism out of Alistair's head is when he's fully hostile and hardened. Another reason I guess the redeemer ending is pretty good.

 

As for Duncan "saving" the HN. He/she was already at the escape route. Unless Duncan has mad ninja skills and the HN stumbled around like a buffon he/she should've been capable of escape on his/her own. Now would they have gotten revenge on Howe? Not very likely and with the blight he/she probably would've had to run (I personally would've headed to Orlais. The Couslands had friends who lived there and it doesn't seem like a bad place to hang low). There's little to no reason to remain in Fereldan as far as they're concerned their whole family is dead (Unless they want to go warn Fergus but I get the impression they would've taken too long to get to Ostagar without Duncan's guidance and well my HN believed Fergus had gotten trapped by Howe). And well after everything goes to hell in Ostagar...the blight would've taken care of their revenge.

 

But yeah HN and Mage are the two origins that do not need Duncan to survive. Though mage would've been screwed when Uldred threw his fit and if HN went to Ostagar that's where he/she would've died too.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 juillet 2014 - 08:49 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Meta-knowledge that Alistair is not privy to. Alistair's regard for Duncan is sincere, based on his knowledge of the man and what he did for Alistair. *washes hands of this idiotic fandom*

 

But it's well-known and well-documented that the Wardens' moral/character standards for GW candidates are not high in the least. Apostates, blood-mages, thieves, murderers... some of which the Player Character can be before Duncan's recruitment, all of which have been harbored by the 'Wardens. Sadly, you can't point that out at the Landsmeet, only say that "Not all of us have spotless honor" which in itself is a weak response.

[congokong]

The dwarfs prove this belief wrong, Oghren himself fought darkspawn in the deep roads for many years and never got tainted and it's just as skilled as any grey warden.

Also, they say an advantage for Grey Wardens is that they can sense darkspawn. Sounds useful until you realize the trade-off that darkspawn can also sense them. That neutralizes any advantage. It also means if you want to ambush darkspawn you better not bring a Grey Warden.

 

So why are Grey Wardens so vital to the point that they can do whatever they want to maximize their strength? When a blight does come no one believes it until they see it regardless of what Grey Wardens like Duncan claim from their dreams. Maybe if people like Loghain were informed of that one reason why Grey Wardens were needed then he wouldn't have tried massacring them all. I get for the story's sake they wanted to keep the archdemon killing thing a secret to surprise the gamer, but in reality it makes little sense.

 

Riordan: "Who would want to be a Grey Warden knowing the fate that may be in store for them?"

 

Answer: Quite a few people. Many soldiers in DA and real life gladly fight knowing it may cost their life either out of duty or glory. People would fight to be the one to sacrifice themselves to slay the archdemon, which can easily happen in your own playthrough if you turn down Morrigan's ritual.

[KaiserShep]

Also, they say an advantage for Grey Wardens is that they can sense darkspawn. Sounds useful until you realize the trade-off that darkspawn can also sense them. That neutralizes any advantage. It also means if you want to ambush darkspawn you better not bring a Grey Warden.

 

It's funny, because this disadvantage presents itself pretty early on in the game too, because shrieks are sent to raid the camp.

[Jaison1986]

@congokong: Almost nobody would want be an grey warden. Knowing you may die at any time on the battlefield is one thing, but they know that if they survive, these soldiers can simply return to their lifes, grey wardens are denied even that. They are tainted forever, shortened life span's, horribles nightnmares almost every night and fated to become ghouls. So I think Riordan is right, very few people would want to be wardens once they knew the whole truth.

[congokong]

It's funny, because this disadvantage presents itself pretty early on in the game too, because shrieks are sent to raid the camp.

I just realized from your post that on my last playthrough as the human noble who hated the wardens I didn't get this scene. Strange.

 

@congokong: Almost nobody would want be an grey warden. Knowing you may die at any time on the battlefield is one thing, but they know that if they survive, these soldiers can simply return to their lifes, grey wardens are denied even that. They are tainted forever, shortened life span's, horribles nightnmares almost every night and fated to become ghouls. So I think Riordan is right, very few people would want to be wardens once they knew the whole truth.

 

Most wouldn't want to be a Grey Warden, but during a blight many would make that sacrifice. There isn't justification for these secrets that require murdering people like Jory or giving people like Loghain justifiable skepticism. They wouldn't need that many wardens for the one task of dealing the final blow to an archdemon. Previously I mentioned the real life example of kamikaze pilots. In-game you have the example of dwarves volunteering to become golems to help their people.

 

And wardens could go back to their old lives if they wanted or go AWOL like Anders. Wardens aren't needed between blights.

[Elhanan]

It gives 'moar powahz' after the Joining, and motivation to kill Darkspawn.



As for Duncan, I liked the man I met. Anyone subjected to scrutiny will have blemishes, but I like the man who laughed (or sighed) after our jokes, did not report my thefts, saved my life by bearing me back to camp, gave me arms to defeat my enemy, etc,

[KaiserShep]

I just realized from your post that on my last playthrough as the human noble who hated the wardens I didn't get this scene. Strange.

 

Really? My Warden is a human noble and this scene occurs at some point in the game, following a nightmare about the archdemon.

[congokong]

Really? My Warden is a human noble and this scene occurs at some point in the game, following a nightmare about the archdemon.

I checked Dragon Age Wiki and there's no mention of a bug or decision that would cause this. I know Alistair had max disapproval which is the only difference I can recall from other playthroughs where he generally liked me. The Wiki says this scene happens after completing 4/5 main storylines. For me that was the dalish questline where I killed the elves for a badass werewolf army.

[Jaison1986]

Did you just traveled straight from an place to other without going to camp? That could be the case.

[congokong]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the shrieks raid the camp unless you kill the high dragon for some reason.

 

I don't know.. something about that Sacred Ashes quest triggers it.

Dragon Age Wiki didn't mention that but I defiled the ashes; thus not killing the high dragon. I don't see how they're connected but perhaps...

 

I'm thinking it's likely a bug. The DA games are filled with them. I encountered another with the high dragon in the epilogue. On my first playthrough I defiled the ashes and got some epilogue dialogue about the high dragon ravaging the countryside or something. Yet on my human noble playthrough I got no mention of it despite defiling the ashes again.

[congokong]

Did you just traveled straight from an place to other without going to camp? That could be the case.

I don't think so. After slaughtering the elves I accidentally went back to the Brecelian Forest, turned around to go back to the Dalish camp, then went to the campsite. There was no archdemon dream or anything. Then Leliana sang her song.

[Alehazar]

Wardens are needed during Blights -and between them as well. As stated in the Warden's creed: In Peace, Vigilance. They keep tabs on any darkspawn activity that might be a pre-cursor to another Blight. Allowing the Wardens to slack off between Blights will surely negatively impact their combat readiness and combat effectiveness -if they only spring into action when a Blight is imminent.

But Duncan's attitude "the end justifies the means" is a dangerous one; and one that Loghain apparently abides by as well.

At Ostagar, Alistair even admits that Duncan once said that the Wardens do whatever it takes, to end a Blight; and that could mean some very heavy measures. Yet Alistair seems to personally shy away from doing whatever it takes to get the job done; he wishes to commit the very limited resources the Wardens have available to them, to fight and win every single battle against the Darkspawn threat. And yet, that could inevitable cost them the ultimate victory. Equally, if Loghain wins at the Landsmeet, Anora's father will have won that battle, but he will lose the war.

I concur that Alistair's idolisation of Duncan is a major pain -especially when I play the Dalish Elf Origin. All I want -having failed bringing back Tamlen- is for my clan to be merciful and kill me when the time comes. But the Keeper throws me out, because Duncan demands it. (I wish I had the option to renounce my Dalish roots). From then on I try my best to let the humans suffer -and Alistair is nothing but a major pain in that story. So, my Dalish Elf generally dislikes Duncan.

Duncan's murder of Ser Jory is another thing that cranks up my dislike of Fereldan's GW leader. So Jory gets cold feet -and he can be called stupid for not grasping there is no going back; he believes he can return to his wife after the Blights'been defeated- that is no reason to kill him? Selfdefence? Pretty weak. Jory's probably frightened out of his mind, they can probably not talk him down in laying down his weapon, so his death seems inevitable. But give Jory some credit: he fights Darkspawn up close and personal -can't believe that's a lovely teaparty. Then he's told he's going to have to drink their blood -and everyone knows that close to suicide. He then sees Daveth croak in a most alarming way; yeah, I'd get cold feet too.

Just like Loghain's is so blinded by his hatred of Orlais, Duncan is blinded by the sole purpose of defeating the Blight. Anything that stands between them and their goal.....

In all, I generally respect Duncan for his dedication, but it's mostly Alistair's selective blindness to Duncan's lesser noble attributes that rattle my cage.

[dragonflight288]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the shrieks raid the camp unless you kill the high dragon for some reason.

 

I don't know.. something about that Sacred Ashes quest triggers it.

 

Really? For me it was when all but one of the main quests were done. 

[Blazomancer]

Grey wardens are needed between blights. Small scale darkspawn raids are common. Even a single darkspawn can taint it's surroundings with it's mere presence, which would take decades to recover. This is evident in the Awakening epilogue if you let the messenger go. Unless the wardens guard hotspots like the Abyssal Rift, bands of darkspawn will keep on pouring every now and then and continue spreading disease. Not to mention that there wouldn't be anybody to keep tabs on the increasing activity underground. Can a non-grey warden do all this; possibly but without the immunity to taint, they would die out or become ghouls before long.

[Xilizhra]

I like him and consider him largely justified. I think he's not a cold person as such, but one who has feelings yet doesn't allow them to get in the way of what he sees as his duty. I personally consider any hypothetical vow of vengeance against Howe to be utterly important, and I haven't seen any douchebaggery that's been alleged in the Dalish origin. As for what someone says about Soris in the CE origin, he's actually not in line for imprisonment unless the Warden says he was involved instead of taking all the blame themselves.

[dragonflight288]

Yeah, I'm not sure about it. Just seems to trigger that way for me. Usually I do the Circle, Dalish camp, and then Redcliffe (which leads to Sacred Ashes). Then Orzammar last. On Dwarf characters, I flip Dalish with Orzammar, so Dalish quests are last. Either way, it seems like the shrieks come after I finish the Ashes and kill the dragon.

 

Hmm, I usually do Redcliff, Circle, Orzammar (while in the area,) Sacred Ashes, then Dalish with my dwarven Warden (he puts more stock in dwarven arms and armor than a legend about an urn)

[sylvanaerie]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the shrieks raid the camp unless you kill the high dragon for some reason.

 

I don't know.. something about that Sacred Ashes quest triggers it.

 

After you complete the third treaty/main quest the shrieks raid the camp.

[congokong]

Hmm, I usually do Redcliff, Circle, Orzammar (while in the area,) Sacred Ashes, then Dalish with my dwarven Warden (he puts more stock in dwarven arms and armor than a legend about an urn)

I've always done Circle, Redcliffe, Urn of stupid ashes, Dalish, Orzammar ...or Redcliffe, Urn, Circle, Dalish, Orzammar. The second option flows best for me but I'll do the Circle first if I really want Zevran with me when I abandon Redcliffe for the funny banter as I kill the townsfolk.

 

About the ashes, it is pretty stupid. I've never held off looking for them but I certainly can see why you would. You're going to run off during a blight to chase an Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade style relic in the hopes it exists and has magical powers to cure a sick man? There's a line of succession for a reason. When Sten questions the absurdity I want to say "I know but the game is making me."