55 réponses à ce sujet

[R0vena]

I think the presence of successor to the Ferelden throne is way too important to give it only to particular players. Either somehow all should get one or none. Why should players who don't have these three couples in their walkthrough be punished?

[Estelindis]

That's Never been said, Alistair specifically says during the ending conversation that the chances for Two Grey Wardens having children are low, he never said it could NEVER happen, and the Warden hasn't even been a Warden all that long, less than year in fact. 

 

In-game, it's never been said that it's completely impossible.  Outside the game, David Gaider has stated unambiguously that two Wardens cannot ever have a child together.

[AlanC9]

I think the presence of successor to the Ferelden throne is way too important to give it only to particular players. Either somehow all should get one or none. Why should players who don't have these three couples in their walkthrough be punished?

How does not having an heir to the throne punish players?

[R0vena]

How does not having an heir to the throne punish players?

with much less stable political situation in Ferelden

[AlanC9]

That sounds like it would be fun to play in.

[Nefla]

Agreed, I want all the babies T_T

[Brass_Buckles]

Babies are great and all, but one of the big reasons that Alistair/the Warden would never have children is because not every player is going to want that.  Another is likely that there is something planned down the line involving the lack of an heir.

 

I remember reading somewhere (I think Gaider said it) that the Theirins aren't necessarily all that fertile in the first place, and if Anora had problems, too, and with the Warden being, well, a Warden... you've got problems.

 

But it's also a big problem to say "Okay Alistair and Anora now have kids," or "Alistair and the Warden now have kids," when you've got players who ADAMANTLY do not want that.  I'd be fine with it, because it would make sense (except lore-wise it seems very difficult/unlikely).

 

So all you're left with is the Old God Baby for Man Warden or Alistair; Lady Warden can't ever have kids.  Is that fair to players of the Lady Warden who wanted their character to have babies with Alistair or Zevran?  Nope.  But would it be fair to force children on a player who didn't want their character to have kids, ten years later?  Definitely not.

 

Nobody wins.

[Jawzzus]

Wasn't it implied that either Anora was infertile, or it was because the Calenhad boys had a hard time fathering children?

 

I doubt they will involve babies, even the OGB is up to what you pick in the keep.  They will probably have whoever is on the throne pick their successor personally right before they die, like Orzammar does sometimes (we all saw how well that went).

[Brass_Buckles]

Wasn't it implied that either Anora was infertile, or it was because the Calenhad boys had a hard time fathering children?

 

I doubt they will involve babies, even the OGB is up to what you pick in the keep.  They will probably have whoever is on the throne pick their successor personally right before they die, like Orzammar does sometimes (we all saw how well that went).

 

Both have been suggested.  Anora is hinted at being infertile, but Gaider at some point suggested that the Theirin guys have never been all that fertile either.  Compound that with Alistair being a Warden, and his wife potentially being a Warden.  Then there's nearly zero chance of a baby, other than the Old God Baby.

[Feybrad]

There are plenty of reasons while the royal pairings of Ferelden may stay childless, but I don't think that "Some Players wouldn't want to have their Characters have Kids". After all, Thedas is still on a medieval level of Knowledge and Technology (with the Exception of the Qunari) and thus shouldn't have many Methods of Contraception readily available - and those that are, are highly unreliable. If they wanted the Pairings to have Children, then there seldomly is a Story Reason. At least with every heterosexual Pairing of Hawke and (male) WardenxLeliana and (female) WardenxZevran - these Pairings could all have reasonably produced a Child in the Meantime. I mean, it worked with Morrigan, dark Ritual or not. Funnily enough, the Pairings where that Child would actually "matter" beyond "being the Wardens Child" are the Ones where it's nearly impossible - Alistair and the Warden can't have a Child and male Warden/AlistairxAnora would highly depend on Anora's Fertility, which is questionable.

[animedreamer]

Do we know that he hasn't had a kid?

We don't know anything, but if the options are keep Ferelden stable by siring a Dynasty or Let it fall into another war for power after 1 generation im advocating the former, so im hoping Mike Laidlaw and David Gaider will address the issue in DA:I.

[animedreamer]

Babies are great and all, but one of the big reasons that Alistair/the Warden would never have children is because not every player is going to want that.  Another is likely that there is something planned down the line involving the lack of an heir.

 

I remember reading somewhere (I think Gaider said it) that the Theirins aren't necessarily all that fertile in the first place, and if Anora had problems, too, and with the Warden being, well, a Warden... you've got problems.

 

But it's also a big problem to say "Okay Alistair and Anora now have kids," or "Alistair and the Warden now have kids," when you've got players who ADAMANTLY do not want that.  I'd be fine with it, because it would make sense (except lore-wise it seems very difficult/unlikely).

 

So all you're left with is the Old God Baby for Man Warden or Alistair; Lady Warden can't ever have kids.  Is that fair to players of the Lady Warden who wanted their character to have babies with Alistair or Zevran?  Nope.  But would it be fair to force children on a player who didn't want their character to have kids, ten years later?  Definitely not.

 

Nobody wins.

is not the whole point of this game to have various options that effected the world? it's fine if some players don't want the Therein line to continue, but what about those that do? It's a simple matter of whether or not you want to design your DA world like that or not. This doesn't seem like a NO it shouldn't happen argument but rather a possibility for some if they played that way option.

[CENIC]

I have a feeling BioWare has something planned for who will get the throne after the ruler dies.

 

Because of all the variables, an heir would be a LOT of work. 

[Brass_Buckles]

is not the whole point of this game to have various options that effected the world, it's fine is some players don't want the Therein line to continue, but what about those that do? It's a simple matter of whether or not you want to design your DA world like that or not. This doesn't seem like a NO it shouldn't happen argument but rather a possibility for some if they played that way option.

 

It isn't about people not wanting the Theirin line to continue.  It's about certain people not wanting their character to have kids without their say-so.  Not everyone thinks every marriage needs to end in children, nor every serious relationship must end in marriage.

 

While I personally would like one of my Wardens and Alistair to have kids together, I don't want to dictate to those who don't that they MUST have children, just because I want that for MY character.  That wouldn't be right and fair.  There was also not any option to talk about children, so no way to say "Okay, this person does not want children," or "hey this person wants to have kids, let's add that in."

 

This HAS, I am pretty sure, been given as one of the reasons the Lady Warden won't have children.  I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the devs mentioned it at some point.  Even if they hadn't, the Lady Warden is basically infertile anyway, and Alistair has been a Warden a bit longer than she has--so he just gets the OGB.  Anora might possibly have children, if she isn't barren and doesn't marry Alistair or the Warden.

 

It may be sad if the Theirin line dies out--undoubtedly it will be sad--but I suspect that there are plans in place for just that.  Because political turmoil is bound to cause interesting things to happen, no?  I've long thought that is one of the directions that Dragon Age is going to go.  Remember, Dragon Age was created as a dark fantasy.  We may get to be heroes, but we shouldn't expect everything to go our way.

[animedreamer]

All im gathering from this thread is, the Warden should have just killed Anora, and Loghain and sent Alistair to slay the Archdemon, and damn Morrigan and her Dark Ritual and then lived out the rest of his or her life doing whatever. 

 

1.) If Warden was a Cousland, then have Fergus and possibly a new wife ascend to the throne produce heirs.

 

2.) If Dwarf go back to Orsammar and just live out the rest of your days as a Paragon and tell stories of how stupid humans are.

 

3.) If Mage go back to the tower and ready for the Mage rebellion as head enchanter and claim independence from the Chantry and possibly Ferelden.

 

4.) If Elf move you and your kin out of the city and find the Dalish cause Ferelden is going to become a **** storm in 20 years.

[Brass_Buckles]

All im gathering from this thread is, the Warden should have just killed Anora, and Loghain and sent Alistair to slay the Archdemon, and damn Morrigan and her Dark Ritual and then lived out the rest of his or her life doing whatever. 

 

1.) If Warden was a Cousland, then have Fergus and possibly a new wife ascend to the throne produce heirs.

 

2.) If Dwarf go back to Orsammar and just live out the rest of your days as a Paragon and tell stories of how stupid humans are.

 

3.) If Mage go back to the tower and ready for the Mage rebellion as head enchanter and claim independence from the Chantry and possibly Ferelden.

 

4.) If Elf move you and your kin out of the city and find the Dalish cause Ferelden is going to become a **** storm in 20 years.

 

 

No one said that.  And just because a couple doesn't have kids, doesn't mean that the love they have is not worth it.  For all we know, Alistair and the Warden, if married, are able to select and name an heir for themselves.  There would still be political problems with that, because not everyone is going to necessarily accept it, but it would most likely prevent a full-blown civil war.

 

Political turmoil is what Dragon Age is all about.  But again, that doesn't mean that the romances don't matter, at least in terms of how it matters to those characters.

 

I would, actually, like to see a game in which I can choose to be married and have kids in the epilogue, though, maybe after a conversation about family or something.  But again, one of the biggest reasons for that not being done is because there are people who'd be infuriated if their character were forced into having a marriage and/or child that they didn't want... so it would have to somehow be made a choice in-game.  It might not be worth the effort to put that choice in; rather, you could head canon your preference.

 

I think the one way in which the Alistair/Warden/Anora thing was handled badly is that you can't really head canon it.  Either there's an heir, or there isn't.  It appears that there isn't, due to so many factors, and nor will there be (unless the heir is adopted).

 

I'm not disparaging what you want, I just don't think it's possible, lore-wise, unless Alistair (and the Lady Warden, if she married him) should be cured of the taint.  Even then, the Theirins aren't particularly fertile, and Anora might very well be barren.  That said, we don't know if Cailin might have a bastard child somewhere.

[General TSAR]

Who is "we"?

[Jawzzus]

All im gathering from this thread is, the Warden should have just killed Anora, and Loghain and sent Alistair to slay the Archdemon, and damn Morrigan and her Dark Ritual and then lived out the rest of his or her life doing whatever. 

 

1.) If Warden was a Cousland, then have Fergus and possibly a new wife ascend to the throne produce heirs.

 

2.) If Dwarf go back to Orsammar and just live out the rest of your days as a Paragon and tell stories of how stupid humans are.

 

3.) If Mage go back to the tower and ready for the Mage rebellion as head enchanter and claim independence from the Chantry and possibly Ferelden.

 

4.) If Elf move you and your kin out of the city and find the Dalish cause Ferelden is going to become a **** storm in 20 years.

 

This posts sounds like: "People aren't agreeing with me so I'll just be snarky and upset."

[CENIC]

I imagine either the Guerrins or Couslands could claim the Ferelden throne, if it came down to that.

 

I agree that it feels like a bit of a waste, given all the build up to who ascends to the throne in Origins, and how much influence the player has over that, but I'd rather have my efforts discarded for the sake of a stronger plot rather than have my efforts lead to one of many potential weaker plots.

[Ancientsaga]

I do think that bioware will come up with something for this in the future.

 

What i remember is:

There is claim that Anora maybe infertile in a DLC

 Anora did state to a female warden that Cailan had "other" woman on the side and it was okay with her if the warden remains with Alistair; just don't let her hear about it. So, maybe Cailan had a kid and the line is already preserved.

There is somewhere DG saying that 2 wardens "normal" cannot have kids together

 

What I’m thinking:

 

*just a warning if you wish not to hear about Fiona do NOT READ below*

 

Alistair's mother and her past in the wardens and her tainting may have done something different in Alistair’s blood that made him different.

 

and/or

 

Cailan has a child with another woman

 

 

These are just thoughts.

[animedreamer]

No one said that.  And just because a couple doesn't have kids, doesn't mean that the love they have is not worth it.  For all we know, Alistair and the Warden, if married, are able to select and name an heir for themselves.  There would still be political problems with that, because not everyone is going to necessarily accept it, but it would most likely prevent a full-blown civil war.

 

Political turmoil is what Dragon Age is all about.  But again, that doesn't mean that the romances don't matter, at least in terms of how it matters to those characters.

 

I would, actually, like to see a game in which I can choose to be married and have kids in the epilogue, though, maybe after a conversation about family or something.  But again, one of the biggest reasons for that not being done is because there are people who'd be infuriated if their character were forced into having a marriage and/or child that they didn't want... so it would have to somehow be made a choice in-game.  It might not be worth the effort to put that choice in; rather, you could head canon your preference.

 

I think the one way in which the Alistair/Warden/Anora thing was handled badly is that you can't really head canon it.  Either there's an heir, or there isn't.  It appears that there isn't, due to so many factors, and nor will there be (unless the heir is adopted).

 

I'm not disparaging what you want, I just don't think it's possible, lore-wise, unless Alistair (and the Lady Warden, if she married him) should be cured of the taint.  Even then, the Theirins aren't particularly fertile, and Anora might very well be barren.  That said, we don't know if Cailin might have a bastard child somewhere.

 

Im not even sure what your talking about.. this has nothing to do with love or couples or marriage.. I'm going to make it very simple where im coming from. Alistair is the last of his family, Ferelden was unified by his ancestor Calenhad, This bloodline is a symbol to the people of FERELDEN! It is VERY important to countrymen to see the forefathers legacy continue in some form or fashion, think modern day British Royal family, sure they don't have the same power they used to, but it is a symbol of pride for the people of that country that they maintain the royal bloodline, and not let something like that simply disappear. The same could be said of Ferelden, the people are obviously very patriotic, and passionate about their homeland, and it's rulers. I will again direct you to Arl Eamon's blurb about having a Therein on the throne. It Matters to the nobility, and thus indirectly to the commoners who owe fealty to the nobility who owe fealty to the royals. It doesn't matter one lick on whether or not Alistair loves Anora, the Warden, or if the Warden loved Anora. You are putting the political and by association the stability of ALL OF FERELDEN in jeopardy if there is NO HEIR to ascend the throne.  Orlai or any neighboring kingdom could easily Sack Ferelden because there is no ruler, no unifier to bring the nobles and their armies under one banner to prevent it, not to mention Civil War would break out as each noble family would obviously fight to take the throne.

 

So your point of love, and marriage, and whatever else is unimportant, this is for the stability of the future of Ferelden.

[animedreamer]

This posts sounds like: "People aren't agreeing with me so I'll just be snarky and upset."

Or it sounds like "This is crazy, Why didn't we get the option to...." proceed with post.

[Jeir]

One of the reasons, if not the reason, I kept Avernus alive in my playthroughs and allowed him to continue his research (ethically) was in the hopes that it may halt the spread of the taint, and thus give my Warden and Alistair more time to/a better chance at producing a child, as both are rather 'recent' Wardens and the taint may not yet be potent enough to completely obliterate any chance they have (despite the Blight..). Else, he could have pulled a Morrigan to help improve the chance of them having offspring, especially as Morrigan leaves the book/grimoire behind at the end of Witch Hunt, which may have had information about the Dark Ritual in it.

 

Of course, if his research had helped them with this particular situation, we probably would have heard something at least in DA2.

 

For those who romanced Zevran/Leliana, or who married Anora, that one parent isn't tainted improves their chances if they wanted kids, as well as the above with Avernus' research/Morrigan's book. The only question mark is over Leliana, as she's in all three games, but perhaps there was time enough between all her appearances to have a child and find somewhere safe for it.

 

As for implementation to ensure those who want their chars to have kids can, and those who don't, wont...DA Keep? Inquisitor/future PC gets into a conversation about the Ferelden royals ("Didn't they have an heir a few years back?" or "They never did have a child. I wonder who will be next in line.") or the Warden Commander (can't think of any direct comments as it would also depend on what Zev/Lel are up to) which allows the player to choose in the game, although it could be a little harder to implement this way.

 

It would be nice if players who want children to be part of their Warden's 'happy ending' could have that, and it's certainly what's in my headcanon, but even then it does seem unlikely. =/

[animedreamer]

I do think that bioware will come up with something for this in the future.

 

What i remember is:

There is claim that Anora maybe infertile in a DLC

 Anora did state to a female warden that Cailan had "other" woman on the side and it was okay with her if the warden remains with Alistair; just don't let her hear about it. So, maybe Cailan had a kid and the line is already preserved.

There is somewhere DG saying that 2 wardens "normal" cannot have kids together

 

What I’m thinking:

 

*just a warning if you wish not to hear about Fiona do NOT READ below*

 

Alistair's mother and her past in the wardens and her tainting may have done something different in Alistair’s blood that made him different.

 

and/or

 

Cailan has a child with another woman

 

 

These are just thoughts.

That's all fine and good if they bring it up... but the whole point is will we have this issue resolved in DA:I?

[animedreamer]

I'll throw this out there, taint, infertility, probability i don't believe any of that matters, if the writers say its possible then it's possible even if it's one in a million. Will they write a heir for any of our possible combinations as the successor to the throne or not. That's how I see it.