245 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

I've always done Circle, Redcliffe, Urn of stupid ashes, Dalish, Orzammar ...or Redcliffe, Urn, Circle, Dalish, Orzammar. The second option flows best for me but I'll do the Circle first if I really want Zevran with me when I abandon Redcliffe for the funny banter as I kill the townsfolk.

 

About the ashes, it is pretty stupid. I've never held off looking for them but I certainly can see why you would. You're going to run off during a blight to chase an Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade style relic in the hopes it exists and has magical powers to cure a sick man? There's a line of succession for a reason. When Sten questions the absurdity I want to say "I know but the game is making me."

I think that something is proven well enough when it turns out that a group of people was willing to resort to impersonation and murder to keep the Ashes hidden, and you only need to go to Denerim to learn that.

[congokong]

I think that something is proven well enough when it turns out that a group of people was willing to resort to impersonation and murder to keep the Ashes hidden, and you only need to go to Denerim to learn that.

 

Sigh. So you want to start a debate that chasing a legend was the right thing for the last 2 Grey Wardens to do during a blight?

[gottaloveme]

Shrieks invading camp - nothing to do with the High Dragon. I never kill her (she protects the ashes) and I still get the shrieks after a archie nightmare and then dialogue about archie having seen the grey wardens.

[Ryzaki]

Shrieks invading camp - nothing to do with the High Dragon. I never kill her (she protects the ashes) and I still get the shrieks after a archie nightmare and then dialogue about archie having seen the grey wardens.

 

Yep it usually occurs for me after I've done 3 main quests. It's pretty buggy though sometimes it doesn't happen.

[KaiserShep]

I think that something is proven well enough when it turns out that a group of people was willing to resort to impersonation and murder to keep the Ashes hidden, and you only need to go to Denerim to learn that.

 

By this logic, if an extremist group acts out for sake of their respective deity, that proves the deity's existence. The Cult of Andraste is a band of religious fanatics that also worship dragons and think that the high dragon is Andraste herself, which of course the Guardian insists is false. It's reasonable to assume that the Urn of Sacred Ashes could very well be a wild goose chase. The one and only reason to even consider the possibility that the ashes do have magical properties is the fact that magic exists in Thedas already.

[Xilizhra]

Sigh. So you want to start a debate that chasing a legend was the right thing for the last 2 Grey Wardens to do during a blight?

If nothing else, do it when you've fulfilled all the treaties and there's nothing else to do.

 

 

By this logic, if an extremist group acts out for sake of their respective deity, that proves the deity's existence. The Cult of Andraste is a band of religious fanatics that also worship dragons and think that the high dragon is Andraste herself, which of course the Guardian insists is false. It's reasonable to assume that the Urn of Sacred Ashes could very well be a wild goose chase. The one and only reason to even consider the possibility that the ashes do have magical properties is the fact that magic exists in Thedas already.

It could be, but one Dalish clan, a few mages and however many dwarves can be squeezed out of Orzammar won't be enough to stop the Blight on their own; Ferelden's armies are needed, and for that, the nation has to be united behind someone. Alistair has no noble backers except Eamon; the man is the key to Ferelden itself.

[KaiserShep]

I never said that there's no reason to look into it; only that there's actually a good reason to roleplay that the search for the Urn is likely a dead end. I always go for the urn, because I figure, what the hell, even if in-game it ended up being a wild goose chase, I'd prefer to try to save Eamon.

[Gallimatia]

If nothing else, do it when you've fulfilled all the treaties and there's nothing else to do.

 

 

It could be, but one Dalish clan, a few mages and however many dwarves can be squeezed out of Orzammar won't be enough to stop the Blight on their own; Ferelden's armies are needed, and for that, the nation has to be united behind someone. Alistair has no noble backers except Eamon; the man is the key to Ferelden itself.

 

The Warden could always do what Ser Perth not in so many words suggests. Kill Eamon and have Teagan take his place. If that was an option in game perhaps his lesser political pull would make it impossible to win the Landmeet and you'd have to take the throne with brute force.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Count me in with the "Urn quest is stupid"-camp. It's like the writers thought we'd think it's legit just because it's on our journal.

[Dabrikishaw]

I love the Urn quest, it's my favorite one to do.

[Magdalena11]

Shrieks invading camp - nothing to do with the High Dragon. I never kill her (she protects the ashes) and I still get the shrieks after a archie nightmare and then dialogue about archie having seen the grey wardens.

I've never been able to figure out why that one happens when it does.  It's always after the dead trenches, but I've had it trigger while still wrapping up Orzammar when I did that quest first with my mage, as well as 2 treaties later prepping for the landsmeet with my Dalish archer.  I remember that one best because I was waiting to see what happened to Tamlen.

[Magdalena11]

The Warden could always do what Ser Perth not in so many words suggests. Kill Eamon and have Teagan take his place. If that was an option in game perhaps his lesser political pull would make it impossible to win the Landmeet and you'd have to take the throne with brute force.

Or you can lose the debate on purpose if you want.  There's no need to kill Eamon and no guarantee Teagan wouldn't be even more popular that Eamon was.  

[Jaison1986]

Yeah, Eamon was not necessary to win the Landsmeet, considering that even if you lose the debate you can just go on an all out battle untill the grand cliric calls for order. I wouldn't suggest to kill Eamon, but to simply leave him to his comatose state and tell Teagan to take his place for the time being.

[MKDAWUSS]

I'm really confused by people claiming that Duncan conscripting you into the Grey Wardens "denies you the chance to get revenge on Howe." He's the only reason you even have a shot. Keeping in mind that the events of every origin happen regardless of whether or not Duncan was there to save you, and he pretty much saves you from certain death in all but one or two outcomes (the mage that rats Jowan out and MAYBE the HN that would have fled into the woods instead of staying to fight and die with mom and dad), and none of the other proto-Wardens turn up alive or well-known in your playthrough (you flat out see Leske's casteless buddy dead in the cell next to him in Jarvia's Hideout), I think it's pretty safe to say Duncan saved your bleeping life.

 

While the Couslands aren't mentioned outside their own origin and playthrough, at no point do any of the gossips mention some lone Cousland survivor taking back Cousland castle from Howe, successfully rallying forces or raising a Cousland banner against him, killing Howe, etc. For all intents and purposes, Howe gets away with slaughtering and usurping the Couslands until the Warden of any background comes along and murders the son of a cow in his own home. And if Duncan didn't recruit the Cousland, it ain't him or her.

 

My guess is, if Duncan didn't come along and drag you away from the castle, you would have either wound up killed with your family, or wound up on the run like your brother; a lone wandering pariah kept out of sight and out of mind from the public conscious until after Howe was already killed by someone else.

You can see someone who I think is supposed to be the not-Warden Cousland on the separate torture rack in Fort Drakon next to the pile that includes Gilmore and Mallol.

Obviously in the event of Warden Cousland that someone is someone else.

[Magdalena11]

You can see someone who I think is supposed to be the not-Warden Cousland on the separate torture rack in Fort Drakon next to the pile that includes Gilmore and Mallol.

Obviously in the event of Warden Cousland that someone is someone else.

Nice catch.

[Jukaga]

It's funny. I have every reason to dislike Morrigan's character even more so than Duncan's yet I like her and romance her when playing a male. I know she's evil and would hate her in real life but in-game she doesn't bother me. I think it's because no one denies what she is while everyone puts Duncan on a pedestal.

 

I guess it's a question for another thread, but is Morrigan actually 'evil'?

[Jaison1986]

I guess it's a question for another thread, but is Morrigan actually 'evil'?

 

Not evil per se. She haves an survivor mentality. She believes we (the team) should only care about our interests. And that helping anyone is an waste energy and time, because if they got themselves in a bad situation, it's because of their own weakness and they should be left to deal with it themselves. I rarely do what she suggest, but I often agree with her in principle. The only time she truly comes off as evil is when she suggest that sacrificing the elves for an buff to the warden is an good offer.

[congokong]

I guess it's a question for another thread, but is Morrigan actually 'evil'?

By her beliefs she is. In the defense of her not being evil I will say we don't actually see her do anything evil in the game. It's what she approves/disapproves of that has me define her as evil. Ex: She approves of using the life force of Caladrius' 6 remaining slaves for one constitution point bonus and disapproves if you don't. To me that's cut-and-dry evil.

[congokong]

Not evil per se. She haves an survivor mentality. She believes we (the team) should only care about our interests. And that helping anyone is an waste energy and time, because if they got themselves in a bad situation, it's because of their own weakness and they should be left to deal with it themselves. I rarely do what she suggest, but I often agree with her in principle. The only time she truly comes off as evil is when she suggest that sacrificing the elves for an buff to the warden is an good offer.

Oh, you used the Caladrius example too. Another example I'd say is where she suggests slaughtering the Circle including the children because of her survivalist mentality. They are captive and therefore weak, which is absurd considering these children are like 6. Another is that she disapproves if you don't let that demon possess the girl in The Stone Prisoner.

 

I'll only take her advice if my character is evil which pretty much sums her up. Ironically despite believing she knows "what is what" as Flemeth (who I think is pretty wise) puts it I feel Morrigan's a pretty big fool; a bigger one than Alistair despite what she thinks of him. Ex: She thinks slaughtering the Dalish to possibly obtain a werewolf army is a good idea? Ex: She wants to release Jowan (the man who poisoned Arl Eamon) without question while Alistair suggests knowing the full story first.

 

I've never understood why she considers Alistair a fool either. Maybe it's because he isn't strong-willed to the point that he is content to follow. That doesn't make him foolish. At least he knows himself well enough to acknowledge this and isn't an emotional wreck in a relationship like she is. Morrigan claims to resent emotional attachment yet the minute you start a physical relationship with her she'll become very clingy and jealous. Ex: kissing that girl in Redcliffe or trying to sleep with Isabela. Even when Morrigan claims the relationship is purely physical she acts this way. Why? Because deep down she is a romantic but is in denial about it because of Flemeth's survivalist upbringing that was pounded into her.

 

A big factor that makes her a fool is if you play a female warden. Why? Because her end-game involves sleeping with Alistair and yet she takes every opportunity to belittle him; thus making the end-game harder to achieve. Considering her plans Morrigan should be working to get Alistair to like/trust her; not the opposite.

[Sifr]

I always considered the morally grey but ultimately pragmatic choices that Alistair dislikes as being very much those that Duncan probably would have chosen if he were still alive, such as the decision to turn Loghain into a Warden. I can definitely see Duncan putting revenge aside to turn an enemy into an asset, despite Alistair's protests that Loghain deserved death for the death of their comrades.

 

Which is why I am of mixed minds about Duncan, as I think that he understands more than anyone that the mission always should come first and that all Grey Wardens (himself included) are merely pawns in a far greater war, which sometimes must be sacrificed in order to win.

 

So, while I like Duncan... I don't necessarily trust him.

 

(Incidentally, the same goes for my Warden, who I felt evolved more into a Duncan-like mentality as the game progressed).

[Ferretinabun]

By her beliefs she is. In the defense of her not being evil I will say we don't actually see her do anything evil in the game. It's what she approves/disapproves of that has me define her as evil. Ex: She approves of using the life force of Caladrius' 6 remaining slaves for one constitution point bonus and disapproves if you don't. To me that's cut-and-dry evil.

 

You have to get into her mindset. What she admires is power and survival, and what she respects is a drive to get them.

 

But that's not to say she is without mercy. Let's not forget she advises freeing Sten when you first encounter him. And nor has she truly forgotten her whimsical, aesthetic sense - she merely suppresses it (as evidenced by the gifts she treasures most). She is not spiteful or cruel, she just believes in the survival of the fittest.

[congokong]

You have to get into her mindset. What she admires is power and survival, and what she respects is a drive to get them.

 

But that's not to say she is without mercy. Let's not forget she advises freeing Sten when you first encounter him. And nor has she truly forgotten her whimsical, aesthetic sense - she merely suppresses it (as evidenced by the gifts she treasures most). She is not spiteful or cruel, she just believes in the survival of the fittest.

Who said having some degree of mercy = not being evil? And the Sten example is more of an example of her being a fool than anything else. "Hey, there's a giant locked in a cage as prey for the darkspawn. He murdered 8 people including children? Let him out anyway." Pfft. Is showing mercy on a child killer by suggesting them being released an example of being good?

 

In the real world "evil" people have some reasoning that explains their behavior. That's how it is for characters like Morrigan and Loghain. Encouraging the sacrifice of elves for a small power gain is evil. Explaining why she thinks that way doesn't change that it's evil by all definitions. If you're looking for one-dimensional characters who do evil acts without preamble then you'll only see that in things like Disney films or Lord of the Rings.

[dekarserverbot]

On my run it depends on origin:

City Elf: Respects him, but doesn't like him
Female mage Dalish Elf: slighty dislikes him
Cannon male Dalish Elf: obviouslly likes him
Female Human Noble: hates him (she didn't want to be a grey warden)
Male Human Noble: Respects and likes him
Human Mage (male): likes him
Dwarven Noble (original male run): Likes him
Dwarven Princess (reboot run): First liked him, after Ser Jory's death disliked him
Dwarven commoner Ferren: likes him, ironically also respects Loghain

these were the runs i'm trying to reconstruct, but this time i didn't "Harden" the Dwarven noble, she is going to support her brother, save kitties from trees and every villian she can spare (except Loghain, because Alistair will fight him). I neither see a point of rebooting the female city elf, i'm going to pass... and never played dwarven commoner as a female. Another reboot that has gone fused was the dalish elf and female mage thanks to the mod so no circle female mage this time, cannon run added because it's the real story: The Dalish martyr.
In the original run the female circle mage had the trait that Lady Aeduncan has now: spoiled sweet, close to Jesus. Original Dwarven noble hardenned everyone and make out with Lelianna (a hard choice, she doesn't approach too easy if you are male, but Morrigan and Zevran do get in the way by wooing you first) so he didn't had "you killed ser jory" complains.

Overall if you ask the elven gods (aka, myself) Duncan is a selfish Chaotic-good ass who has absolutely no respect for freedom or different points of view. But the veiwpoint of those gods must not affect anyone (except the male city elf, since it's basically me)

I guess it's a question for another thread, but is Morrigan actually 'evil'?

Elven gods think that she is not evil, she is just extreme stupid. And since stupid people can not be trully evil then she is not.
Really after hearing her over and over I think even dog and alistair have more brains than her.

[TEWR]

I imagine part of why Morrigan's the way she is where her survivalist mentality goes to just plain evil for evil's sake sometimes is due to Flemeth. Flemeth... wasn't exactly the best mother-figure out there. Can be pretty damaging.

 

I don't hate Morrigan (rather she's one of my favorite characters) but there are some things that she says that do come off the wrong way. Most however are fine, as she's a perceptive person. Sten, for instance, is a person whose character she can see a bit of and whom she advocates freeing.

 

Course, from a meta perspective it could just have been Bioware going "Hmmm... this is the 'good' route.... let's have Morrigan disapprove."

 

Now, bedtime.

[Goth Skunk]

INB4 discussion on Duncan's obsession with taints.