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[Arkalezth]

Some on the BGEE forums suggested that she should be a Sorceress (with Invisibility and Knock) and it would be a nice change here, since she is practically a worse copy of Imoen.
Making her kind of redundant. So some class variety like in BGR would be great to see.

I've always thought that Nalia could have made a good bard. Mechanically, she's already part thief and part wizard, which is not too different from a bard, and being a noble, it would make sense for her to be educated in the arts. Plus she wouldn't feel like a second Imoen that way, and it would mean that players who aren't using Haer'Dalis or playing a bard themselves could still have one in their parties.

PS: I don't know about Nalia's resting ****** face, but her aunt should definitely have one.

Edit:

I think Nalia's supposed to be more or less a copy of Imoen, to fill that role during Imoen's absence.

Agreed, but I think that ultimately hurted her character, as she's still often seen as a "fake Imoen", rather than her own person. Which is a shame, because I find her a well developed character with a great background. And it's not like there are no other rogues or rogue/mages for you to recruit.

[Luminus]

Because Paladins in ADnD and 3E can only be Lawful Good. The Paladin alignment thing is a whole thread and topic of it's own.
My point was that those were exceptions, not the rules. Especially for Paladins which only support other alignments after 3.5E and in 3E only with the non lore-canon variant rule.

Well, there's Yoshimo and Aerie to fill those roles, that's why she is redundant. It's a good change to apply the BGR idea of class variety in SOAR as well.
And Nalia seems like the best fit.

After getting Imoen back and throughout ToB, most discard Nalia because Imoen is back and Nalia doesn't bring something new or interesting to the table, unlike Aerie or Neera (BGEE) for example.

Agreed, but I think that ultimately hurted her character. She has a good background and all, but see's still often seen as a "fake Imoen", rather than her own person. And it's not like there are no other rogues or rogue/mages for you to recruit.

Exactly. I could see her as a Bard as well. Then, you could have a good party with Aerie, Imoen and Nalia without anyone being redundant.

[drechner]

Also Nalia is looking good (as well as all the new heads). 

 

Thanks!

 

Some on the BGEE forums suggested that she should be a Sorceress (with Invisibility and Knock) and it would be a nice change here, since she is practically a worse copy of Imoen.
Making her kind of redundant. So some class variety like in BGR would be great to see. 

 

Yes, we're thinking of doing something similar with her, especially considering the lack of variety in BG2's NPCs. Nalia has a surprisingly deep backstory and sidequests, so it'd be a shame to not have a reason to keep her around.

  

[Tchos]

Agreed, but I think that ultimately hurted her character, as see's still often seen as a "fake Imoen", rather than her own person. Which is a shame, because I find her a well developed character with a great background. And it's not like there are no other rogues or rogue/mages for you to recruit.

 

I agree, Nalia didn't really need to be a rogue, nor did it seem to make much sense for her character, even as a "Robin Hood" type.  She didn't need to rob from the rich to give to the poor.  I liked her background and personality, myself.

 

Because Paladins in ADnD and 3E can only be Lawful Good. The Paladin alignment thing is a whole thread and topic of its own.
My point was that those were exceptions, not the rules. Especially for Paladins which only support other alignments after 3.5E and in 3E only with the non lore-canon variant rule.

Well, there's Yoshimo and Aerie to fill those roles, that's why she is redundant. It's a good change to apply the BGR idea of class variety in SOAR as well.
And Nalia seems like the best fit.

 

Redundant mechanically, perhaps, but they have different personalities that appeal to different players.  (I personally don't like them all equally.)  But it's true I would likely drop Nalia after getting Imoen back.

 

Re.: Paladins: My understanding is that the supplements override the core books, as long as the DM allows it, and Unearthed Arcana is an official book.  Thus it is certainly a rule, and it doesn't matter if it's exceptional or not, because these heroic tales are always about exceptional individuals.  I would absolutely approve it, because a paladin is a divine knight, and if the divinity is evil, then the paladin logically should be evil.

[Luminus]

While we are at it and to get it out of my system, here are my suggestions/ideas for the classes of the NPCs, based on their background and kits. Or what I would build them as if I could.
They could be debated freely and let you decide, these are just the most fitting ideas in my opinion:

Minsc - standard Barbarian -> Frenzied Berserker if people want it.

Aerie - Cleric/Wizard. She starts level 2 with 1 level in both classes and has the XP to level her anyway you want (Mystic Theurge).

Nalia - Bard or Sorceress

Valygar - Ranger/Scout with Swift Hunter feat (Sneak Attack progression) to simulate the Stalker kit. Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting and STR based with Exotic Weapons. (He had two points in Katanas if I am not mistaken).

Imoen - Rogue1 (or 3)/Wizard but with the Able Learner feat. She was mostly a Mage with some Rogue skills.

Keldorn - standard Paladin with Anointed Knight or Champion of the Silver Flame (AK for the spell-less, anti-mage part with Spell Resistance, same for CotSF to simulate the Inquisitor)

Jaheira - Druid/Nature's Warrior 5 or pure Druid. Even some Fighter levels.

Cernd - What I suggested above. Pure Druid with a custom Werewolf background feat that replaces the animal forms with that of a Werewolf and Greater Werewolf. Or just a unique spell-like ability exclusive to him. Would like to see it available to PCs, though.

Mazzy - Fighter/Divine Champion, DEX-based. Or a Dex-based Paladin perhaps.

Jan - Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster, naturally.

Anomen - Could be a Favored Soul or a battle Cleric.

Edwin - Wizard/Red Wizard, simple.

Haer'Dalis - Dex-based Bard with Shortswords and Snowflake Wardance (Blade kit).

Korgan - Fighter/Frenzied Berserker

Viconia - Cleric of Shar with some more viable stats than in BGR (18 DEX, 18 WIS, 10 CON, 10 STR, rest INT and CHA to make her look most accurate to BG2)

Yoshimo - standard Rogue. Perhaps Dread Commando.

Sarevok - Fighter/Weapon Master in Greatsword/Falchion perhaps to simulate those brutal Deathbringer Assaults.
Nevermind that Intimidate and high Intelligence and Dexterity fit his character and BGs stats.

[rjshae]

Imoen would make a decent arcane trickster character. At higher levels I usually use her as my rogue for locks & traps, but her lack of skill progress was a drawback. I agree that making Nalia a sorceress would be an interesting option.

[Luminus]

Imoen would make a decent arcane trickster character. At higher levels I usually use her as my rogue for locks & traps, but her lack of skill progress was a drawback. I agree that making Nalia a sorceress would be an interesting option.

The same result could be achieved with a dip in Rogue and Able Learner to simulate that Dual-class. Making her an Arcane Trickster like Jan might be a little redundant but also works.

[Arkalezth]

Imoen could already become an AT in BGR. Same for Minsc and FB, and Edwin with RW. Valygar comes with his personal katana in BG2.
 

Aerie - Cleric/Wizard. She starts level 2 with 1 level in both classes and has the XP to level her anyway you want (Mystic Theurge).

Agreed, but I wouldn't necessarily start her at level 2. She could be, say, level 8 or 10 (which should be closer to your own level), but still with half the levels in each class. I know it won't work as well as in BG2 this way, but the possibility of a wizard 19/cleric 1 is a bit too cheesy IMO.
 

Jaheira - Druid/Nature's Warrior 5 or pure Druid. Even some Fighter levels.

IIRC, she can be a druid/warpriest in BGR, which sounds about right to me.
 

Cernd

All werewolfness aside, Nature's Warrior could be a good PRC for him.
 

Mazzy - Fighter/Divine Champion, DEX-based. Or a Dex-based Paladin perhaps.

Spoiler

The game specifically says that she never reaches the paladin status, so I'd stay away from that class.

F/DC sounds good to me.
 

Anomen - Could be a Favored Soul or a battle Cleric.

Cleric/warpriest IMO. I suppose you can have a FS for variety (BGR did), but RP-wise, he isn't a chosen of Helm.
 

Keldorn.

I don't know if it's fitting or not, but the new version of Kaedrin's pack added the templar class (among a few others). Just throwing it out there for consideration.

About the rest, I either agree or have nothing in particular to comment.

[Luminus]

@Arkalezth

Either way it's good for Aerie. 1-4 levels seem fine and the rest is taken care by Practiced Spellcaster. Anymore than that she would be lagging really far behind to be viable and fun and people would leave her for someone else.

I don't like the Templar for Keldorn. Inquisitors are spell-less, Turn Undead-less Paladins that throw really powerful Dispels and have True Sight.
Since no PrC comes close to those, a PrC that is Paladin-like (like AK) or CotSF and gives Spell Resistance (anti-mage in a way) seems like the best path.
He would also be able to use (Epic) Divine Might as well as Carsomyr which are big pluses.

I would go with Anointed Knight since he gets Holy Sight (Blind Fight) and is the closest to Inquisitor.
They can continue with Paladin afterwards.

[Shallina]

for character which come from BGR i'll try to import their "build" made by the player. I think it' s possible.

 

 

So the current plan is :when you'll encounter a character you had with you in the final fight with Sarevok, is to allow you to take SOAR "default version", or to import the build you made in BGR. If I can' t do it, it still possbile to allow to level them from scractch.

 

This is important especially for Jaheira and Imoen which can be build in a lot of different way.

[Tchos]

This is important especially for Jaheira and Imoen which can be build in a lot of different way.

 

Yeah...personally, I leveled Imoen as pure thief the whole way through BG1.  I didn't like all the multiclassing going on in BG2, but to get pure classes, the choices were sort of limited to an evil party.

[kamal_]

I had thought Mazzy wasn't a paladin because of the 2e only humans can be paladins rule?

Airie says at one point in ToB that she is one of the most powerful spellcasters in the Realms. She is right as she can cast max level cleric and wizard spells by that point. I dont remember if she says her cleric/wizard spell flexibility is why she is so powerful.

Yoshimo is a bounty hunter, I dont think pure rogue would suit, but I'm not sure what prc would be best.

[rjshae]

Airie says at one point in ToB that she is one of the most powerful spellcasters in the Realms. She is right as she can cast max level cleric and wizard spells by that point. I dont remember if she says her cleric/wizard spell flexibility is why she is so powerful.

 

Something I remain curious about is whether Rasael's Replacement Magic System will permit a mystic theurge class build.

 

Mostly just wondering about the capabilities.

[Shallina]

I won t put something which doesn t work fully in SOAR.

[Arkalezth]

I had thought Mazzy wasn't a paladin because of the 2e only humans can be paladins rule?

 

Well, from her bio:

 

Spoiler

"Mazzy is a dedicated servant of Arvoreen, the halfling god of war, and she resents the common perception by the bigger races that the stout folk cannot defend themselves or act with valor. If she could, Mazzy would be a paladin and battle against evil in Faerun with the full power of her god to aid her."

 

Whether that has anything to do with the race restrictions, I don't know, but it seems to be part of her story anyway. It didn't stop the devs of the EE version from making Dorn an illegal half-orc blackguard. Not exactly the same thing, but Minsc also has illegal attributes for a ranger, etc.

 

Edit: I had a save at the end of TOB. It seems I was wrong about Mazzy's epilogue earlier; I guess I was thinking of her bio, or maybe some banter.

Spoiler

The epilogue just says that she she was very brave and could be proud of everything she did in her long life, but no mention of the paladin thing.

 

Edit 2: Just found out that it was suggested to make her a paladin in BG2EE, and here are some of the devs' replies:

 

- "I always viewed Mazzy's being a fighter as a symbol of her trials being a halfling crusader in a realm where halflings aren't considered to be "noble" enough to be proper knights. For me, it's part of her character that she isn't a paladin, and it's clearly left a chip on her shoulder, so I definitely wouldn't change that no matter how much I want her to be one personally."

 

- "Mazzy's striving for an ideal that even she knows she can't reach, and that drive is an essential and compelling part of her personality. If she really is a paladin, she becomes yet another one-dimensional, goody two-shoes paladin stereotype--the absence of that is what makes her interesting."

[Luminus]

Yoshimo is a bounty hunter, I dont think pure rogue would suit, but I'm not sure what prc would be best.

There's no PrC (from K's pack at least) that focuses on setting unique traps.
But the Rogue class is flexible. You can roleplay and build it as anything: ninja, pirate, spy, thug, swashbuckler, stealth archer, con-man, trap specialist.

The best it can be done, is giving me Skill Focus in Craft Trap, Set Trap and Disable Device and then at 10th level, Skill Mastery.
So when he recovers the deadly BG2 traps, he can set them himself or create them from stuff you can buy or find.

You don't get to keep him for too long so it doesn't really matter. A simple Rogue with skills and feats in the right places (like the "Rogue, Bandit" package) can emulate the Bounty Hunter.

[rjshae]

 

- "Mazzy's striving for an ideal that even she knows she can't reach, and that drive is an essential and compelling part of her personality. If she really is a paladin, she becomes yet another one-dimensional, goody two-shoes paladin stereotype--the absence of that is what makes her interesting."

 

She can always PrC as a Divine Champion of Avoreen (whose preferred weapon is the short sword).

[Arkalezth]

That's what I said, fighter/divine champion sounds perfect for her. She's mostly focused on shortbows by the time you recruit her, though she also has a couple of pips on short swords. She should have room for the main feats for both weapons by level 20, if so desired.

[Luminus]

*Ahem* I said it first. No fair.

I could also totally see her as a Champion of the Wild PrC. Heavy Armor, Martial Weapons, Dex-based.
They are basically Dex-based Paladin-like PrCs for elves of Corellon but the modified PrC's description and lore, really fit to any generic Dex-based character with Heavy Armor and it gives Paladin-like abilities as well.

"In order to become a champion of the wild, an initiate must excel in swordplay and exhibit patience, grace, and compassion. To take joy only in feat of arms is to live a crude and diminished life. There is more to life than fighting well, and the true champion knows this. Champions of the wild embody discipline and skill and relies on quickness, agility, and an almost scholarly study of the most difficult and advanced techniques of swordplay instead of brute power."

This really fits to Mazzy, I think and it's a great PrC.
 

[Arkalezth]

I mean that I said that I'd make her a divine champion but not a paladin. DC also gives her Lay on Hands, which she has in BG2.

 

I don't know anything about COTW's lore (though the class' description seems fitting), so I have no opinion in that regard. I think divine champion should take precedence either way, though. Mechanically, the main feature of COTW doesn't work with short swords, which would be odd in this particular case. 

 

In addition to bard, Haer'Dalis could have access to a PRC such as tempest, dervish, or something similar, even if those don't advance spellcasting and all the bardic stuff.

[drechner]

Did someone say "Mazzy"?

 

 

I'm still trying to figure out what to do with her hair as the stock NWN2 hair I thought I could use didn't turn out like I thought it would

[kamal_]

I think her hair needs more volume. She has straight hair in her portrait, but it's thick like dreadlocks and comes up off her head. Also her jawline is stronger under her cheeks than that.

 

/not that I could do anything like that.

//more heads for black/african people are on the list of things I'd like, so Mazzy and Valygar are on my list of excited to see.

[drechner]

She looks better with thicker hair (and a couple tweaks to her diffuse), though I think I might need to revisit her a bit later.

 

[Dann-J]

All this talk of NPCs is great and all, but what of the important question; Will there be pantaloons?

[Tchos]

I don't know why Mazzy can't be a paladin either, but have you run with both her and Anomen in the party?  He's disgustingly rude to her, and displays effrontery at her noble bearing, saying she's no paladin and never will be.