851 réponses à ce sujet

[Luminus]

Implementing a custom feat (like background) that disables the use of normal Wild Shaping (except Plant/Elementals) and replacing it with a custom Werewolf and Greater Werewolf shape shouldn't be too hard.

It's basically a feat that uses up Wild Shapes/day and a script that disables the normal ones from working.
Alternatively, it's making what Kaedrin did with the Barbarian and the two kinds of Rages. You get to select which one you want and you cannot select the other one.

[kamal_]

Isnt his lycanthropy part of his story? I forgot because I only ever had him in my party once.

[rjshae]

Isnt his lycanthropy part of his story? I forgot because I only ever had him in my party once.

 

It's part of the kit description. But that was written for AD&D, so some of the restrictions may not be appropriate for D&D v3.5. In particular, the character can't wear any armor presumably because he needs to transform. But in 3.5, the armor merges with the body during wildshape. Not allowing armor would make him a liability, unless it was compensated in some manner.

[Luminus]

It's part of the kit description. But that was written for AD&D, so some of the restrictions may not be appropriate for D&D v3.5. In particular, the character can't wear any armor presumably because he needs to transform. But in 3.5, the armor merges with the body during wildshape. Not allowing armor would make him a liability, unless it was compensated in some manner.

As far as I'm aware of, the Shapeshifter kit (along others) is basically homebrewed for Baldur's Gate II and they don't exist in ADnD or the sourcebooks.

One example is the Cavalier. It's a homebrew Paladin kit in BGII, while in ADnD it's a Fighter kit made for horseback riding and fighting.

The power levels of the Druid are already much higher than ADnD, with abilities like Natural Spell, Oaken Resilience, Animal/Elemental companions as well as Elemental Shapes.

Keeping the basic armor proficiencies are unimportant. While Wild Shaped, only a few properties and items merge into the shapes.
A Werewolf form that replaces the normal Wild Shapes and Dire Shapes without giving you the properties of items, would balance it out.
It can be edited in the Shape 2DAs what items merge or not.

Vanilla armor is pretty unimportant when a Druid could dip into Monk and render basic armor bonuses irrelevant while keeping that bonus in Wild Shape.

In other words:
Normal Druid Wild Shape = some item properties merge.
Werewolf Wild Shape = better stats/resistances/damage but no item properties would merge.

[Tchos]

As far as I'm aware of, the Shapeshifter kit (along others) is basically homebrewed for Baldur's Gate II and they don't exist in ADnD or the sourcebooks.

One example is the Cavalier. It's a homebrew Paladin kit in BGII, while in ADnD it's a Fighter kit made for horseback riding and fighting.

 

They probably shouldn't have tried to include a cavalier kit in a game that doesn't support riding horses.  I wouldn't appreciate an aviator kit that left out the aircraft, either.

 

(Or a sailor kit without the ships.)

[rjshae]

They probably shouldn't have tried to include a cavalier kit in a game that doesn't support riding horses.  I wouldn't appreciate an aviator kit that left out the aircraft, either.

 

Yes, it was very cavalier of them.

[Shallina]

Cernd will be able to lycantrop, I can make a feat for it, but i probably won' t make a PC kit for lycanthropy

[Dann-J]

As far as I'm aware of, the Shapeshifter kit (along others) is basically homebrewed for Baldur's Gate II and they don't exist in ADnD or the sourcebooks.

 

 

You could make him a Lythari (from Races of Faerun) if you wanted him to be canon.

[Luminus]

They probably shouldn't have tried to include a cavalier kit in a game that doesn't support riding horses.  I wouldn't appreciate an aviator kit that left out the aircraft, either.
 
(Or a sailor kit without the ships.)

Well you can be a Barbarian that grew up in Candlekeep (not very barbaric) or a Swashbuckler without needing to be a pirate or chivalric (three musketeers).
The kit represents that you are more knightly and trained to fight classic monsters of knights like dragons or demons, instead of undead (Undead Hunter) or evil mages (Inquisitor).
 
 

You could make him a Lythari (from Races of Faerun) if you wanted him to be canon.

Lythari are exclusively a race of elves that turn into Lycanthropes so it would be really non-canon for him, actually.

 

Cernd will be able to lycantrop, I can make a feat for it, but i probably won' t make a PC kit for lycanthropy

Like I said, it could just be an alternate class feature for Druids or a feat like Dinosaur Companion.
It's something that would be really fun and unique for people to play with.

[Tchos]

Well you can be a Barbarian that grew up in Candlekeep (not very barbaric) or a Swashbuckler without needing to be a pirate or chivalric (three musketeers).
The kit represents that you are more knightly and trained to fight classic monsters of knights like dragons or demons, instead of undead (Undead Hunter) or evil mages (Inquisitor).

 

Yeah, but cavalier has the word "horse" built right into the word (the caval part, same as chevalier, caballero, and cavalry), so it's a horseman without a horse (its most defining characteristic).  It's like a musketeer in a game without muskets.

[kamal_]

It's like a musketeer in a game without candy bars.

I'd argue that the party does have horses, they use them to travel between locations more rapidly seeing how there is a hurry to save a certain someone and later to defeat the bad guy. The horses are simply offscreen (and arent brought into dungeons because they can't be ridden into those narrow corridors), kept in stables or tied to trees somewhere. The party dismounts for mobility in the locations.

[Tchos]

We're still talking about Baldur's Gate, right?  Where it takes 4 hours to get from Nashkel to the Nashkel Mines?  4 hours of riding a horse would put you far enough away that it shouldn't be called Nashkel anymore.

[kamal_]

We're still talking about Baldur's Gate, right?  Where it takes 4 hours to get from Nashkel to the Nashkel Mines?  4 hours of riding a horse would put you far enough away that it shouldn't be called Nashkel anymore.

I can believe that. Many mines in rugged areas (I'm thinking of the gold mines of eastern California for instance) got their names from the nearest town. The miners would go up and spend a week or a month camped at the mine because the town was several hours away in the valley below.

All I'm saying is that in BG2/ToB, the player has a clear story reasons to take a faster method of travel than walking. And there are spots where allies would clearly give you horses to speed you up (such as after leaving the Underdark) purely out of their own interest.

I view it as one of those things thats just handwaved as happening offscreen due to technical issues such as animation and handling the possibility of horseback combat.

[Tchos]

I'll take your word for it about those mines and miners.

 

There used to be a joke about why everyone in Morrowind had the body of an athlete (after the previous game, Daggerfall, had a variety of body types for NPCs) and they said that it was because the Dunmer eat horses, so everyone there has to travel by walking and running.  The same joke also explained why they didn't have ridable horses in Morrowind, despite having them in the previous game.

[Dann-J]

 

Lythari are exclusively a race of elves that turn into Lycanthropes so it would be really non-canon for him, actually.

 

 

With his long hair that covers his ears, who's to say he's really a human? We're only taking his word for it. Only his hairdresser knowns for sure. 

 

His portrait looks quite Lythari to me (the race seems to be strongly influenced by native American culture). Lythari are also known to become druids. His son would then have to be a half-elf, which might explain his actions later on - a stereotypically disaffected half-breed who doesn't feel he belongs anywhere.

 

Or there's the 'Man Called Horse' scenario, where a human (or a group of humans) is initiated into a Lythari tribe, thus allowing them to use canon Lythari rules for non-evil werewolves without the need for any home-brew nonsense.

 

Half the fun of remaking something is to tinker with the storyline. Otherwise you might as well be playing the original game.
 

[Luminus]

With his long hair that covers his ears, who's to say he's really a human? We're only taking his word for it. Only his hairdresser knowns for sure. 

 

His portrait looks quite Lythari to me (the race seems to be strongly influenced by native American culture). Lythari are also known to become druids. His son would then have to be a half-elf, which might explain his actions later on - a stereotypically disaffected half-breed who doesn't feel he belongs anywhere.

 

Or there's the 'Man Called Horse' scenario, where a human (or a group of humans) is initiated into a Lythari tribe, thus allowing them to use canon Lythari rules for non-evil werewolves without the need for any home-brew nonsense.

 

Half the fun of remaking something is to tinker with the storyline. Otherwise you might as well be playing the original game.
 

Well for one, only Humans and Half-Elves can be Druids in ADnD. His facial features compared to elves (Viconia, Half-Elf Jaheira, Aerie, Neera) as well as his character sheet.

Tinkering is one thing, changing his race and background to something that he's not just to explain the Shapeshifter kit is a bit too far-fetched.
Nevermind that creating a Lythari race (which is fine) would take more effort than a simple Druid Werewolf Shape feat.

I would prefer a (Background) Feat or Alternate Class Feature to simulate the Shapeshifter kit, personally.
Giving him an exclusive ability to turn into a werewolf seems like the easiest path but there's so much potential for fun by making a Werewolf Shape feat for Druids that overrides the animal forms.
And it's the equivalent of the Dinosaur Companion. You use a feat to get a stronger companion but the other you had becomes forever locked out.

[Arkalezth]

If I were the module's author, I wouldn't go out of my way to make every character work like their original kits' counterparts, not to mention changing their backgrounds for the sake of it. It's a different set of rules, so mechanics are supposed to be different, and unless Cernd is indeed a real werewolf, which is not the case AFAIK, he could just be a basic druid, or a druid/druid PRC. I'm not exactly -against- a werewolf model or something like that, but I don't find it necessary.

 

I must say I'm impressed by the attention Cernd's getting here, considering he's likely one of the least used companions in the game.

[Luminus]

Actually, Cernd is a real werewolf since Shapeshifter Druids get infected with it, they just learn to master it, hence the kit.

I'm fine either way with simply giving an ability for Cernd only that lets him turn into a Werewolf and Greater Werewolf at appropriate levels (14 for GW).
I just think that it's a good opportunity to make it a feat or trait for PCs as well.

If a custom ability will be made for him to turn into a Werewolf, it can easily be turned into a Druid-only background feat. The blueprints will already be there (model, stats, feat, scripts), it's just a matter of turning it into a selectable feat for Druids only.

[Arkalezth]

Actually, Cernd is a real werewolf since Shapeshifter Druids get infected with it, they just learn to master it, hence the kit.

Yeah, you're right. Just checked the in-game description.
 

I'm fine either way with simply giving an ability for Cernd only that lets him turn into a Werewolf and Greater Werewolf at appropriate levels (14 for GW).

13 according to the kit's description, but if it's done, it could be at levels 5 and 12, which are the equivalents of Wild Shape and the dire forms for normal druids.

[Luminus]

Yeah, you're right. Just checked the in-game description.

13 according to the kit's description, but if it's done, it could be at levels 6 and 12, which are the equivalents of Wild Shape and the dire forms for normal druids.

Yeah, or 5 and 12 (since you get your first animal forms at 5).

How I would do it:
-make it a Background Feat (like Spellcasting Prodigy or Heritage)
-requiring 1 Druid level
-call it like "Shapeshifter" with a script that uses Wild Shape uses like Kaedrin's custom Wild Shape feats (Elemental Essence, Toxic Gift)
-makes normal Wild Shapes do nothing with a script as well (replacing the animal forms).
-Plant/Elemental shape would be excluded and Dragon Shape as well (since Greater Werewolf doesn't scale beyond level 13 in BG).

[Arkalezth]

Yeah, or 5 and 12 (since you get your first animal forms at 5).

Err... yeah, 5 and 12 it is. Had a brainfart there.

[Tchos]

Well for one, only Humans and Half-Elves can be Druids in ADnD.

 
Not saying Cernd is an elf, but the AD&D Unearthed Arcana allowed elves (except drow) to become druids.

[drechner]

I love the conversation surrounding Cernd, especially since he isn't the most popular of companions like Arkalezth said

 

I hate to shift topics, but here's a new screenshot of Nalia in-engine:

 

 

Like someone on the Facebook page said, "Nalia needs resting ****** face", and I'm inclined to agree perhaps

 

She doesn't look exactly like the original, but I'm pretty happy with the way she turned out.

[Luminus]

 
Not saying Cernd is an elf, but the AD&D Unearthed Arcana allowed elves (except drow) to become druids.

Well, 3E's Unearthed Arcana allows Paladins to be evil (Tyranny, Slaughter) or Chaotic (Paladin of Freedom) so that's not saying much.

And while there are Elven Druids in ADnD, they are more of a rule exception. Maybe for balance reasons. But generally, only Half-Elves and Humans became Druids with the standard rules.


Also Nalia is looking good (as well as all the new heads). Some on the BGEE forums suggested that she should be a Sorceress (with Invisibility and Knock) and it would be a nice change here, since she is practically a worse copy of Imoen.
Making her kind of redundant. So some class variety like in BGR would be great to see.

[Tchos]

Well, 3E's Unearthed Arcana allows Paladins to be evil (Tyranny, Slaughter) or Chaotic (Paladin of Freedom) so that's not saying much.

And while there are Elven Druids in ADnD, they are more of a rule exception. Maybe for balance reasons. But generally, only Half-Elves and Humans became Druids with the standard rules.

Some on the BGEE forums suggested that she should be a Sorceress (with Invisibility and Knock) and it would be a nice change here, since she is practically a worse copy of Imoen.
Making her kind of redundant.

 

Many of the elven gods in that edition are also statted with druid levels, which Gygax approved as "legal".  As for paladins, I don't see why a paladin of an evil god shouldn't be evil as well.

 

I think Nalia's supposed to be more or less a copy of Imoen, to fill that role during Imoen's absence.