829 réponses à ce sujet

[Shallina]

I don' t want a crappy half baked solution. I want something fully functionnal, and for now it 's out of scope.

[rjshae]

It can also work with this GUI but that's only "needed" for spontaneous casters. A Cleric/Wizard or Druid/Wizard or a Cleric/Druid (if such a combo exists for a PrC) all get their spells automaticall.y

 

I know, but it sounds like they need to cover all possible class progressions in order to include the PrC in the game (even if the GUI isn't technically necessary for Aerie). With the GUI available, at this point is there anything else holding back somebody from developing a Mystic Theurge PrC for general use? Their only benefit seems to be the spell progression, so no new special abilities are needed. Maybe a class symbol icon is needed?

[Luminus]

Aerie is a hard case to create in NwN2.
So if Shallina doesn't like the Mystic Theurge, I propose these solutions instead of making her a Favored Soul like Quayle.

1) She's an Avariel. That race doesn't exist, so it has to be created and giving her, her PnP stats but no wings.
Here are the Avariel stats: http://dndtools.eu/r...23/avariel--95/
I would lower her Level Adjustment since she lacks wings. +2 LA is balanced.

2) She's an elf, they cannot select Gnome deities (Baervan Wildwanderer). So she would have to select a different god. Unless, a custom Avariel race is made that allows Gnome gods just for her.

3) She cannot be a Cleric or Favored Soul of Aerdrie Faenya because she's Lawful Good. Aerdrie is a Chaotic Good god. She could be turned into Neutral Good perhaps, or like I said, make a custom race for her that allows Gnome gods, so she can be a Cleric of Baervan.

4) Best Solution: By lore, Avariel's Favored Class is Cleric. So, custom race Avariel (-2 STR, +4 DEX, -2 CON, +2 INT, +2 WIS. +2 LA because no Wings) of Baervan Wildwanderer with the "Cleric, Nature" package which gives her the Animal and Plant Domains, both canon Domains of Baervan and with a Badger companion.
Here's Baervan's stats and domains: http://nwn2.wikia.co...an_Wildwanderer
Perfect fit.

That way she can focus on bows (Zen Archery) and offensive spells from the Cleric spellbook.

5) Make Anomen a Favored Soul of Helm instead. He is more of a warrior type and Favored Souls are Paladin-like in a way (chosen by gods, CHA-based, divine class bonuses) and his background means that he wanted to be a Paladin.

In the end, this would fit great with their personalities.
Aerie a nature Cleric of Baervan with a badger companion.
Anomen a Favored Soul warrior of Helm.
Viconia a Cleric of Shar.

[rjshae]

Okay, well if nobody else volunteers, I might try experimenting with it to see how well it can be implemented with the spell selection GUI. (Time permitting...) It looks somewhat like a mix of spellcasting elements from Sacred Fist and Eldritch Knight, plus the appropriate skills and prereqs.

 

It'd be nice to have it available, regardless.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Anomen struggled at what he did at best. He is nowhere near the personality or demeanour of a favourite soul. Terrible Match there and bad match for his abilities

8 cleric with all following levels in war priest prestige

[Shallina]

At the moment the only compagnion is Sarevok, and he's in only for testing conversations and scripts with a party, and scripts related to him....

 

So speaking of what class each NPC should be is clearly way to early when we don' t even have 1/20 of the area of the game

[Luminus]

Anomen struggled at what he did at best. He is nowhere near the personality or demeanour of a favourite soul. Terrible Match there and bad match for his abilities

8 cleric with all following levels in war priest prestige

Yes, that works as well, the problem is redundancy.  Three pure Clerics is a bit boring.
And people didn't complain that Quayle (with his wizardy style and "huge brain" comments) was turned into a Favored Soul with top charisma.
That was an even more terrible match in my opinion.

Instead I suggested he is turned into a Loremaster type Bard (Gnome's favored class in 3.5E is Bard) instead of a FS.
The problem was that there were two other Bards in BGR, Garrick and Eldoth.

I have no problem seeing him as a pure Cleric. Perhaps Aerie could be one with a custom race that allows Gnome gods but she'll be a crappy FS because of her stats.

[Arkalezth]

Yes, that works as well, the problem is redundancy.  Three pure Clerics is a bit boring.
And people didn't complain that Quayle (with his wizardy style and "huge brain" comments) was turned into a Favored Soul with top charisma.
That was an even more terrible match in my opinion.

 

Well, variety is fine, but technically, the difference between clerics and FS should be the character's background, regardless of personality. Whether he looks for the god or the god looks for him, to put it in some way.

 

I'm not a great fan of spellcasting being tied to mental stats for reasons like the one you mention in your example.

 

Either way, what Shallina said.

[Eguintir Eligard]

What three pure clerics are there? And it isnt redundant its bg2 not a build battle, parties in this game have as much to do with the personality than anything else.

[Luminus]

What three pure clerics are there? And it isnt redundant its bg2 not a build battle, parties in this game have as much to do with the personality than anything else.

Aerie. Cleric (unless they change her).
Anomen. Cleric.
Viconia. Cleric.

Anyway. I offered my suggestions, we'll see in the future.

[rjshae]

Three allows for variety in party builds and accommodates good/evil parties. You don't want to have just one to choose from.

[Eguintir Eligard]

You're counting is way off. There is one pure cleric and only one. Aerie is half wizard and anomen is half fighter

[Luminus]

You're counting is way off. There is one pure cleric and only one. Aerie is half wizard and anomen is half fighter

No, I am talking about the implementation of them in SOAR if you haven't noticed.
I know she's a half Wizard. I made various posts about it.

Shallina doesn't want Aerie to be a Mystic Theurge (Cleric/Mage PrC). So either she is turned into a pure Cleric with the corresponding Domains of Baervan, or a Favored Soul like Quayle was.

Out of those two options, a Cleric is the best option because of her background and gameplay reasons.
And you don't want Anomen as a Favored Soul either.

So, three Clerics. It's not off.

[Dann-J]

Why not make Aerie a wizard/cleric like in the original game?

 

I've got two duel-classed companions in the module I'm currently working on; a hobgoblin fighter/rogue and an uthgardt barbarian/ranger. When they're ready to level up, their custom event scripts set their levelup packages depending on whether they have an odd or even number of levels. Here's what the barbarian/ranger script looks like:

//Switch between packages on alternate levels

void main()
{
int nEvent = GetUserDefinedEventNumber();

switch (nEvent)
	{
		case 2053: //EVENT_PLAYER_CAN_LEVEL_UP
		{
			object oTarget = OBJECT_SELF;
			int iHD = GetHitDice(oTarget);
			float fHDhalf = IntToFloat(iHD) / 2;
			int iHDhalf = iHD / 2;
			
		if ( IntToFloat(iHDhalf) == fHDhalf )
			SetLevelUpPackage(oTarget, 7);//Default Ranger
		else
			SetLevelUpPackage(oTarget, 0);//Default Barbarian			
		break;
		}//end case
	}//end switch			
}

[rjshae]

 

Why not make Aerie a wizard/cleric like in the original game?

 

Because of poor spell progression for multi-classed characters in D&D v3.5. She just wouldn't be as effective as she was with the AD&D ruleset.

[Arkalezth]

 

Why not make Aerie a wizard/cleric like in the original game?

 

Yeah, I don't see the reasoning behind "no mystic theurge -> pure cleric". Sure, a half wizard/half cleric may not be the strongest combination ever, but it'd be consistent with the original. Certain domains give some wizard spells, but it's not the same. On the other hand, Quayle was also a wizard/cleric and was turned into a FS, and Tiax went from thief/cleric to warlock, so I don't know.

 

Anomen sounds about right as a cleric/warpriest, maybe unlocking the latter (or divine champion?)  with his personal quest.

 

PS: I wish Uthgardt was a deity in the vanilla game.

[Luminus]

Personally, I would rather see a different but useful implementation, than a copy-paste but crappy one.

Why? Because people playing the module would go:
"Ah, she's a Cleric/Wizard like in the original, but now she's total garbage because this doesn't work with 3.5E rules. Alright, let's pick another NPC".
Including myself.

A "half-baked" Mystic Theurge is infinitely better than just a Cleric/Wizard multiclass.
Mystic Theurge, Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster etc were created for a reason in 3.5E. They didn't exist in 3.0E. And ADnD didn't need them.

Also, the remakes follow the spirit of the originals, not the letter. It's pointless to try to make everything the same even if it doesn't work.
That's why Minsc was turned into a Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker, instead of a Ranger with heavy armor and a custom rage ability.

 

[Dann-J]

Because of poor spell progression for multi-classed characters in D&D v3.5. She just wouldn't be as effective as she was with the AD&D ruleset.

 

I remember her being *too* effective in BG2. I tended to use her as a one-person dragon killer.

[Luminus]

I remember her being *too* effective in BG2. I tended to use her as a one-person dragon killer.

Yup, she was awesome in the originals. Not so much with 3.5E rules. That's why PrCs are needed. Or choosing a different class.

[Eguintir Eligard]

War priest is better for anomen than divine champ because hes not a multi class. He was a fighter to level 8ish and then all future levels are cleric only due to the human dual class. So war priest emphasizes the slant correctly.

[Dann-J]

Yup, she was awesome in the originals. Not so much with 3.5E rules. That's why PrCs are needed.

 

I'm sure there are creative ways to compensate. A couple of practiced spell caster feats, for instance. Perhaps some spell penetration feats. Maybe some carefully chosen cleric domains, like Magic and Knowledge to compliment her arcane spells. What about boosting her intelligence and wisdom? Tweaking her stats has to be a lot easier than implementing a brand new PrC.

 

It's not like she'll be starting at level 1. BG2 started at the BG level cap (89,000 xp), which is almost level 14 in NWN2.

[Luminus]

I'm sure there are creative ways to compensate. A couple of practiced spell caster feats, for instance. Perhaps some spell penetration feats. Maybe some carefully chosen cleric domains, like Magic and Knowledge to compliment her arcane spells. What about boosting her intelligence and wisdom? Tweaking her stats has to be a lot easier than implementing a brand new PrC.

 

It's not like she'll be starting at level 1. BG2 started at the BG level cap (89,000 xp), which is almost level 14 in NWN2.

I believe I suggested that in a previous post.
The problem is that they can only use the vanilla packages to customize the domains. That's why Viconia in BGR has the "Cleric, Crusader" package (or is it the Dead Walker package? Not sure.)

They could also use Zhjaeve's Cleric package from the OC as well (Magic and Knowledge).

I'm fine either way, really. The Nature package gives her the Animal and Plant domains which are canon Baervan's domains.
Magic and Knowledge give her a more Wizardry feel on the other hand.

But I think that she should be either a Mystic Theurge or a pure Cleric.
Just a Cleric/Wizard multiclass is just a lazy implementation I think.

Also Aerie's stats are best translated in 3.5E as 10 STR, 16 DEX, 10 CON 16 INT, 16 WIS, 10-12 CHA more or less.

And ADnD's xp progression is not the the same as 3.5E. Since you find her at around 8-10 level, that should be her starting level and it's the level the protagonist reaches at BGR.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Ya classes had different level rates in 2nd Ed. People have mentioned bg being a level ten cap it wasn't and it wasn't capped on level at all but xp. Rogues got to level to ten while fighters were only 8et c

[Dann-J]

The Nature package gives her the Animal and Plant domains which are canon Baervan's domains.
 

 

Wouldn't an avariel be more likely to have the Air domain? Or would that be insensitive, given her clipped wings?

 

I always found the biggest impediment to having her as a party member was her annoying whining. She had a knack for waiting until you'd fully buffed and be about to engage enemies, then interrupt with a depressing rant. I'd be quickly trying to get through her conversation before my buffs ran out.

[Tchos]

I always found the biggest impediment to having her as a party member was her annoying whining. She had a knack for waiting until you'd fully buffed and be about to engage enemies, then interrupt with a depressing rant. I'd be quickly trying to get through her conversation before my buffs ran out.

 

I reluctantly have to agree.  I really wanted to like her, but her breakdown was very ill-timed.