27 réponses à ce sujet

[MagicalMaster]

As many of you are aware, the default Hellball visual has the side effect of crashing the game a decent chunk of the time.  I've been doing some work to create a reasonable alternative that looks decent but, y'know, doesn't crash the game.

 

Let me know what you think of these ideas, looking for feedback/new ideas/criticism/etc.

 

Two ideas (number one and two) in this video.  The first was an attempt to have Sonic/Electric/Fire visuals, the second is just a massive blast.

 

Another idea (the third) in this short video, someone wanted "pillars" of visual effects (updated slightly with new video).

 

A fourth idea.  Someone thought the very first idea looked like lightning arcing out of the center and wanted to see it strike random places and then have a fiery explosion at the strike location.

[The Amethyst Dragon]

I like the first one best, MagicalMaster.  Nice work.

[WhiZard]

My vote is for the second.  The first seems to be overdoing things with a chain reaction feel.  The blue part (is that from great thunderclap?) also gives the feel that it is putting out the explosion in the first one, while being part of the explosion in the second.

[MagicalMaster]

I like the first one best, MagicalMaster.  Nice work.

 

Thanks.  Are you able to articulate why?  For example, three general categories would be...

 

1, using multiple elemental VFXs.

2, staggering timing so the explosion grows

3, explosion lasting for a longer amount of time

 

If it's simply #3, for example, it would be easy to make either of the other 2 simply last longer.

 

My vote is for the second.  The first seems to be overdoing things with a chain reaction feel.  The blue part (is that from great thunderclap?) also gives the feel that it is putting out the explosion in the first one, while being part of the explosion in the second.

 

There's a Great Thunderclap visual at the center of the first but it doesn't even exist in the second.  The second is purely fireball/lightning explosion (because I was told the Great Thunderclap part didn't look "hellbally").

[MagicalMaster]

Added a fourth idea someone wanted me to try creating.

[Shadooow]

neither... seeing this I might try to fix the hellball again (so far two unsuccessful days trying to fix it...)

[MagicalMaster]

Ouch!

 

I jest, I definitely prefer the default visual effect...but it crashing the game 10% of the time or whatever simply isn't acceptable.  Would be awesome if you figured out a reasonable way to fix it.

[Shadooow]

Ouch!

 

I jest, I definitely prefer the default visual effect...but it crashing the game 10% of the time or whatever simply isn't acceptable.  Would be awesome if you figured out a reasonable way to fix it.

i was trying to remove some parts of the model it till it stops crashing but unsuccesfully so far

[leo_x]

I think these are all cool, definitely worth using.  Have you considered making a library of epic visual/spell effects?  Video 1, attempt 1 strikes me as a little bit too like a fireworks show in the spacing and pacing of VFXs.  I like video 1, attempt 2 and the pillars the best, because the VFXs look more connected to a single radiating impact.  In the case of the pillars, I also like the overall duration since that will help space damage impacts/knockdown effects/saves/etc if there are lot of targets.

 

Someone on Higher Ground did a replacement Hellball model (that's where I first saw it anyway): https://dl.dropboxus...ff_hellball.mdl  I never tried it, but it's worth a look too.

[Shadooow]

Someone on Higher Ground did a replacement Hellball model (that's where I first saw it anyway): https://dl.dropboxus...ff_hellball.mdl  I never tried it, but it's worth a look too.

I checked that one recently and its even less hellball looking than MM's attempts. Its not hellball but different effect. I don't saying that this or MM vfx are ugly or bad, just don't look like the original hellball.

[Verilazic]

I kinda like the fourth one best, except that like you said in that video, it feels maybe a little too random. It does feel like an improvement over the first, what with the first feeling too much like a chain reaction as WhiZard said.

 

Is there any way to keep the original sound at least? That might help a bit with the feel...

[HipMaestro]

#1A.

 

The one in the second video, the pillar one, seems... uhh... kinda "busy" to me.  Haven't checked the 4th one yet but will.  TBH, the original hellball always seemed a bit overdone to me anyway so I have no qualms about making the spell animation more reliable in any way you can.  Thanks for the effort, MM

 

BTW, have you been able to figure out which part of the animation is causing the crashing?  TBH, hellball has never crashed any of my SP modules where I was playing an arcanist high enough to select the feat.  Can't say about server play, though, as I seldom design once-and-done offensive epic spells into my toons.  Also never noticed it causing any problem on a server when others cast it.  Wonder if vanilla- vs. CEP-based (or other hakked) environments makes any difference?  

[MagicalMaster]

Have you considered making a library of epic visual/spell effects?

 

I haven't, but I suppose I could if people had ideas.

 

I like video 1, attempt 2 and the pillars the best, because the VFXs look more connected to a single radiating impact.  In the case of the pillars, I also like the overall duration since that will help space damage impacts/knockdown effects/saves/etc if there are lot of targets.

 

Would you prefer to see attempt 2 (video 1 second half) with radiating impact versus single blast and a longer duration?

 

I kinda like the fourth one best, except that like you said in that video, it feels maybe a little too random.

 

Is there any way to keep the original sound at least? That might help a bit with the feel...

 

Yeah, I may fiddle with the fourth and make it random but less random.

 

I'm not sure on the sound.  By default the sound and visual are all tied into a single defined VFX that Bioware made.  Would have to presumably try to extract the sound somehow.

 

BTW, have you been able to figure out which part of the animation is causing the crashing?  TBH, hellball has never crashed any of my SP modules where I was playing an arcanist high enough to select the feat.  Can't say about server play, though, as I seldom design once-and-done offensive epic spells into my toons.  Also never noticed it causing any problem on a server when others cast it.  Wonder if vanilla- vs. CEP-based (or other hakked) environments makes any difference?  

 

If it crashes, it crashes as soon as the animation begins.  I set up a testing script that just repeatedly played the animation over and over again every 3 seconds until the game crashed and tracked how many times it occurred.  This is in a tiny module, single player, no haks.  Here are my results:

 

55, 197, 199, 7, 32, 6, 31

[The Amethyst Dragon]

I am honestly liking #1, #3, and now #4. 

 

All look suitably epic enough to be called "Hellball"...#1 and #4 better fit the "ball" part of the name.  Leaning more strongly towards #4 because it looks a bit less graphics-intensive for players than #1. #3 (pillars/columns) may just warrant creation of an all new epic spell.

 

For sound, the original hellball explosion sound would be found listed in visualeffects.2da. I'd just copy that value over to your new entry.  If you're building the big explosion from multiple existing VFXs (and using a script to run it instead of everything in one VFX model), you could make copies of those other VFXs in the 2da, just without their own sound effect.

[MagicalMaster]

Yeah, right now this is just using scripts to combine different VFXs.  Super easy for people to plug into stuff without messing with 2das, just copy/paste or important a script and call a library function.

 

So theoretically, for the 2da stuff, I'd need new VFX entries that are copies but with no sound...then what do I attach the the Hellball sound to?  Some invisible (or non-visible) VFX that gets called once at the start of the explosion?

[HipMaestro]

 

If it crashes, it crashes as soon as the animation begins.  I set up a testing script that just repeatedly played the animation over and over again every 3 seconds until the game crashed and tracked how many times it occurred.  This is in a tiny module, single player, no haks.  Here are my results:

 

55, 197, 199, 7, 32, 6, 31

 

Just curious.  What video card and driver are you testing it with?  I'd be interested to see if test results varied from nVidia to ATI  (not that any difference would or should influence the effort to address the global community rather than a hardware subgroup).

 

Also, I'd like to amend my original preference to #1 & #4.  Actually, I think #4 is very good and more Hellball-ish even than #1.  To me.

[MagicalMaster]

NVidia GeForce GTX 460 SE.  Used to have a laptop with an nVidia 9700M or something like that.  Same issue on both computers.

 

Desktop's driver is 337.88 at the moment.

 

Sounds like #4 is popular and I should refine it to be less random and clean it up a bit.

[The Amethyst Dragon]

So theoretically, for the 2da stuff, I'd need new VFX entries that are copies but with no sound...then what do I attach the the Hellball sound to?  Some invisible (or non-visible) VFX that gets called once at the start of the explosion?

Yup.

[Aelis Eine]

I think what's hard to see here is that there's no hostile targets so you're kind of limited in where you can put the VFX. Try experimenting with a field of hostile training dummies, then you can play with other effects like beams or lightning bolts arcing towards targets from the center and VFX_IMP effects on the targets themselves. I see Lightning and Fire but not a lot of Cold and Acid so it doesn't really reflect what Hellball does, although that's understandably due to the game's lack of those visuals.

[WhiZard]

 I see Lightning and Fire but not a lot of Cold and Acid so it doesn't really reflect what Hellball does, although that's understandably due to the game's lack of those visuals.

 

Sonic, not cold.  And it is easy to call some of the howl animations (which I think are used in #4) sonic.

[MagicalMaster]

Yeah, I'm using Sonic/Fire/Lightning visuals, only missing Acid.  I tried using howl but I didn't really like it.  #1 and #4 only use the Mystic Explosion from Great Thunderclap.

 

There's not really any good acid visuals, sadly.  Small impacts and a small acid arrow mainly.

[WhiZard]

There's not really any good acid visuals, sadly.  Small impacts and a small acid arrow mainly.

 

I know AoEs are expensive, but a few cloud of bewilderment hazes could give the impression of acid and leave a fading debris feeling after the explosion.

[leo_x]

I haven't, but I suppose I could if people had ideas.

 

Just an idea.  You've made some cool stuff, both here and your module.  If you enjoy making them, I can't imagine there wouldn't be users.

 

Would you prefer to see attempt 2 (video 1 second half) with radiating impact versus single blast and a longer duration?

 

I think it would be interesting to see, but I don't want to nitpick.  I would say a good duration would be something proportional to the time from cast to impact from a typical distance, say 20 meters.  Original Hellball is visually present for I'd say a almost a full round.

[MagicalMaster]

I know AoEs are expensive, but a few cloud of bewilderment hazes could give the impression of acid and leave a fading debris feeling after the explosion.

 

Perhaps.  May play around with it.

 

Just an idea.  You've made some cool stuff, both here and your module.  If you enjoy making them, I can't imagine there wouldn't be users.

 

I wouldn't say I enjoy it, really.  More that I needed the visuals so I created them.  I don't sit around daydreaming about making visuals, I sit around daydreaming about using the visuals for something.

 

I think it would be interesting to see, but I don't want to nitpick.  I would say a good duration would be something proportional to the time from cast to impact from a typical distance, say 20 meters.  Original Hellball is visually present for I'd say a almost a full round.

 

Well, *I* want you to nitpick!  Iterative development.  I throw some ideas together that are very different, get feedback on them, and adjust stuff according or create new ideas.  This is precisely the time *to* "nitpick!"  I could have made all of the original visuals expanding or present for a set amount of time but I wanted people's reaction to ideas that are substantially different.

 

Original Hellball is about 3-4 seconds total, for reference.

[Grani]

I never really noticed any problem with Hellball visuals, though I like the second version you came up with the most. It's simple, certainly does look powerful, yet without the overdose of effects.